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  1. #1

    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciaran
    You know Henry V won the battle of Agincourt among other things because, when at the end of the battle the French cavalry almost had reached the French prisoners taken, over a thousand by that time, he ordered to kill the prisoners to prevent that they joined the battle again, almost certainly leading to a defeat for the English. When the French cavalry saw that happening, they fled in terror.
    Speaking of Agincourt and chain routing, I was playing the historical campaign the other day and I have not been able to win at Agincourt.

    First, I tried hiding my spears/Billmen in the woods to force the cavalry to fight at a disadvantage and skirmished with my longbows. Well my longbows were annihilated, no surprise but I thought they would inflict some punishement (not), then my spears routed in the forest and I was crushed.

    Second I tried building a half-hexagon of billmen and spears with my longbows packed in the middle and some FMAA at the back to stiffen spines. I then tried to hit the flanks of the on rushing French Hvy Cav horde with all of my Knights when they were pinned on the spears. This was working beautifully until my billmen, for some unknown reason, tried to advance even though they were on hold position, hold formation.
    Of course my lines were disrupted and everyone routed and was cut down.

    I'll tell you what's not best in life: "to be crushed by my enemy, see my troops driven before me and to hear the lamentation of my women..."

    Any advice? Seems like the longbowmen don't have enough time to inflict the kind of damage they did historically and the cavalry is not hampered at all by the mud.

  2. #2

    Default Re: chain routing causes

    what an excelent thread!!! iT's answered alot off my own questions.

  3. #3

    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Maharajah
    Speaking of Agincourt and chain routing, I was playing the historical campaign the other day and I have not been able to win at Agincourt.

    First, I tried hiding my spears/Billmen in the woods to force the cavalry to fight at a disadvantage and skirmished with my longbows. Well my longbows were annihilated, no surprise but I thought they would inflict some punishement (not), then my spears routed in the forest and I was crushed.

    Second I tried building a half-hexagon of billmen and spears with my longbows packed in the middle and some FMAA at the back to stiffen spines. I then tried to hit the flanks of the on rushing French Hvy Cav horde with all of my Knights when they were pinned on the spears. This was working beautifully until my billmen, for some unknown reason, tried to advance even though they were on hold position, hold formation.
    Of course my lines were disrupted and everyone routed and was cut down.

    I'll tell you what's not best in life: "to be crushed by my enemy, see my troops driven before me and to hear the lamentation of my women..."

    Any advice? Seems like the longbowmen don't have enough time to inflict the kind of damage they did historically and the cavalry is not hampered at all by the mud.
    I did the following:
    I positioned the Chiv Sergeants (in the center - CS need their flanks protected at all cost) and the Billmen in a line at the hedge that marks the edge of the big field (there´s a minimal rise in terrain - maybe enough for a small uphill bonus) The Longbows were positioned behind them. The swords I put into the woods on the left flank, the French don´t have any infantry to speak of, but loads of cavalry and if those caught my swords in the open, there´d be hell to pay. My own cavalry went to the back. After that it was mainly downhill - the French came up rather slowly, and my Longbows could pick off a good number before they even met my infantry. The swords in the woods on the left flank could hold their own, in the center my CS routed, but rushing King Harry into the breach prevented the breakthrough. The billmen protected the flanks by attacking (important - they need to rush out and attack) the French that tried to move around the inner flanks (between the battle line and the trees on either side). That caused the French units to present their flanks to my reserve cavalry, of which I took advantage. When the Longbows had spent their arrows I placed them in the woods as well where they could hold their own well enough. And that was it, basically.

  4. #4

    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Sorry, can somebody please just clarify this for me?

    Do V&V morale modifiers apply to just the unit with that V&V, or to the entire army?

    I was under the impression that all morale modifiers applied to that unit only, including those from the general's vices. Is it actually that the general's morale-modifying V&Vs affect the whole army? (And if so, does each unit receive additional penalties for their own V&Vs or not?)

    Thanks.

  5. #5
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zild
    Sorry, can somebody please just clarify this for me?

    Do V&V morale modifiers apply to just the unit with that V&V, or to the entire army?

    I was under the impression that all morale modifiers applied to that unit only, including those from the general's vices. Is it actually that the general's morale-modifying V&Vs affect the whole army? (And if so, does each unit receive additional penalties for their own V&Vs or not?)

    Thanks.
    The general's morale v&v affects the hole army. I don't think the units recive additional penalties or bonuses due to thier own v&v, but that's uncertain as I haven't been testing that.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  6. #6
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    The general's morale v&v affects the hole army.
    so if he's a glutton then all his men will suffer the same -6 or so to valour....? I know that the general's vnvs affect the morale of units under his command, but as to the valour I was pretty sure it only counted for his own unit. an army led by a general with 'famous warrior' or the like and +3 valour would be too hard to overcome if this bonus counted for the whole of his troops - after all, that would equal the impact of a six-star leader!
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

  7. #7
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deus ret.
    so if he's a glutton then all his men will suffer the same -6 or so to valour....? I know that the general's vnvs affect the morale of units under his command, but as to the valour I was pretty sure it only counted for his own unit. an army led by a general with 'famous warrior' or the like and +3 valour would be too hard to overcome if this bonus counted for the whole of his troops - after all, that would equal the impact of a six-star leader!
    That isn't counted as a morale v&v (aka those who explicity says morale penatly/bonus in the description), but a valour one. That -8 morale penalty (due to the loss of valour) can make the general unit prone to rout though. Ad that will make him see an early retirement very quickly.

    Valour based v&v affects only the individual unit.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
    Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
    TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED

  8. #8
    Passionate MTW peasant Member Deus ret.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: chain routing causes

    seems like I misread your previous post. sorry!

    btw is that the way how vnv valour bonuses are counted? I mean, are they in the vein of valour points added by command stars or are they treated as if the unit actually had that much valour (which is mainly a question of morale bonus)?
    Vexilla Regis prodeunt Inferni.

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