chain routing causes

[Martok]

Good point, I figured it was the general. The next replay I pulled the general out bringing in a replacemnet, about same numbers 1150 to 3300, yet I pulled off a stunning victory. Having a few more reinforcements helped, but mainly nobody panicked and the general didn't start squacking. Yeah, a bad general will just ruin your day .

Yep, you can have the best general in the world stat-wise (command, dread, etc.); but he'll still be useless if he's got traits that give his men morale penalties.

[Biggus Diccus]

A general with -8 morale is useless, even if he's 8-star. Bad luck gaijinalways, just retire your general to governor-duty if he's got good acumen.

[Ironside]

As a rule of tumb, any general with a total morale worse than -3 is useless, no matter his stars.

Gluttany generals can also be problematic as it gives a -8 morale penalty to the general unit (-4 valour = -8 morale), making him very prone to rout, causing chain routs and/or "good runner" vices.

[gaijinalways]

Actually I decided to suicide him as I didn't want him taking charge if the Irish decided to invade again. Besides, retirement didn't please him.

[Deus ret.]

Yep, you can have the best general in the world stat-wise (command, dread, etc.); but he'll still be useless if he's got traits that give his men morale penalties.

sorry for posing this question again, which doubtlessly has already been asked a thousand times: does dread actually have an impact in combat? I thought its use was restricted to raising loyalty in a province below 50% zeal.....so if your your general has high dread, are the enemy afraid of him and become more prone to rout? or do your own units remain on the battlefield longer due to fear of punishment?

[Maeda Toshiie]

sorry for posing this question again, which doubtlessly has already been asked a thousand times: does dread actually have an impact in combat? I thought its use was restricted to raising loyalty in a province below 50% zeal.....so if your your general has high dread, are the enemy afraid of him and become more prone to rout? or do your own units remain on the battlefield longer due to fear of punishment?

There has been no recorded effect of dread on the battlefield.

[Geezer57]

Dread has no effect on the battlefield, unless it's due to V&V's that affect morale - but it is the vice, not the dread, that impacts your fighting men.

[caravel]

Dread is for governors and faction leaders, it impacts provincial happiness (loyalty) positively and nothing else. It's a pity that dread wasn't implimented as a factor on the battlefield, it could have been interesting.

[Biggus Diccus]

Dread is for governors and faction leaders, it impacts provincial happiness (loyalty) positively and nothing else. It's a pity that dread wasn't implimented as a factor on the battlefield, it could have been interesting.

LOL A dreaded general rides along the battle-line and the enemy just routs when they see him

But seriously, it could have had some negative morale modifiers to fight with a high dread general

[Ironside]

LOL A dreaded general rides along the battle-line and the enemy just routs when they see him

But seriously, it could have had some negative morale modifiers to fight with a high dread general

Actually the question is if they would fight harder? As a dreaded general is likely to kill you if you're captured...
Although the army would be more careful of actually engaging.

[rvg]

Actually the question is if they would fight harder? As a dreaded general is likely to kill you if you're captured...
Although the army would be more careful of actually engaging.

I've actually seen a 900+ strong Egyptian army vacate a province when faced with 3 units of Gothic Knights led by my 9 Dread 4 star Jedi General, who happened to ba a Murderer, a Butcher *and* a Natural Born Killer.

They didn't even hole up in the castle either, they completely left the province. And no, their Sultan was not in that province.

[Martok]

Dread is for governors and faction leaders, it impacts provincial happiness (loyalty) positively and nothing else. It's a pity that dread wasn't implimented as a factor on the battlefield, it could have been interesting.

I agree. In fact, I remember reading that this was actually going to be implemented in the game at one point. A general would supposedly inflict a negative morale penalty against an enemy army, based on how high his dread rating was. Why this feature was never implemented, I don't know. It would've been pretty cool if it had, though.

[gaijinalways]

I agree, having a fearsome general should help in battles. As a side note, I counted up the vices for my general who died a martyr, and there was something like a -19 for morale!

Timorous
Blood lover
retreats often
another negative vice

No wonder the troops were bolting as soon as one unit routed !

[Martok]

I agree, having a fearsome general should help in battles. As a side note, I counted up the vices for my general who died a martyr, and there was something like a -19 for morale!

Timorous
Blood lover
retreats often
another negative vice

No wonder the troops were bolting as soon as one unit routed !

Yikes. With morale penalties like that, I think the question becomes not, "Why did your men run away?"; but rather "Why did they ever take the field in the first place?"

[Ciaran]

I agree. In fact, I remember reading that this was actually going to be implemented in the game at one point. A general would supposedly inflict a negative morale penalty against an enemy army, based on how high his dread rating was. Why this feature was never implemented, I don't know. It would've been pretty cool if it had, though.

You know Henry V won the battle of Agincourt among other things because, when at the end of the battle the French cavalry almost had reached the French prisoners taken, over a thousand by that time, he ordered to kill the prisoners to prevent that they joined the battle again, almost certainly leading to a defeat for the English. When the French cavalry saw that happening, they fled in terror.

[Maharajah]

You know Henry V won the battle of Agincourt among other things because, when at the end of the battle the French cavalry almost had reached the French prisoners taken, over a thousand by that time, he ordered to kill the prisoners to prevent that they joined the battle again, almost certainly leading to a defeat for the English. When the French cavalry saw that happening, they fled in terror.

Speaking of Agincourt and chain routing, I was playing the historical campaign the other day and I have not been able to win at Agincourt.

First, I tried hiding my spears/Billmen in the woods to force the cavalry to fight at a disadvantage and skirmished with my longbows. Well my longbows were annihilated, no surprise but I thought they would inflict some punishement (not), then my spears routed in the forest and I was crushed.

Second I tried building a half-hexagon of billmen and spears with my longbows packed in the middle and some FMAA at the back to stiffen spines. I then tried to hit the flanks of the on rushing French Hvy Cav horde with all of my Knights when they were pinned on the spears. This was working beautifully until my billmen, for some unknown reason, tried to advance even though they were on hold position, hold formation.
Of course my lines were disrupted and everyone routed and was cut down.

I'll tell you what's not best in life: "to be crushed by my enemy, see my troops driven before me and to hear the lamentation of my women..."

Any advice? Seems like the longbowmen don't have enough time to inflict the kind of damage they did historically and the cavalry is not hampered at all by the mud.

[caravel]

I agree. In fact, I remember reading that this was actually going to be implemented in the game at one point. A general would supposedly inflict a negative morale penalty against an enemy army, based on how high his dread rating was. Why this feature was never implemented, I don't know. It would've been pretty cool if it had, though.

I would have liked to have seen it implimented as a double edged sword. E.g:

Hypothetical:

0 dread: no effect

1 - 4 dread: has the effect of increasing his men's morale and causing fear to the enemy (norale penalty)

5 - 6 dread: increases his men's morale but also starts to push enemies back up at the same time. Their overriding fear of being captured by such a butcher may have something to do with that.

7 - 9 dread: this murderous commander has totally lost the respect of his men which demoralises them and heartens his enemies who are all to well aware of this.

Loyalty and piety could have also played a part on the field. Piety could have increased the morale of pious units serving under a pious commander (depending on his piety level). Loyalty could also have given a very small morale bonus/penalty. Realistically those 1 loyalty units are not going to stick around to the bitter end, wheras the 8(+) loyalty units may be more likely to do so. This would give you the scenarios where those horribly disloyal troops turn and run in the middle of a battle.