Crusade - target province back in catholic hands

[Jxrc]

Something I do not get

When a crusade starts and when the target provinces is taken-over by anothe catholic faction before it is reached by the crusade it seems that sometimes it is disbanded (with apparently the same loss of influence as for a failed crusade) sometimes it keeps on going and you get a message asking you to hand over the province peacefully when the crusade arrives (if you say yes they ransom your entire army... )

Is there a reason for this or is it just random ?

Likewise, you are sometimes prohibited to start a crusade for which another crusade is already on its way but it is not uncommon to see an AI faction starting a crusade for the same province as you after you've launched you own crusade ... Same question ... Is there some kind of logical explanation that I would have failed to spot ?

[Vladimir]

Basically a Crusade is a race to take over a part of the Holy land. If you loose the race, you loose the crusade. Unfortunately you can't just choose to go to a different part of the Holy Land.

[caravel]

I must admit that when crusading I always try to beat rival factions crusade to their target if I think I have a chance.

[Martok]

Something I do not get

When a crusade starts and when the target provinces is taken-over by anothe catholic faction before it is reached by the crusade it seems that sometimes it is disbanded (with apparently the same loss of influence as for a failed crusade) sometimes it keeps on going and you get a message asking you to hand over the province peacefully when the crusade arrives (if you say yes they ransom your entire army... )

Is there a reason for this or is it just random ?

Unfortunately, that's just the way the game mechanic works. If you own a province that's the target for a Crusade, you have two choices:

1.) Turn over the province to the Crusaders, and then pay a big ransom for your army (if you have no neighboring territory for them to retreat to); or
2.) Refuse to turn over the province, fight an often-massive Crusader army, and then be summarily excommunicated. It's one of the few things about Crusades that I can't stand.

Likewise, you are sometimes prohibited to start a crusade for which another crusade is already on its way but it is not uncommon to see an AI faction starting a crusade for the same province as you after you've launched you own crusade ... Same question ... Is there some kind of logical explanation that I would have failed to spot ?

No, you're not missing anything, Jxrc. In regards to Crusades, the AI factions receive several advantages over the human player--one of which is that they can launch a Crusade after you do, even if it's headed for the same province.

[Jxrc]

Many thanks Martok

Not a very satisfactory situation but reassuring to know nonetheless.

Since I have sometimes managed to get a AI crusade disbanded, I was wondering if it does not depend on how you conquer the province. Perhaps that if you use only you "regular army" (and nothing else), the AI crusade stops while if you have crusade involved in the process the AI keeps on going ? not sure though ... will check when I get the opportunity

[matteus the inbred]

In regards to Crusades, the AI factions receive several advantages over the human player--one of which is that they can launch a Crusade after you do, even if it's headed for the same province.

Yes, very annoying. Another is that the AI appears to be able to pick its own route to the target, usually coincidentally(!) involving walking through all of your heavily garrisoned provinces and picking up lots of your troops, often repeatedly, whereas as the player you have to follow a pre-selected route, or go by sea. If crusading, always try to have an unbroken sea link to the target, as you can always beat any land-based crusade by zipping over there in one turn! Make sure your crusade is big enough to start with (hire mercs and drop them straight into a crusade, apparently you don't have to pay for them while they're on crusade).
I don't know about your last query Jxrc, I shall check myself. Sometimes the AI crusade vanishes, sometimes not...maybe it has to with how many troops they've got?

[caravel]

Another is that the AI appears to be able to pick its own route to the target, usually coincidentally(!) involving walking through all of your heavily garrisoned provinces and picking up lots of your troops, often repeatedly, whereas as the player you have to follow a pre-selected route, or go by sea.

Verry annoying. This always happens to me around the eastern Turkish/Byzantine provinces. The crusade seems to be en route to go into Lesser Armenia, but then zips into Rum, then gets beaten and heads off on another route, even if it's longer. I make a point of chastising these AI crusades mightily, to the extent that I cannot wait to annoy the pope and provoke some more.

Since I have sometimes managed to get a AI crusade disbanded, I was wondering if it does not depend on how you conquer the province. Perhaps that if you use only you "regular army" (and nothing else), the AI crusade stops while if you have crusade involved in the process the AI keeps on going ? not sure though ... will check when I get the opportunity

You can get the AI crusade disbanded by sending your own crusade to the same province as the AI crusade and getting your's there first. Also if their chapterhouse is destroyed the crusade is gone. Crusades will also disband due to desertion when they finally run out of men.

[Geezer57]

You can get the AI crusade disbanded by sending your own crusade to the same province as the AI crusade and getting your's there first.

Nope - see Martok's post for how it works.

Unfortunately, that's just the way the game mechanic works. If you own a province that's the target for a Crusade, you have two choices:

1.) Turn over the province to the Crusaders, and then pay a big ransom for your army (if you have no neighboring territory for them to retreat to); or
2.) Refuse to turn over the province, fight an often-massive Crusader army, and then be summarily excommunicated. It's one of the few things about Crusades that I can't stand.

I don't much like it, either, but it does make for "interesting times".

[caravel]

Nope - see Martok's post for how it works.

Sorry but I'm not so sure that's how it works. If as a catholic faction you invade and take a province that is the target for another catholic faction's crusade, or your own crusade gains that province, rival crusades for that province will disband. If it was your crusade that was beaten to it's objective then you will see the message about the province being back "in the hands of true catholics", and of the crusade being disbanded. Catholics don't hand over provinces to other catholics due to a crusade. This only occurs where the objective is a rebel province and they believe they can't win.

I know this because I very regularly declare crusades targetted at the same provinces as my rivals, then beat them to the target by sea. Their crusade always disbands, it never continues on it's way until it reaches my province and asks me, another catholic faction, to hand it over.

One of my common strategies as the French or English is to crusade to Palestine, and build a chapter house there. If one of the rival crusading factions decides to send a crusade to tripoli, I immediately declare another one from Palestine and send it straight in with some back up. The AI crusade vanishes never to return, often sparking a civil war in their homelands.

Excommunication is another matter of course.

If for example, you are Novgorod and the French declare a crusade for rebel controlled lithuania, and in the mean time you invade it and take it. When the crusade arrives, you will see a message that the crusaders "explain that they have been "sent by god" asking you to hand over the province. Also vice versa if you were the french in that situation you may see a "hand over the province peacefully" message.

[Geezer57]

Since I have sometimes managed to get a AI crusade disbanded, I was wondering if it does not depend on how you conquer the province.

If you conquer the province where the Crusade started and destroy the Chapter House, the Crusade is disbanded and the faction ruler it belonged to loses an Influence point. Always fun if you can pull it off.

[Jxrc]

This week-end findings (playing VI with patch)

• playing as the Sicilian - launched a crusade after the French (who had been excommunicated after launching their own crusade) - manage to get to Antioch first thanks to navy - French Crusade not disbanded and keep on going until it reaches my province of Armenia - Easier to stop it there so I refused passage - Got excommed for not allowing and excommed faction to crusade ....
• playing as the Sicilian - sent a crusade to Crimea - target owned by rebels, those were not muslim but pagan or jews -they handed over the province peacefully.

More next week ...

[Martok]

@Jxrc: Wow, that's definitely odd. Very ironic to be excommed by refusing to let another excommed faction to take over the province!

My own experience was more straightforward. I loaded up an old Spanish campaign this weekend, and launched a Crusade to Palestine after the English had already done so. The English Crusade arrived in Palestine three years after I conquered it, requesting I turn over the province to them. I told them no, and was promptly excommunicated (although I defeated the English Crusaders in the ensuing battle).

I then reloaded the same game. I waited until I could see the English Crusade was only two provinces away from Palestine before declaring a Crusade myself. I then had my Crusade just sit there in Leon, not moving. Two years later, I received a message saying that Palestine was safely in Catholic hands, and my Crusade automatically disbanded.

[CountMRVHS]

Not that you need it, but thought I'd add my voice to this: my experience is exactly as Martok here has described it. It's always the dastardly Spanish who try to steal my successfully-Crusaded provinces, curse them . Although, to be honest, it doesn't really strike me as that unrealistic, even the problem of ransoming back tons of your own ex-Crusaders: think how nigh-impossible it must have been for a medieval ruler half the world away to get back thousands of soldiers once power in Jerusalem had changed hands.

Incidentally, I've come back to MTW after a long RTW/BI stint. Heard about this M2TW, got interested, then decided to try MTW again. Playing the French, Early, GA, Expert, and having a blast with the best TW game ever (well, I haven't tried Shogun...) So I'm getting reacquainted with the fun of Crusades all over again!

CountMRVHS

[Martok]

Not that you need it, but thought I'd add my voice to this: my experience is exactly as Martok here has described it. It's always the dastardly Spanish who try to steal my successfully-Crusaded provinces, curse them .

Well it's a good thing we can't play an online campaign against each other then, because you'd hate my friggin' guts. (The Spanish are my favorite faction, and I often gun for Crusading to the Holy Lands when playing as them.)

Incidentally, I've come back to MTW after a long RTW/BI stint. Heard about this M2TW, got interested, then decided to try MTW again. Playing the French, Early, GA, Expert, and having a blast with the best TW game ever (well, I haven't tried Shogun...) So I'm getting reacquainted with the fun of Crusades all over again!

E-e-e-e-xcellent! Welcome back to the dark side, CountMRVHS.


(Ironically, I myself am still deeply into my Shogun campaign at the moment. Clan Takeda is about to be smashed by my fearsome Hojo warriors! )

[caravel]

I haven't had a chance to test this, as I've been wrapped up in some minor modding lately.