Siege defence

**Matty** · 09-22-2006, 10:44

Morning all. Is there any way to destroy the entrance to the tunnels used to mine under your walls, or any other way to stop these pesky tunnelers? I can't manage it and it makes the more vulnerable siege engines pretty pointless. But pretty.

**Braden** · 09-22-2006, 11:29

I'd be interested to know if there is a way but I haven't found one yet. And yes, practically it does make the other siege weapons an expensive waste of time and/or coin.

Rebuilding the walls is usually cheaper than building several Onglars and certainly quicker than waiting for other siege weapons.

I see it as an "End Game" minor flaw really. You should have to wait for Sapping points to be built and it should take the longest of any siege weaponry.

**Quillan** · 09-22-2006, 14:38

I've never had the AI use saps against me, but I think you can shoot the entrance with fire arrows and collapse it. I might be wrong, though. From an offensive standpoint, I rarely use saps unless I'm playing something like Parthia. I capture the walls and leave them standing undamaged when I can.

**Conqueror** · 09-22-2006, 16:23

Originally Posted by Quillan

I've never had the AI use saps against me, but I think you can shoot the entrance with fire arrows and collapse it. I might be wrong, though.

It works, at least in Barbarian Invasion. What's really cool is that if the entrace is destroyed, all soldiers inside the sap tunnel will be instantly killed.

**Severous** · 09-22-2006, 21:05

How about sending your cavalry outside your walls to kill the unit that is using the sap ?

**Caius** · 09-22-2006, 22:15

Originally Posted by Quillan

I've never had the AI use saps against me, but I think you can shoot the entrance with fire arrows and collapse it. I might be wrong, though. From an offensive standpoint, I rarely use saps unless I'm playing something like Parthia. I capture the walls and leave them standing undamaged when I can.

Thats true, in RTW the computer never uses the saps.For why?

**Conqueror** · 09-23-2006, 10:20

The Huns certainly tried to use saps against me in BI. Good thing I had Eastern Archers on the walls.

**professorspatula** · 09-23-2006, 13:29

Originally Posted by Caius Flaminius

Thats true, in RTW the computer never uses the saps.For why?

I'm sure the AI will use saps in RTW, but there seems to be a priority when it comes to attacking during a settlement. Onagers are the highest priority: they'll take out towers, gatehouses and walls. If the onagers fail to create an entry, siege towers, rams etc are used. Saps seem a low priority. But most of the time, the sap points seem to be positioned far from the main army and end up being unmanned. If you set up a custom battle where the enemy has 1 onager, a siege tower and a sap point (or 2), and just a few units, you should see the enemy attempt to use the sap point, although typically it will be a pointless endeavour as the sap point will be at the same part of the wall the onager is knocking down.

**Conqueror** · 09-23-2006, 17:03

There's also the issue that not all infantry units are able to sap. Only those with the "can sap" ability do. If the AI uses these same units for siege towers/ladders then the other units can't do anything with the sap points.

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 09-24-2006, 02:42

Originally Posted by Caius Flaminius

Thats true, in RTW the computer never uses the saps.For why?

I play RTW 1.0 on vh/vh.

I have had a wall undermined on me by an AI opponent on 2 occasions -- admittedly, that's a small percentage, but it does happen.