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  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member gaijinalways's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Good point, I figured it was the general. The next replay I pulled the general out bringing in a replacement, about same numbers 1150 to 3300, yet I pulled off a stunning victory. Having a few more reinforcements helped, but mainly nobody panicked and the general didn't start squacking. Yeah, a bad general will just ruin your day .
    Last edited by gaijinalways; 09-24-2006 at 05:34.

  2. #2
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by gaijinalways
    Good point, I figured it was the general. The next replay I pulled the general out bringing in a replacemnet, about same numbers 1150 to 3300, yet I pulled off a stunning victory. Having a few more reinforcements helped, but mainly nobody panicked and the general didn't start squacking. Yeah, a bad general will just ruin your day .
    Yep, you can have the best general in the world stat-wise (command, dread, etc.); but he'll still be useless if he's got traits that give his men morale penalties.
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    Harbinger of the Doomed Rat Member Biggus Diccus's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    A general with -8 morale is useless, even if he's 8-star. Bad luck gaijinalways, just retire your general to governor-duty if he's got good acumen.
    General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmaney Melchett: That's the spirit, George. If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    As a rule of tumb, any general with a total morale worse than -3 is useless, no matter his stars.

    Gluttany generals can also be problematic as it gives a -8 morale penalty to the general unit (-4 valour = -8 morale), making him very prone to rout, causing chain routs and/or "good runner" vices.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaijinalways's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Actually I decided to suicide him as I didn't want him taking charge if the Irish decided to invade again. Besides, retirement didn't please him.

  6. #6
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Yep, you can have the best general in the world stat-wise (command, dread, etc.); but he'll still be useless if he's got traits that give his men morale penalties.
    sorry for posing this question again, which doubtlessly has already been asked a thousand times: does dread actually have an impact in combat? I thought its use was restricted to raising loyalty in a province below 50% zeal.....so if your your general has high dread, are the enemy afraid of him and become more prone to rout? or do your own units remain on the battlefield longer due to fear of punishment?
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  7. #7
    Teppo Taisho Member Maeda Toshiie's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deus ret.
    sorry for posing this question again, which doubtlessly has already been asked a thousand times: does dread actually have an impact in combat? I thought its use was restricted to raising loyalty in a province below 50% zeal.....so if your your general has high dread, are the enemy afraid of him and become more prone to rout? or do your own units remain on the battlefield longer due to fear of punishment?
    There has been no recorded effect of dread on the battlefield.
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  8. #8
    Member Member Geezer57's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Dread has no effect on the battlefield, unless it's due to V&V's that affect morale - but it is the vice, not the dread, that impacts your fighting men.
    My father's sole piece of political advice: "Son, politicians are like underwear - to keep them clean, you've got to change them often."

  9. #9

    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Dread is for governors and faction leaders, it impacts provincial happiness (loyalty) positively and nothing else. It's a pity that dread wasn't implimented as a factor on the battlefield, it could have been interesting.
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    Harbinger of the Doomed Rat Member Biggus Diccus's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    Dread is for governors and faction leaders, it impacts provincial happiness (loyalty) positively and nothing else. It's a pity that dread wasn't implimented as a factor on the battlefield, it could have been interesting.
    LOL A dreaded general rides along the battle-line and the enemy just routs when they see him

    But seriously, it could have had some negative morale modifiers to fight with a high dread general
    Last edited by Biggus Diccus; 09-25-2006 at 17:14.
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  11. #11
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggus Diccus
    LOL A dreaded general rides along the battle-line and the enemy just routs when they see him

    But seriously, it could have had some negative morale modifiers to fight with a high dread general
    Actually the question is if they would fight harder? As a dreaded general is likely to kill you if you're captured...
    Although the army would be more careful of actually engaging.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  12. #12
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Caravel
    Dread is for governors and faction leaders, it impacts provincial happiness (loyalty) positively and nothing else. It's a pity that dread wasn't implimented as a factor on the battlefield, it could have been interesting.
    I agree. In fact, I remember reading that this was actually going to be implemented in the game at one point. A general would supposedly inflict a negative morale penalty against an enemy army, based on how high his dread rating was. Why this feature was never implemented, I don't know. It would've been pretty cool if it had, though.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member gaijinalways's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    I agree, having a fearsome general should help in battles. As a side note, I counted up the vices for my general who died a martyr, and there was something like a -19 for morale!

    Timorous
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    retreats often
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    No wonder the troops were bolting as soon as one unit routed !

  14. #14

    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I agree. In fact, I remember reading that this was actually going to be implemented in the game at one point. A general would supposedly inflict a negative morale penalty against an enemy army, based on how high his dread rating was. Why this feature was never implemented, I don't know. It would've been pretty cool if it had, though.
    You know Henry V won the battle of Agincourt among other things because, when at the end of the battle the French cavalry almost had reached the French prisoners taken, over a thousand by that time, he ordered to kill the prisoners to prevent that they joined the battle again, almost certainly leading to a defeat for the English. When the French cavalry saw that happening, they fled in terror.

  15. #15

    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I agree. In fact, I remember reading that this was actually going to be implemented in the game at one point. A general would supposedly inflict a negative morale penalty against an enemy army, based on how high his dread rating was. Why this feature was never implemented, I don't know. It would've been pretty cool if it had, though.
    I would have liked to have seen it implimented as a double edged sword. E.g:

    Hypothetical:

    0 dread: no effect

    1 - 4 dread: has the effect of increasing his men's morale and causing fear to the enemy (norale penalty)

    5 - 6 dread: increases his men's morale but also starts to push enemies back up at the same time. Their overriding fear of being captured by such a butcher may have something to do with that.

    7 - 9 dread: this murderous commander has totally lost the respect of his men which demoralises them and heartens his enemies who are all to well aware of this.
    Loyalty and piety could have also played a part on the field. Piety could have increased the morale of pious units serving under a pious commander (depending on his piety level). Loyalty could also have given a very small morale bonus/penalty. Realistically those 1 loyalty units are not going to stick around to the bitter end, wheras the 8(+) loyalty units may be more likely to do so. This would give you the scenarios where those horribly disloyal troops turn and run in the middle of a battle.
    Last edited by caravel; 09-27-2006 at 10:39.
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