Is there really a purpose to Crusading when playing on World Conq. mode?

[Alexios]

Sorry guys for the newbie question here, but I'm playing in the latter stages of an MTW campaign, and I can't help but wonder what purpose does Crusading really have when playing in World Conq. mode? In fact, I think I had a chance to Crusade only twice in this whole campaign; it didn't take long before I got to the point where, due to the size of my empire (I guess), everyone from the Pope on down to the Egyptians were trying to make war with me. Now it looks like I'm going to be in a constant state of excommunication, so I don't think Crusading will be an option for me even if I do find a purpose for it.

[gunslinger]

Crusading still has a few advantages.

1. it gives your king influence. This has the minor benefit of improving your relations with other countries, and the major benefit of giving better stats to his progeny.

2. Crusading gives you free units that you otherwise couldn't get.

3. If planned properly, crusades can be marched through the territory of other Catholic factions, draining their troops along the way if they have high enough zeal (Precede your crusade with inquisitors to pump that zeal up)

4. I think I read that you don't have to pay upkeep on units that are in a "crusade stack" but I'm not sure about that one.

[Martok]

4. I think I read that you don't have to pay upkeep on units that are in a "crusade stack" but I'm not sure about that one.

You're spot on, gunslinger. All units in a Crusade/Jihad don't cost any upkeep. It's a very nice way to cut down on costs if you have a large army, while increasing your piety/influence at the same time.

[doc_bean]

Also, you should use them early, they can be devastating in the early game.

Personally i prefer a Jihad myself

[Raz]

I love just riding through Catholic provinces, stealing their troops and then make my way to distant lands..... right in the middle of some other faction's territory.

I then build up my army in that province and spread out through the world!
Mwha! Mwhahahahahaha!

[ciprianrusu]

For me crusading is a great way at the beginning of the game of getting unique troops and conquering some territories, like those in the north-vest of Africa (Morocco , Algeria) for their resources..

[CrossLOPER]

For me crusading is a great way at the beginning of the game of getting unique troops and conquering some territories, like those in the north-vest of Africa (Morocco , Algeria) for their resources..

I'd actually rather stay as far away as possible from anything the Spainish might want. Althought I find that it's fully possible to stick a large, weak, hard-to-control, and economically draining army in the middle of an underdeveloped province and hold it, I'd rather build up the main part of my empire before spreading out.

I like the challenge, though...

[Matador]

I would say the best advantage to crusades is some of the units you get (order foot soldiers, knights hospiteller, etc.) However I have heard that if your crusade fails then you will actually lose influence. I don't know for sure though because I usally get excommunicated pretty quick so then I have to crush the papacy.

[Arciel]

Frankly speaking, I can't seem to really like crusades, whether I launched or it was launched at me. Grabbing hold of a territory in the early game via a crusade puts me in an unwanted war against the AI. Even if I do manage to take the territory, I won't be able to hold it for long. Oh and the fact that having a failed crusade loses your king an influence point and might also possibly lead to civil war doesn't maki it any better...(if it happened to a hostile country, then it is a heavenly gift indeed)

[wizardrj]

Sorry, but I have to disagree !

Crusades is the best way to expand your empire, build up influence and stay on friendly terms with your neighbours. Ohh and did I mention the nice troops you can get your hands on ;-)

Crusades are at their most deadly in Early campaigns, due to the Chivalric-like crusaderknights, combined with Order-foot they rule in the early world.

Crusades are also the only option of you play a faction with no easy rebel neighbours to attack.

So for France, HRE, Italy, Sicily, and the like, Crusades can get you an empire without straining relations with your powerfull neighbours.

And often more important, you wont get the pope to excom. you !!!
Sometimes he even gives you a great big pile of cash !!!!

[Ciaran]

The problem is, as the HRE you can hardly spare the troops for a crusade, especially in the early era (that applies to the other factions you mentioned as well, but the HRE´s situation is most extreme). Plus, the HRE especially will have to march a crusade overland for the biggest part of it, as the HRE has no ready access to the Mediterrean, and building a ship line all through the Northern Sea and the Atlantic takes a lot time. Chances are you´ll have reached High era before you´re reasonably well off enough to launch a Crusade.

[CountMRVHS]

It's certainly more worth it to crusade from northwest Europe. As the HRE, you only really have the chance to go through one other catholic faction's lands -- usually Hungary. And while that can net you some HAs and Szekely, it likely won't be enough to sustain your crusade as you move through the Byzantine's lands and start to *lose* troops. Your only option, then, as the HRE, is to build up troops of your own to drop in your crusade -- preferably lots of archers and militia sergeants. But that's time-consuming and expensive.

I've had great luck crusading as the French in my early/expert/GA game. My starting point is Ile de France, and I've launched 3 successful crusades: Edessa (for an early foothold in the region), Tripoli (for the Krak objective), and Palestine (for the points). Antioch I captured without a crusade as there wasn't time and I needed it for my homelands. But the point is, on each of those crusades, I got *plenty* of troops as I marched through the HRE's lands, then Hungary's. So by the time I arrived in Byzantine lands I had in the neighborhood of 1700-2000 men, and was able to easily handle the Turks and Egyptians who tried to get their lands back. Because I started so far away and was able to move through some nice Catholic lands with decent zeal, I hardly had to build up troops for my crusades at all.

The first Crusade province you take is always the hardest (unless you're crusading to a neighboring province). I've had crusades end pretty badly as the French in the past, so you need to watch out for the Turks/Egyptians trying to reclaim what you just grabbed from them. Probably the single most important unit you can bring on crusade, at least in early, is the humble Archer. If you face the Turks, these guys will be your only hope against their hordes of HAs. If you face the Egyptians, they'll easily shoot down the hordes of Bedouins and Peasants.

One thing to add I hadn't seen mentioned in this thread: since you don't pay upkeep for troops in a crusade, be sure to stock up on plenty of fancy, expensive mercs before you go! Leave the siege equipment at home, though: you'll likely lose a bunch of men from the unit, making your catapult or whatever useless, and if they're mercs you won't be able to merge them into a larger unit.


CountMRVHS

[Brother Mark]

I find Crusades are worthwile early on in a conquest game and become decreasingly worth while as the game moves on.

Initially you get cheap access to some useful troop types - including mounted units which are generally in short supply in the early game. They also let you strike out at lands that are not adjacent to your own, which is useful for Catholic factions surrounded by other Catholic factions.
Later on the troop types become less useful as you become able to train superior units and your maritime network allows amphibious assaults.

[CrossLOPER]

I once almost had a successful crusade from the HRE. It was permitted rather easily through Constantinople, and I could see really quickly why: Egypt had these AMAZING armies with high ranking generals and large numbers of troops, sometimes numbering well over three thousand. My little crusader group had barely half that, although the troops were of high quality, and the general was exceptional. The crusade managed to bust through three large and powerful armies. One battle had an epic scene where mere archers, spearmen, and peasants were held up on a hill, with their flanks being protected by only a few armored units.

As the enemy, who was in every way possible superior, approached, my army waited. As the enemy set foot on the hill my rabble charged down the hill. A moment later, heavy cavalry charged from a forest, and cleared the rear guard and then proceeded to charge into the rear.

The last army was much larger than average, but jagged and depleted. The battle was on a hill, but the enemy closed in too quickly for a downward charge. The enemy general was in front. As he approached my archers let fly their arrows. The first volley killed him off, and caused the enemy's flanks to rout. My army charged and destroyed the enemy formation. Then, it was about to cripple the last wave, when I noticed that some armored troops were still idle! I charged them into the enemy, but it was too late. With no support or advantage, the weaker troops failed and fled. The crusade was over.

It was fun though. Oh, and I took Flanders that year, so it's all good. You just have to pick a good time, that's all.

[Fulliautomatix]

I always liked sending crusades out just for the fun of it ... it is unpredictable, and I never know what the exact path will be (sometimes the game restricts your route to your objective, particularly if you have any fleets parallel to your path). Plus, you don't know the final composition of your armies until you arrive at your destination, or who you'll face along the way ....

MTW is great; but like any game, after a while playing it, the challenges and surprises become fewer. Crusades were, for me, a way of throwing some of that back in the game.

[Brother Mark]

My problem with it was even if you sucesfully launched a Crusade to Palestine and recaptured the Holy Land all that happened was "You have captured Palestine" and "Your brave crusaders have reached their Church sanctioned objective."

Wow wee... we just liberated the Kingdom of Heaven and you get the same message as if you'd just conquered Finland. I wanted cheering and celebration and flockings of money and just something.... When playing Golden Achievements I'd have maybe got some points for it - except if I was playing a minor faction that the developers didn't give any awards to. Recapturing Jerusalem should be more significant.

[ciprianrusu]

My problem with it was even if you sucesfully launched a Crusade to Palestine and recaptured the Holy Land all that happened was "You have captured Palestine" and "Your brave crusaders have reached their Church sanctioned objective."

Wow wee... we just liberated the Kingdom of Heaven and you get the same message as if you'd just conquered Finland. I wanted cheering and celebration and flockings of money and just something.... When playing Golden Achievements I'd have maybe got some points for it - except if I was playing a minor faction that the developers didn't give any awards to. Recapturing Jerusalem should be more significant.

I totaly agree. I was as surprised as you when i conquered Palestine. Someone should fix this problem.

[Brother Mark]

Not really a problem with the game that can be fixed.

Hopefully MTW2 will give more importance to holding the Holy Land for Christendom.

[CrossLOPER]

Wow wee... we just liberated the Kingdom of Heaven and you get the same message as if you'd just conquered Finland.

...but...but... FINLAND IS SO FULL OF AWESOME!!!!

Really, I guess the game designers just thought that that "CRUSADE SUCCESS" message you get if you captured the province was enough. Truth be told, it was enough for me the first time my first crusade succeeded.