If you could add just one more faction it would be...

[Prince of the Poodles]

Yes but they lost with Polish - Lithuanian army at Grunwald (this is the correct name for "Tannenberg" in medieval times - Tannenberg was in I World War).

They fought with mongols? Are you joking? They never even touched a single mongol warrior. When Poland needed help to protect christians only templars arrived and czech army was coming as reinforcements to merge huge army (they didn't come in time).

So you can see polish ruler gave them a territory to protect, when they will destroy aggressive prussian tribe (Poland didn't have enough soldiers to defend from many sides). This was "help" but it changed into worse situation, because Teutonic order falsified many documents (right to territories) and attacked official christian allies. For me there were nothing more than thief knights.

Hey man, I dont know how you could carry a grudge over events that happened 600 years ago, but I just thought they'd be a cool faction considering their location, possible "units" that could be created, and the role they played in the geopolitics of the region.

As for whether Teutonics ever fought Mongols, that seems to be disputed.

[LadyAnn]

Which one is the predominent muslim faction in the Gulf pf Persia region just before Mongol Invasion (13th century)? Bagdad or Persia?

It would be fun to play them if they are not in. Had the Mongol not invaded and destroy a Muslim state at its height, things may be slightly different today.

Anniep

[Redtemplar]

It isn't grudge my forum interlocutor. These are facts. Hitler had the same motivation as the Teutonic Order (and that was 60 years ago not 600 years ago). History is always the same, but sometimes people like to forget about conclusions from the past. You would understand that if you would live near HRE, Teutonic order, I,II, III Reich etc. - it was always the same behavior.

[Kavhan Isbul]

Redtemplar, you have either lived in the 14th century and witnessed all the "horrible deeds of the Teutons", or read taken "Crusaders" by Senkeevich too much to heart. Just a question: if you dislike the Teutons so much, wouldn't you want them in the game so that you can have the pleasure of destroying them on the field of battle and then retaking Prussia for the Poles?

[Sun of Chersonesos]

to be honest though, you can add 6 faction since there is 30 faction slot. consequently i would add the following:-

The Irish

The Coastal Empire of Cilicia

Bulgaria

Croatia

Saudi Arabia (or a nice good historical name of a tribe or something that existed there, i want a faction that can hold the area around RTW : Dumatha, east of egypt which is modern day saudi arabia)

The Niger Empire

The Cumans

[Aracnid]

I didn't realise they didn't put Aragonin until I saw it on the list, I can't believe they took it out. No offense but what were they thinking, Aragon was a major player in Medieval Europe and vital in the reconquest. I do hope someone does a mod and puts them in.

Of all the nations that weren't in orginally I would like to have Burgundy, because they were a key English ally and had a quite a bit of potential.

[Martok]

to be honest though, you can add 6 faction since there is 30 faction slot.

Uh, since when? I know that CA said they would try to raise the faction limit to 30 (from the current 21), but I have yet to see anything that confirms that they've actually done so. As far as we know, the faction limit is still stuck at 21.

I didn't realise they didn't put Aragonin until I saw it on the list, I can't believe they took it out. No offense but what were they thinking, Aragon was a major player in Medieval Europe and vital in the reconquest. I do hope someone does a mod and puts them in.

It sounds as if the Portuguese were added to give players their traditional 3-way war on the Iberian peninsula (in MTW it was the Almohads, Aragon, and Spanish) in lieu of the Aragonese. While I think I understand why CA did this, I still believe that Aragon would've been much more of a logical choice, as they were one of the two major Catholic powers in northern Spain (Castille-Leon being the other one). Portugal wasn't as significant a kingdom until later on in the medieval period.

Of all the nations that weren't in orginally I would like to have Burgundy, because they were a key English ally and had a quite a bit of potential.

Don't they have the same problem as the Golden Horde & Timurids, however (in that they wouldn't appear at the beginning of the game period)? I thought Burgundy wasn't really a significant power in the European world until the time of the Hundred Years War.

[Redtemplar]

Kavhan Isbul you have some point, but HRE has already teutonic units and I see no reason to include them in Medieval, although it would be better when Lithuanian would be included with them (Lithuanian fought with teutonics as the poland did). So I would dreamed about adding both factions (lithuanians conquered many kingdoms on the east including Russ (not russians)).

"Just a question: if you dislike the Teutons so much, wouldn't you want them in the game so that you can have the pleasure of destroying them on the field of battle and then retaking Prussia for the Poles?" - well this would be interesting, but I say only with Lithuanians (included in polish faction, but it would be better if they were another faction).

"..."Crusaders" by Senkeevich too much to heart" - well this and that my ancestors fought with them :)

[Aracnid]

You right in that Burgundy didn't really come along until later and for all we know it is allready included as an emerging faction that might break off for France, so I can see why they haven't put it in.
A fourth Muslim faction would also be good because IMPO the Muslim nations are too united in MTW (who knows about MTW2). In my experience it is quite rare to see Muslim-Muslim wars in MTW while in reality there was quite a lot of infighting and wars between not only the various caliphates but also the Shia's and Sunni's.

[antiwup]

Teutonics Knights arent really a faction but field level military with an organization to boot. i would like some baghdad caliphate so i can crush baghdad and take it over.

[Duncan_Hardy]

Given that the new incarnation of M:TW extends well into the Renaissance/Reformation era (ending with François Ier's Italian wars), it is a travesty on the part of CA not to have included the Swiss Confederation.

Not that I'm biased or anything () but playing an alternate history where Switzerland used her military prowess to conquer the other powers rather than fight for them would be a dream come true.

[Aracnid]

Actually yeah, Aragon is a major omission but Switzerland is even more important in the central European balance of power. leaving it out is really odd. There are quite a few nations that are included that are less important than these two. Damn I need a few more votes.

[Tempiic]

Switzerland wasnt important much as a country. How you mean they had an impact on central european powerbalance?

[Duncan_Hardy]

Switzerland wasnt important much as a country. How you mean they had an impact on central european powerbalance?

Nonsense.... and blasphemy! Switzerland played a major role in defining 15th and early 16th century Europe, both directly (through their involvement in the Burgundian Wars and the French Italian campaigns) and indirectly (as mercenaries in the armies of most major powers at the time).

Swiss military tactics were also a primary factor in bringing about the decline of heavy cavalry.

[Martok]

Nonsense.... and blasphemy! Switzerland played a major role in defining 15th and early 16th century Europe, both directly (through their involvement in the Burgundian Wars and the French Italian campaigns) and indirectly (as mercenaries in the armies of most major powers at the time).

Which makes the Swiss as an illogical choice for an additional faction as the Teutonic Order, Burgundians, and Golden Horde. None of these were major players until the later part of the Middle Ages; and since CA chose to not include Eras this time around (unlike MTW), it wouldn't make any sense to add them.

Overall, Aragon, the Baghdad Caliphate, the Cumans, and Kiev are probably the factions that would make the most sense to add (were the faction limit to be expanded beyond the current 21). Keep in mind that I'm talking in terms of gameplay, and that I'm not bashing the historical significance of anyone's chosen faction here.

[Tempiic]

Nonsense.... and blasphemy! Switzerland played a major role in defining 15th and early 16th century Europe, both directly (through their involvement in the Burgundian Wars and the French Italian campaigns) and indirectly (as mercenaries in the armies of most major powers at the time).

Swiss military tactics were also a primary factor in bringing about the decline of heavy cavalry.

But still nothing more than a handfull of battles by Switzerland...

Mind you, I am not disagreeing with the capabilities of Swiss warriors/soldiers, who should be included in the game. But as mercenaries. Not as a Swiss Faction. Their warriors/soldiers had a noticable impact. Their country simply had not.

[Aracnid]

yeah you might be right fair enough

1. Aragon
2. Baghdad Caliphate
3. Kiev

[Duncan_Hardy]

Which makes the Swiss as an illogical choice for an additional faction as the Teutonic Order, Burgundians, and Golden Horde. None of these were major players until the later part of the Middle Ages; and since CA chose to not include Eras this time around (unlike MTW), it wouldn't make any sense to add them.

Overall, Aragon, the Baghdad Caliphate, the Cumans, and Kiev are probably the factions that would make the most sense to add (were the faction limit to be expanded beyond the current 21). Keep in mind that I'm talking in terms of gameplay, and that I'm not bashing the historical significance of anyone's chosen faction here.

In that case the faction system in M2:TW is flawed, since it is skewed towards peoples who existed as an entity c.1050, while eliminating potentially more influential factions who may only have come into being at a later date. An emergence system would solve this problem (much like the appearance of the Golden Hord in M:TW).

[Aracnid]

I haven't been paying attention to it but I assumed that the Mongol emergence would happen like it did in MTW1, after all it probably had more effect on eastern Europe than any other event in the entire Medieval period, though the Crusades are up there. Sure it didn't have all that much effect on the Atlantic coast, but the only nations that weren't affected were England, France and Spain. The North African states were effected by the annhilation of the Muslim heartlands, Italy was affected by the same things and everyone else had to fight them!

[Kavhan Isbul]

In that case the faction system in M2:TW is flawed, since it is skewed towards peoples who existed as an entity c.1050, while eliminating potentially more influential factions who may only have come into being at a later date. An emergence system would solve this problem (much like the appearance of the Golden Hord in M:TW).

Unfortunately I do not see how this will solve the problem, as even if factions emerge as they did in MTW, they would not be playable. I agree with you that not only does this make the game skewed towards peoples that existed in the late 11th century, but it also takes away fromt he game itself. I really hope that eras in the manner of MTW would be reintroduced in the expansion. When I think about it, it was quite possible to achieve a victory in MTW by the mid 13th century, before gunpowder was discovered and sometimes before even the arrival of the Horde. This of course meant that so many of the cool late period units seldom appeared, and after the first 150 turns the human player was usually the only super power left, meaning that the AI continued producing cheap early units, as it simply did not have the buildings necessary for the better later types. However, starting at a later date introduced a completely different game, in which not only the factions were different, but the units and the whole setting.
I am sure this must have been improved in M2TW, because otherwise prolonging the game until 1530 and introducing the New World with its Aztecs would make no sense. What point is there to play just so that you discover the Americas in the late 15th century, if you have conquered everything in the mid 13th? I am confident CA have tested the game and this will not be the case.

[Motep]

I voted aragon, as I have nice memories of tyhem from medieval 1.

[Martok]

@Duncan_Hardy & Kavhan Isbul: I concur that the faction system (as it currently stands) is somewhat flawed in Medieval 2. With Eras not being in the sequel, it essentially limits the game's factions to those that were major players only in the early part of the period, at the expense of those that appeared and/or rose to power later on (Golden Horde, Burgundians, Portuguese, etc.). I can only guess that CA made this design decision so as to avoid confusing and/or overwhelming new players; and while I understand that, it does end up shafting the rest of us that feel that greater variety is a good thing.

[LadyAnn]

I just had that idea to play the Order of Knights Templar as a faction :)

Annie

[Martok]

I just had that idea to play the Order of Knights Templar as a faction :)

Annie

Bah. You just want to fight with them in multiplayer--admit it.

[Redtemplar]

It would be interesting :) but they can be only "mercenary faction" or "suddenly appearing faction". It would be difficult to place them in game as faction. In multi it is more real.

[LadyAnn]

Why is it different than any other factions in the game? The Order did own territories (Malta and Rhodes Islands) and if one may stretch it a bit, the we can make the Order own Jerusalem. The time of emergence: the First Crusade. The army of the Templar: a cruisade army. Just need to mod so that until certain time, the Order recruits could pass through other catholic faction without problem. Also, we need to mod so that the other factions would allow the order to setup centers on their land, or devise ways to have tax flows into the order.
The order could also have income through trade, which they actually did historically control.

Anyways, to dispell any myth, I do play SP, just I was bored quickly. And no, unless the Templar as an MP faction is not another catholic faction, I don't want to play them.

Anniep