I have been away from total war

**myz** · 09-23-2006, 23:02

I have been away from total war for two years now, and no suprise, I have been back to the ORG since the release of MTW2 is looming. Just to catch up, I scrolled through a bunch of movie previews and screenshots, but I noticed something. MTW2 doesn't really feel terribly different from RTW, and especially from the many excellent mods to RTW. So what gives...?

**econ21** · 09-24-2006, 00:43

I dunno, one or two of the trailers are so impressive it is hard to believe they are from the same engine as RTW - e.g. one that ended showing a line of knights on stationary horses: the little movements of the horses as they waited in line were almost like a film of real horses.

But the most promising thing so far, IMO, has been the blogs from developers etc that have mentioned improvements to the AI and combat balance etc. RTW does have superb mods, but they can't change the AI.

**A. Smith** · 09-24-2006, 02:37

Other differences:
-Religion seems to be much more important (both with catholic and non-catholic factions)
-AI
-Diplomacy and trading got improved
-New world! (although you might not like it)
-AI
-Assassination vids
-In-battle terrain
-AI
-fortressses (3 layers of defences!) and cities (huge income)
And quite a few more, but these are the ones that spring to mind.

**myz** · 09-24-2006, 07:51

thanks for you guys' posts, another question I have, is a technicality really. In RTW, I know in battle mode, on the battle map, units can engage in hit and run techniques like the horse archers, but once on the campaign map, an army cannot use the hit and run technique. For example, if I have an army made of horsearchers, and I square off against legionary cohorts, I would like to wear them down across several battles. But this cannot be done in RTW, since I have to first engage them in A battle, once I am engaged, I pretty much have to kill/rout them or be killed/routed, I can't just decide to withdraw with all my forces in tact, like sometimes even when I DO withdraw, my army will just disappear. Is this issue resolved in MTW2, for example, if I want to lead an army across a few turns into some favorable terrain to wear them down and finish them off, can I do that?

Also, in RTW, even if I successfully retreat, I will still take on random losses (ones that I did not incur personally) to units, I guess that is from the computer calculating "random losses." And even if my general is smart and tactical in trying to slowly wear down the enemy in multiple engagements, the moment he withdraws, he gains negative traits like cowardice, etc, even though his tactics are sound. I guess computer treats any retreat as a sign of weakness?

**screwtype** · 09-24-2006, 10:04

Originally Posted by myz

Also, in RTW, even if I successfully retreat, I will still take on random losses (ones that I did not incur personally) to units, I guess that is from the computer calculating "random losses." And even if my general is smart and tactical in trying to slowly wear down the enemy in multiple engagements, the moment he withdraws, he gains negative traits like cowardice, etc, even though his tactics are sound. I guess computer treats any retreat as a sign of weakness?

Yes, that is a limitation of the battle engine. It assumes you want to win the battle, not merely "wear the opposition down". It will probably be the same in M2, it's been more or less the same in all the TW games.

The only thing that really changed in RTW is that after retreat or defeat, sometimes the survivors are snuffed by the game. The reason they did that is because RTW is no longer a province based game and I guess they figured it wouldn't work very well to have remnants of armies left behind after every battle to try and deal with. In STW/MTW that wasn't a problem, because remnants would just retreat to the nearest friendly province.

**Sun of Chersonesos** · 09-24-2006, 12:13

also, the focus has been put on knights now

**Sun of Chersonesos** · 09-24-2006, 12:16

somewhat

**A. Smith** · 09-24-2006, 14:03

useless post FTW.

Yes, that is a limitation of the battle engine. It assumes you want to win the battle, not merely "wear the opposition down". It will probably be the same in M2, it's been more or less the same in all the TW games.

The only thing that really changed in RTW is that after retreat or defeat, sometimes the survivors are snuffed by the game. The reason they did that is because RTW is no longer a province based game and I guess they figured it wouldn't work very well to have remnants of armies left behind after every battle to try and deal with. In STW/MTW that wasn't a problem, because remnants would just retreat to the nearest friendly province.

Yhea, its quite unfortunate... especially with parthia and these factions... Ah, well, i guess you simply have to keep balanced armies... even if its not the faction's forte. its fine for some factions (seleucids, egyptians) but for others its really catastrophic.

**Orda Khan** · 09-26-2006, 09:26

Yhea, its quite unfortunate... especially with parthia and these factions... Ah, well, i guess you simply have to keep balanced armies... even if its not the faction's forte. its fine for some factions (seleucids, egyptians) but for others its really catastrophic.

An army of HA and a few heavy cav will quite easily deal with most situations in RTW

.........Orda

**econ21** · 09-26-2006, 11:22

Yes, horse archers get a real step up in power in RTW compared to MTW. Partly it's the Parthian shot. Partly it's the better AI use of them. Partly it's the Cantabrian circle but even with out the circle they seem a little harder to hit. Also they don't seem to be outranged by foot archers this time round.

Humans controlling horse archer armies should be able to do well against most foes (a Marian Roman army might be nasty though - their armour is pretty good against missiles).

Even under AI control, a horse archer army is one of the tougher propositions to face. Whatever happens, you are going to lose quite a few men. For example, if you are Seleucia, it is very tempting to hide behind your city walls, as an early Seleucid army really does not want to be taking on the Parthians in the field.

**L'Impresario** · 09-26-2006, 13:44

Partly it's the Parthian shot. Partly it's the better AI use of them. Partly it's the Cantabrian circle but even with out the circle they seem a little harder to hit. Also they don't seem to be outranged by foot archers this time round.

I believe that the AI isn't to be credited for their effective use, as it seems like the default "skirmish" setting works better than in MTW, where the HA would start moving away only from units that targetted it directly or the ones it was shooting. Therefore this doesn't require any AI evaluation of the situation, the HA just retreats when a unit enters its "awareness circle".
Cav also moves relatively faster, while the map scale remains more or less the same, plus missile range is similar. This creates a favourable situation for HA.