Pope enrages muslim world, inspires death threats by suggesting Islam not peaceful

[Don Corleone]

Hmm, imagine that. The Pope gives a speech where he explicitly states that holy war, be it a crusade or a jihad.... religious violence of any kind is incompatible with the nature of God. As part of the speech, he offers a quote from a dialogue between a 14th century Byzantine Emperor and a Persian scholar, in which Manuel II Paleologus states that the only thing Islam has brought to the world that is unique is jihad, which is unholy.

Now I can understand hurt feelings and strongly worded disagreement. But the reaction to the Pope's speech has lost all bounds of reason. Muslims rioting against implication that they're violent...

Among other incidents include a bombing at a Greek Orthodox church (and if anybody has had it in for the Papacy through the centuries, it would be the Greek Orthodox church).

So, basically, if you want to start a riot, suggest that Muslims are violent? Doesn't that make the statement true?

I can understand the argument that Pope was painting with a broad brush, but surely the Pakistani National Assembly and the Supreme Imam of Turkey have bigger things to worry about then what the aging, ignored leader of a failing religion that is having secular legal issues in most of the countries it operates in has to say about them... If they really wanted to show Pope Benedict XVI how irrelevant he truly is, they should have ignored him, or quietly rebuffed his comments as the insane ramblings of a man out of touch. Surely the Muslim world is imbuing him with an importance that simply isn't there any more.

[Silver Rusher]

[lancelot]

This is sooo sooo funny!! The only thing funnier than people rioting over anger at Islam being called violent is that the idiots obviously fail to see the irony in that!

Thank you Islam...you have cheered up my day...

Seriously, it does make you wonder about the general IQ of some people...

@Don
I couldnt get that link to work...might be me though...

[Keba]

And that is religion for you ...

Does it really surprise anyone by now?

Although, there's a lesson to be learned here ... the next time someone calls you violent, punch his lights out. That'll teach him not to spread lies about you ...

[lancelot]

Although, there's a lesson to be learned here ... the next time someone calls you aggressive, punch his lights out.

LOL!...well said.

[Leet Eriksson]

that image is fake.

As always the entire ordeal is as stupid as jyllands-posten debacle. But thanks to the pope friday attendance at mosques has increased now

[GoreBag]

This guy MUST have a wicked sense of humour.

[yesdachi]

Muslims rioting against implication that they're violent...

While wiping blood from an infidel’s beheading off his hands what? I don’t get it?

[Leet Eriksson]

Muslims rioting against implication that they're violent...

While wiping blood from an infidel’s beheading off his hands what? I don’t get it?

what?

oh snap, i have to clean my cleaver and hide that infidels head i recently beheaded

Can't you people think for 5 minutes not every muslim is a maniac that beheads people?

[Don Corleone]

what?

oh snap, i have to clean my cleaver and hide that infidels head i recently beheaded

Can't you people think for 5 minutes not every muslim is a maniac that beheads people?

I can and do. But rioting because some over-the-hill head of a religion that even it's 'dedicated followers' don't really listen to is not the way to prove how calm and rational the average muslim is.

My apologies to anyone offended by my original description of the Pope. He's not one of my favorite people, and promoting Cardinal Law has done nothing to endear him to me.

[Vladimir]

what?

oh snap, i have to clean my cleaver and hide that infidels head i recently beheaded

Can't you people think for 5 minutes not every muslim is a maniac that beheads people?

Can't you think for 5 minutes that they're not calling every muslim a maniac.

[Silver Rusher]

I can and do. But rioting because some over-the-hill head of a religion that even it's 'dedicated followers' don't really listen to is not the way to prove how calm and rational the average muslim is.

I saw this post before you edited it. And believe me, those comments put you far, far below the level of the Pope. I shan't utter those words here though.

[Samurai Waki]

The next time the Pope talks about Islam, I strongly suggest that he Proclaim himself God-King of the Sea People and that if anyone makes threats against the Holy Sanctity of his established position, then he'll send out his Corsairs to deal with the problem... the sad part is, is while the rest of the World would think he is crazy, Islamicists might believe him.

[Blodrast]

And that is religion for you ...

Does it really surprise anyone by now?

Although, there's a lesson to be learned here ... the next time someone calls you violent, punch his lights out. That'll teach him not to spread lies about you ...

eh.... broad sweeping generalizations again...
That's NOT religion. That's fanatics, fundamentalists, zealots. Quite a difference.

[Pindar]

"(X and Y) have bigger things to worry about then what the aging, ignored leader of a failing religion..."

"I can and do. But rioting because some over-the-hill head of a religion that even it's 'dedicated followers' don't really listen to is not the way to prove how calm and rational the average muslim is."

My apologies to anyone offended by my original description of the Pope. He's not one of my favorite people, and promoting Cardinal Law has done nothing to endear him to me.

I don't understand the hostility here.

[Kanamori]

One incident of some being violent is not evidence of all muslims always being violent. Then again, depending on your definition of muslim, it certainly shows that some of them cannot be peaceful, denying the contrary statement that muslims are peaceful.

[Don Corleone]

I don't understand the hostility here.

I have a big issue with the way the Catholic Church has borrowed a few tricks from Cosa Nostra on how to keep the whole buggery scandal quiet, and freaks like Geoghan and Shanley out in the field. One of the primary defenders of the pervs was Cardinal Bernard Law, who, as somebody that's dedicated their lives to the legal system, you should resent more than I. If Cardinal Law was anybody else then the figurehead of Catholicism in Boston, he would have been thrown in jail on numerous counts of obstruction of justice, witness tampering, extortion, bribery and numerous other felonies. Instead, he got recalled to Rome, where his old buddy Ratzenberger (aka Benedict XVI) saw to it that he was named Pastor in Residence of the Basillica of St. Mary Major. This represented if anything a promotion within the Vatican, as he was now stationed permanently within the Vatican and was able to maintain his title as Cardinal.

Hostility? Hundreds of molested children that Law pimped out to his priests. It's the reason I became a Methodist.

[lancelot]

eh.... broad sweeping generalizations again...
That's NOT religion. That's fanatics, fundamentalists, zealots. Quite a difference.

Oh come on...when a riot usually takes place it can very well be a large proportion of the average citizens that get stirred up, it certainly doesnt have to be the fanatics and what not...so did all the zealots and fanatics club together especially for this riot?

[caravel]

that image is fake.

As always the entire ordeal is as stupid as jyllands-posten debacle. But thanks to the pope friday attendance at mosques has increased now

The image is indeed fake. The real message was: "behead those who insult islam". This was part of the london demonstrations against the Jyllands-Posten cartoons.

[lancelot]

The real message was: "behead those who insult islam".

Oh thats much better then...

...no wait, hang on a minute...

checking...


checking...


Nope- still sick and wrong

[Pindar]

I have a big issue with the way the Catholic Church has borrowed a few tricks from Cosa Nostra on how to keep the whole buggery scandal quiet, and freaks like Geoghan and Shanley out in the field. One of the primary defenders of the pervs was Cardinal Bernard Law, who, as somebody that's dedicated their lives to the legal system, you should resent more than I. If Cardinal Law was anybody else then the figurehead of Catholicism in Boston, he would have been thrown in jail on numerous counts of obstruction of justice, witness tampering, extortion, bribery and numerous other felonies. Instead, he got recalled to Rome, where his old buddy Ratzenberger (aka Benedict XVI) saw to it that he was named Pastor in Residence of the Basillica of St. Mary Major. This represented if anything a promotion within the Vatican, as he was now stationed permanently within the Vatican and was able to maintain his title as Cardinal.

Hostility? Hundreds of molested children that Law pimped out to his priests. It's the reason I became a Methodist.

I see. So the Pope is ignored and over-the-hill and Catholicism itself is a failing religion because of the evils done by some Priests in the U.S.? Hmmm.

[Leet Eriksson]

I can and do. But rioting because some over-the-hill head of a religion that even it's 'dedicated followers' don't really listen to is not the way to prove how calm and rational the average muslim is.

My apologies to anyone offended by my original description of the Pope. He's not one of my favorite people, and promoting Cardinal Law has done nothing to endear him to me.

The thing is, every protest is now called a riot when the protestors are muslims?

Besides the bombing of an orthodox church carried by a few fanatics, what makes you think that these protests are what an average muslim thinks?

[GoreBag]

Smart move by the Pope. Muslim hypocrisy has never been so blatantly obvious.

Haha, what, the pope personally gains through this reaction?

"Yes...good..."

[Don Corleone]

The evils I speak of are not those done by Shanley and Geoghan themselves. The evil of pedophilia appears everywhere.... with parents, physicians, Rabbis, ministers, teachers, scout leaders... anybody who has access to children. The only thing that makes the Roman Catholic Church unique in this regard is that while everyone else tries their damndest to root the pedophiles out and bar their access to children, the entire organization, including those at the highest levels, dedicate themselves to using whatever means necessary, including threats of excommunication, to silence the accusers and move the violators into new and fertile hunting grounds. In that, they are so far away from their mission, their very existence makes me question the existence of God.

But you asked me why the vitriol, not why I think they are a failing religion.

Go to any of the traditional strongholds of the Roman Catholic faith: France, Italy, Southern Germany, Ireland, East Coast USA, Austria, etc. Less than 20% attendance, and less than 5% by people under 40. Does that sound like a thriving, prospering religion to you? They've had to pay out so much in monetary settlements that they're selling church property and closing parishes across the Northeast USA, traditionally their richest dioceses. The only place they still have a following is in third world countries, and it's been shown that as nations improve their standards of living (Brazil, Argentina) people either move to Protestant faiths or quit Christianity all together.

The Roman Catholic Church itself will tell you if you press hard enough that they are an Aristocracy. The term 'princes of the church' bestowed upon Cardinals is not slang, it's a title. They view themselves as nobility and the rest of us are peasants. It's an outdated, out of touch institution that is going under (and not quickly enough in my book).

I am a devout Christian, but frankly, somedays I have to wonder if I'm not just believing wives tales when the Lord of Hosts allows men such as Law to blaspheme in His name and excommunicate children to silence them.

[Don Corleone]

The thing is, every protest is now called a riot when the protestors are muslims?

Besides the bombing of an orthodox church carried by a few fanatics, what makes you think that these protests are what an average muslim thinks?

Burning the Pope in effigy and letting off a bomb at an Eastern Orthodox community center in Gaza are hardly peaceful protesting.

[Silver Rusher]

The image is indeed fake. The real message was: "behead those who insult islam". This was part of the london demonstrations against the Jyllands-Posten cartoons.

Of course it is. You just need to have a look at the V to see how worse-than-photoshopped it is. But I posted the pic because it seemed appropriate.

Anyway. The Pope says Islam is violent because of the actions of a few terrorists. Don Corleone says Catholicism is about buggery because of the actions of a few American priests. Can you see a difference? I can. The difference is that the PC society allows people to insult catholics and get away scot-free whereas insulting Islam not only brings you to burning embassies, violent protests and even more terrorist attacks but also gets you shot down by others who are not Muslim.

(and DC, don't try to defend it with untrue spouts of 'I never said that'; as I said before, I saw what you posted before the edit. Oh, and I may have said I will never utter those words here but you continued with the subject of buggery anyway so I might as well)

[GoreBag]

No, but the Muslim Extremists--perhaps the entire Muslim Community--loses face by this rioutous and (to be honest) laughable reaction.

Whatever you say. I sincerely doubt that it affects anything real and tangible, even if they have 'lost face'. We all know that they were reactionaries anyway.

[Leet Eriksson]

Burning the Pope in effigy and letting off a bomb at an Eastern Orthodox community center in Gaza are hardly peaceful protesting.

1 incident, the bombing of a church, somewhere in someplace we don't know carried out by a minority group.

Hardly represents most of the protests. And burning effigy's was done since what the 1980's? thats hardly an incident were anyone would feel insulted.

[Keba]

Well, technically, the Pope didn't say Islam was violent ... he merely quoted Manuel II, and that guy said it. That's if you feel like nitpicking.

@Bloodrast: That post wasn't intended to be serious ... I thought that the lesson learned bit would make that obvious.

[Don Corleone]

SilverRusher, my issue is not with the buggery itself. Sadly, that shows up everywhere, and yes, you're right, it was a few American priests.

My issue is much deeper... the hypocricy and the sheer evil of an organization that would threaten children with excommunication for going to the police with their stories. Before you go defending the bigwigs of the Church and how it was only a couple of priests, you really ought to go do some research into how many times offending priests have been reassigned. Go read about the Navajo mission in Northwestern New Mexico. Read about Shanley joining NAFTA, and Law telling him not that his desires were evil, but that he ought not to be so public about them.

I did say some nasty things about Ratzinger, and I hold to them. I edited them not because I don't stand behind them, but because I don't think I need to offend practicing Catholics in this dialogue, and I'll pick one, maybe two boogeymen per thread (and Ratzingers Nazi ties are yet another thread).