chain routing causes

[caravel]

"Often Retreats" is one of the "coward" line of vices, which affects morale. Also you were outnumbered more than 3 to one which, IIRC, also affects morale.

[Geezer57]

Excerpted from the Numerology thread over at the .com: http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...art=41&stop=52

*** Negative Morale Modifiers ***

-3 Morale for units being "Very Tired"
-6 Morale for units being "Exhausted"
-8 Morale for units being "Completely Exhausted"
-2 Morale for being shot at by Missles
-4 Morale if those Missiles "Cause Fear" (ie Cannon)
-4 Morale is outnumbered by the enemy at 2:1
-12 Morale maximum if outnumbered by the enemy 10:1 (could be less)
-2 Morale if a flank is threatened
-6 Morale if both flanks or a flank and the rear is threatened
-4 Morale if charged on a flank
-6 Morale additional if infantry is charged on a flank by Cavalry
-8 Morale if charged on a flank by a hidden unit
-2 Morale if unit takes 10% casualties
-8 Morale if unit takes 50% casualties
-12 Morale if unit takes 80% casualties
-8 Morale maximum if unit is "Losing" (could be less)
-6 Morale additional to infantry "Losing" against Cavalry
-12 Morale maximum if two or more friendly units rout (could be less, depending on type)
-8 Morale immediately following General's death (temporary)
-2 Morale permanently following General's death (does not impact Elite or Disciplined units)

*** The MTW/VI Vices and Virtues List ***

Expert Defender
He is an expert in defence, well known for his ability to exploit terrain, lay ambushes, and force attackers in to unwise decisions. +2 Command when defending.


Retreats often
He seems to always be retreating, perhaps because he's always given impossible positions to defend. -1 Loyalty, -4 Morale.

Timorous
He has fought many battles but seldom gets into combat himself. His men joke about this, but it also lurks in their minds as they are placed in harm's way. -4 morale, -1 valour.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Regarding your General, his V&V's are mostly negative for morale - i.e., the Expert Defender gives a boost (due to command stars) to nearby troops, but it's more than offset by the negatives from the others.

As for your army, look over the morale negative modifiers: there are so many that could have applied to your men in that situation, it's hard to see how they could have held.

P.S. That V&V list was posted earlier this year by Grey Fox - Cheers!

[danfda]

I had something like this happen to me yesterday. I have an XL campaign with the Knights Hospitaller, late/hard, and I was in posession of Egypt. My heir was in charge of a mostly full stack of arbalesters, order foot, and mounted x-bows, which, most of which had an armor+2 upgrade.

The Eggies attacked with a slight numerical advantage and an army comprised of mostly saharan cav and mameluk cav, with a unit of Mongol heavy cav (hehe), desert archers, and a couple of nubian spearmen. A few turns prior I had annihilated an Egyptian army of mostly the same composition in the same territory, so I thought the battle would be no big thing. Boy was I wrong.

The cav charged my line of arbs, who got off some salvos but did not do as much damage as I wanted. One unit got caught by the Mameluks before it could retreat behind my order foot, and routed almost immediately. So when the MHC hit a perfect unit of order foot, they too routed almost immediately even after taking hardly any casualties. Next, my whole line routed, except for my two Knights Hospitaller and one unit of order foot, which almost carried the day, killing the MHC, the mameluks, the spearmen, just about everyone. Every other unit routed and was butchered almost to a man, with most running off, rallying, and routing again before they even got back to the Egyptians. The mameluks and the saharans made short work of them, to my dismay.

My general fought valiantly, but died a short while later when the reserve mameluk cav hit his ragtag line. It was sluaghter. I did, however, kill more of them than they killed of me, but it was a close thing, and that was only because of my heir's heroism.

Now, the chain route, I believe, was due to my heir. He had the gluttony vice, which carried a -6 morale penalty (I think). This hadn't been a problem before, but I think that it was when combined with the desert--the armor made my guys tired from just standing there...

You would think I learned my lesson, but the very next turn I took Egypt back from its rightful owners with a large invasion, consisting mostly of Knights Hospitaller, order foot, and arbs...

[gaijinalways]

Good point, I figured it was the general. The next replay I pulled the general out bringing in a replacement, about same numbers 1150 to 3300, yet I pulled off a stunning victory. Having a few more reinforcements helped, but mainly nobody panicked and the general didn't start squacking. Yeah, a bad general will just ruin your day .

[Martok]

Good point, I figured it was the general. The next replay I pulled the general out bringing in a replacemnet, about same numbers 1150 to 3300, yet I pulled off a stunning victory. Having a few more reinforcements helped, but mainly nobody panicked and the general didn't start squacking. Yeah, a bad general will just ruin your day .

Yep, you can have the best general in the world stat-wise (command, dread, etc.); but he'll still be useless if he's got traits that give his men morale penalties.

[Biggus Diccus]

A general with -8 morale is useless, even if he's 8-star. Bad luck gaijinalways, just retire your general to governor-duty if he's got good acumen.

[Ironside]

As a rule of tumb, any general with a total morale worse than -3 is useless, no matter his stars.

Gluttany generals can also be problematic as it gives a -8 morale penalty to the general unit (-4 valour = -8 morale), making him very prone to rout, causing chain routs and/or "good runner" vices.

[Deus ret.]

Yep, you can have the best general in the world stat-wise (command, dread, etc.); but he'll still be useless if he's got traits that give his men morale penalties.

sorry for posing this question again, which doubtlessly has already been asked a thousand times: does dread actually have an impact in combat? I thought its use was restricted to raising loyalty in a province below 50% zeal.....so if your your general has high dread, are the enemy afraid of him and become more prone to rout? or do your own units remain on the battlefield longer due to fear of punishment?

[Maeda Toshiie]

sorry for posing this question again, which doubtlessly has already been asked a thousand times: does dread actually have an impact in combat? I thought its use was restricted to raising loyalty in a province below 50% zeal.....so if your your general has high dread, are the enemy afraid of him and become more prone to rout? or do your own units remain on the battlefield longer due to fear of punishment?

There has been no recorded effect of dread on the battlefield.

[Geezer57]

Dread has no effect on the battlefield, unless it's due to V&V's that affect morale - but it is the vice, not the dread, that impacts your fighting men.