The main thread - Pike and Musket TW - MTW2 edition

OiM forum is quite active, though currently there is less spectacular progress - orders, other sounds etc.

I am a member of the OiM team, so I know what I am saying.



Cossack case - I had a big problem with them, but I decided to make them mercenary/regional units for NOW.
IN 1570 they were still on the margin of the Commonwealth with amore autonomy than Don Cossacks, but too few to make them independent.

The fact decided why they are not a faction.

They will be available to Poland, to Russia after some sort of event or a structure is build either in Russia or in Poland - e.g. the stronger colonisation of Ukraine triggered first rebellions - also to the Ottomans (protectorate-like structure) and as mercenaries to the Balcan states andother factions too.



I think the idea of 'faction patches' will be pretty good to allow more choice e.g. Cossack faction patch, Ragusa faction patch, Montenegrin, Irish etc, but this is for the future. I think the faction patch will generally use Circassian entry since it was rather isolated country.

The faction patches will also change the timeframe slightly e.g. Irish one will start during either the Desmonds rebellion or the Grand rebellion of Tyrone.

The idea is to make the bulk of the factions for now.

This is how generally the map should be looking in the mod.

NOTE the number of provinces will be much smaller, but the map gives you some idea how large is 'the world' of the mod.

Thank you very much, I really like the map. I take it the blank areas are uninhabitable?

I'm glad to hear about the possibility of more factions in the future also.

Good luck,

Antagonist

That looks awfully like the EU (EU2, EU3...) map. This is a Good Thing.

Wow very nice map Cegorach.
I take it that colonisation will be a large part of the game, which is great!
Looks like Russia, the Ottomans and Spain and Britain will have the potential to recreate their enormous empires - very nice map.

Question though, will all of it be "uncovered" from the start, or will it be trigered at a certain turn like the Americas in M2:TW?

Also, how do you plan to simulate the establishment of colonial settlements? The current system of taking over cities doesn't seem to quite fit. Perhaps have a script that converts the settlement's culture and gives a large population boost when a "colonial" faction takes over a certain region.

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just very excited about this mod - can't wait:D

cegorach

5. Hugenots

Check spell… Huguenots.

7. The Netherlands

United Provinces is historical accurate. The Netherlands is from 1815.

8. Hapburg HRE

Check spell… Habsburg. And it’s better Habsburgs than Habsburg HRE.

10. Danemark

Check spell… Denmark.

18. Uzbek Khorde

Check spell… Horde.

19. Persia

I like this. Safavid Persia! If you need some info, say as I moded Europa Universalis 2 (especially them, they were my favorite faction).

20. Mughal Empire

Another excellent choice.

25. Songhai Empire

They were irrelevant in 1570 and soon fall under Morocco (1591).
Better to include Savoy. They can be great buffer between Austria and France.
Or if you want faction in Africa then Kingdom of Sennar.

I also have info about Balkan (Montenegro, Serbia, Military Frontier). And because I moded Europa Universalis I have many data about this period.
Plus I have excellent book “Rise of Europe 1450-1789” by Dragoljub Živojinović, Službeni list, Belgrade, 2003. Dragoljub Živojinović is the best Serbian historian of pre-modern and modern era. Book has 492 pages and covers everything in three parts. For Pike and Musket TW - MTW2 edition most important is Second part (1598-1713):
I. Economy and society
II. Religious life
III. Military and war
IV. Rebellions and uprisings
V. Theory and politics
VI. Science and art
VII. Thirty’s Year War
VIII. France
IX. England
X. Spain
XI. The Netherlands
XII. Northern Europe
XIII. Russia and Ottoman Empire


About map – you know that 200 provinces is limit. Map is brilliant in Europa Universalis style.

Originally Posted by Epistolary Rishard

descr_events.txt
Events can now be included in both this file and the campaign script file – with a new event that allows us to trigger a script off an event happen and increment other events at the same time. A lot of the stuff in there for M2 should be very useful for us in adding new campaign dynamics and storylines and I can tell you as a scripter that I am very excited by it all!

Because Epistolary Richard confirmed that events will be very modable I wrote largest disasters in Europe between 1570 and 1700. That would add diversity to mod.

Great epidemic happened in Italy in 1574-5.
Large starvation happened in Italy, Spain and southern France in 1590-1.
Great epidemic and starvation happened in Spain in 1597-1602.
Great epidemic happened in Switzerland 1610 and 1615, Germany 1623-4, Netherlands 1634-5 and northern Italy in 1630 and 1656-7.
Great bubonic plague happened in Ottoman Empire in 1661 and spread into whole Europe: Netherlands 1663-4, London 1665 and Austria 1668.
Great plague happened in Bohemia, Austria and Hungary in 1680 (30 000 inhabitants of Prague died).
Great fires happened in Magdeburg 1631, London 1666 and Palatinate 1688.


Largest cities in Europe

In the beginning of XVI century 5 cities have more than 100 000 inhabitants: Istanbul, Milan, Naples, Paris and Venice.

In the end of XVI century some of those cities doubled their number of inhabitants and another eight cities reached 100 000 inhabitants: Antwerp, Lisbon, London, Marseille, Messina, Moscow, Palermo, Rome and Seville.


Religions:

Roman Catholic
Protestant
Orthodox
Sunni
Shiite
Pagan
Hindu
Judaism

Around 1600 is counted that in Europe lived 42 millions of Roman Catholics, 28 millions Protestants and 28 millions Orthodox Christians (including Russia and Ottoman Empire).

[QUOTE=slav frunze]

Question though, will all of it be "uncovered" from the start, or will it be trigered at a certain turn like the Americas in M2:TW?

Most likely all territories will be uncovered from the beginning - of course to the usual level in MTW2, so no events triggering some changes of this kind.

Also, how do you plan to simulate the establishment of colonial settlements? The current system of taking over cities doesn't seem to quite fit. Perhaps have a script that converts the settlement's culture and gives a large population boost when a "colonial" faction takes over a certain region.

I am sure we will dsign something special.

[QUOTE=DukeofSerbia]cegorach

Check spell… Huguenots.

True

United Provinces is historical accurate. The Netherlands is from 1815.

I know, the names of the factions might even appear in original languages, so Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów for Poland-Lithuania and so on. Faction symbol and description will do the introduction.

Check spell… Habsburg. And it’s better Habsburgs than Habsburg HRE.

No the right spelling in English is Hapsburg. I have the same trougle since in Polish it is Habsburg, but it might be changed even more since the names are still to be changed as I hae mentioned above.

Check spell… Denmark.

True, for some reason I made the error only in the ORG...

Check spell… Horde.

Khorde is more 'easternised', but it will be changed anyway.

I like this. Safavid Persia! If you need some info, say as I moded Europa Universalis 2 (especially them, they were my favorite faction).

Good. I really need more data. I have very good unit roster ready ( PMTW1), but more information about internal situation is required.

They were irrelevant in 1570 and soon fall under Morocco (1591).
Better to include Savoy. They can be great buffer between Austria and France.
Or if you want faction in Africa then Kingdom of Sennar.

Perhaps I will, but Songhai has well researched military roster so I will need something equal to consider changin the faction into Sennar. Savoy is not interesting enough. I will rather allow the Spanish and French to fight in Italy...

I also have info about Balkan (Montenegro, Serbia, Military Frontier). And because I moded Europa Universalis I have many data about this period.

Very good - You could start with military units of the region, BUT please wait for couple of days I will post my ideas ( made some research earlier) before.

About map – you know that 200 provinces is limit. Map is brilliant in Europa Universalis style.

Of course - the map I posted is to show the size of the map rather than any provinces - it is impossible to have so detailed map as in EU2.

GENERALLY

Your help will be very valuable since you have modded EU and that requires some real effort.

However for now please avoid posting data about military - I really have some extensive knowledge (in most cases) and it is better to add notes to my rostrs than to post something I already know. I have pretty good knowledge about all the factions which are on the list.


Regards Cegorach

cegorach

You can send me PM now. I erased several messages.

I don't have much about units. Only general things about military from that period how much have somebody, when reformations occured and similar. OK. Don't worry.

About Balkan until next week. My computer goes into upgrade for some day.

United Provinces is historical accurate. The Netherlands is from 1815.

eh eh, the historical name is:
The Republic of Seven United Netherlands (De Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden)

we Dutch abriviate that to: The Republic

Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

Because Epistolary Richard confirmed that events will be very modable I wrote largest disasters in Europe between 1570 and 1700. That would add diversity to mod.

Great epidemic happened in Italy in 1574-5.
Large starvation happened in Italy, Spain and southern France in 1590-1.
Great epidemic and starvation happened in Spain in 1597-1602.
Great epidemic happened in Switzerland 1610 and 1615, Germany 1623-4, Netherlands 1634-5 and northern Italy in 1630 and 1656-7.
Great bubonic plague happened in Ottoman Empire in 1661 and spread into whole Europe: Netherlands 1663-4, London 1665 and Austria 1668.
Great plague happened in Bohemia, Austria and Hungary in 1680 (30 000 inhabitants of Prague died).
Great fires happened in Magdeburg 1631, London 1666 and Palatinate 1688.


Largest cities in Europe

In the beginning of XVI century 5 cities have more than 100 000 inhabitants: Istanbul, Milan, Naples, Paris and Venice.

In the end of XVI century some of those cities doubled their number of inhabitants and another eight cities reached 100 000 inhabitants: Antwerp, Lisbon, London, Marseille, Messina, Moscow, Palermo, Rome and Seville.


Religions:

Roman Catholic
Protestant
Orthodox
Sunni
Shiite
Pagan
Hindu
Judaism

Around 1600 is counted that in Europe lived 42 millions of Roman Catholics, 28 millions Protestants and 28 millions Orthodox Christians (including Russia and Ottoman Empire).

Defenitly looking forward to this mod. Im a big fan of cossacks and this particuler era. Most important of all though... This mod looks different yet fun
looking good!
However one thing though. That map looks a little bit over the province limit to me... Is there a map that is going to be used ingame thats out yet?

Do not worry about the province limit - the map I have shown is just the beginning - a good start.
The number will be as large as MTW2 engine allows - 199 or 200 if I am correct.

I would better edit the post with the map...

Just out of interest what help is needed? I am a member of another modding team but there isnt allways work to be done and ive got lots of spare time usually. I am knowledgable of RTW modding to a certain extent (I at least know most of the time what can and cant be done). I also have some experience doing balancing. While im also learning traits and scripting atm. Anything i could help with? No gaurentess that it wont turn out that im too busy (I doubt it though really).

I will start the recruitment in the next week. My PC needs an upgrade and MTW2 is out in a week in Poland anyway...

Generally as with any other TW games we will need some more time to learn what the engine really allows, so first 4-5 months will be rather boring and slow.

Currently it is more about non-military research ( I and the many supporters of PMTW1 have done most of military one anyway) than anything else.

That is why so many faction threads have been opened.

This is a massive project so will take some time and huge effort too if you are learning now, good your help will be useful when you will be ready.

Ok well id prefer to be doing anything else besides research+im not very knowledgable on the era apart from reading stuff from cossacks and seeing that english civil war movie. I do infact believe that someone released an unofficial unpacker allready. Although it only unpacks some things.

Cegorach, do you plan to alter the architecture and settlement plans?

It would be nice to make the main cities of the time unique looking too, eg Constantinople, Paris, Moscow...

What are you going to do with pikemen in the mod?

I ask because the pikemen don't really like their pikes M2TW...

Also from another thread that I started:

I have a feeling these are not possible, but it would good if they did work.

New towns and provinces:
The idea is best explained with an example. In a mod that contains the New World, you have the province of New England and it's settlement is Boston. When Boston gets to a certain population you can "build" a building called "further colonisation" or "found new town" or what ever you want to call it. When this building is complete, The province of New England splits into Massachusetts Bay and New Hampshire. Boston is the settlement in Massachusetts and Portsmouth is the settlement in of New Hampshire. This would represent the population of the area becoming more dense and the province becoming wealthier and more powerful.

New trade goods:
I will use another example for this. A province has land that is good for tobacco, this allows you to build a tobacco plantation, when this built tobacco starts being traded with other provinces. Then you can then build a cigar maker, when this is built cigars become a trade good.

What do you think of those ideas?

When official recruitment will start?
It is clear know that full modification of MII TW would be possible.

Anyway, I nominated you cegorach and P&M TW 1.5 in HoF2006.

I will start it in January after the holiday break. Of course there will be a new thread for that, stivked of course.

Thanks for the nemination Duke


@The Doctor

Good ideas, but the splitting unlikely to be possible in my opinion - it requires changable map and that is not possible, but perhaps we can make it work in some way - similar, but not the same...

Second one - clearly very good idea - probably much easier to add and hopefully working too.

Originally Posted by cegorach

I will start it in January after the holiday break. Of course there will be a new thread for that, stivked of course.

Good news.

Originally Posted by cegorach

Thanks for the nemination Duke

No problems. I didn't know when you released P&M TW 1.5, but because oit was in April, your mod passed.

When 2.0 will be finished and CW?

Switching this to the West for a moment, will there be an English Civil War campaign?

Thanks and Happy New Year!

Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

cegorach
United Provinces is historical accurate. The Netherlands is from 1815.

United Provinces should indeed be the name.
Btw: in 1815 it would have been the United Kingdom of the Netherlands. It became oficially the Netherlands in 1838.

here's some info that might be handy:

http://www.northernwars.com/
http://www.portsdown.demon.co.uk/cwp.htm
http://www.kipar.org/military-history/index.html
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypld...e_id=269277%20
http://www.borderreivers.co.uk/
http://www.milhist.dk/index.htm
http://www.bayerisches-armeemuseum.de/
http://www.pikeandshotsociety.org/warflag.htm

Thanks for the links.

I have checked most of those pages, though the first one is nicely updated as I see now. Makes me slightly frustrated I can't order some of those nice CD's, though, but spending over 2000 $ on various sources for this modding project is a little too much for now...

Regards Cegorach

so how much time does each turn amount to? seeing how the mod will only be 130 years it would make sense to make each game year last longer than usual. maybe each turn could be a season or a month.

I've been looking into this one for MTW for a while now. I've never ever done any mods so I don't know what to do but, is this mod done for MTW2 yet?

Hmm the mod is for MTW2 and though we have little tools for now to make the necessary changes it doesn't matter as long as there is enough suppport for the project.
It will take at least one year to have some mini-beta ready for testing and more to have the campaign prepared.

Well so much for playing it for MTW2 anytime soon

Maybe I'll do it for just MTW sometime.

Good luck on your work.

Is there a website for this mod?