Mafia IV: Night of the Living Mafia [Concluded]

Originally Posted by discovery1

So Kommodus you went to the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor?

Heh, no bro, I just live in the state of Michigan. I went to LTU, a college most people probably haven't heard of.

Anyway, that argument about somehow not knowing about osmium because you're an aerospace engineer sounds hollow. In fact it sounds rather like one of the arguments I tried (unsuccessfully) to make in Mafia III - giving out personal information in an attempt to provide an alibi.

Sasaki, I realize this argument is rather weak, but it still somehow seems better than voting for Drisos.

Originally Posted by Kommodus

Sasaki, I realize this argument is rather weak, but it still somehow seems better than voting for Drisos.

Hey, no worries. What we need to avoid is the pattern from previous games, with one reason being supplied and everyone voting based on that, and that person not defending themselves because "that makes them seem overly defensive". I'm glad you started something on disco, adds more depth to this round. We're on 7 pages already.

Unvote: Sasaki Kojiro

Seems like I still have a chance of living - lol! that'd be the first time someone defends himself and he survives?

hmmm I don't really know who to vote elseway... going with Disco or Crazed Rabbit doesn't feel right either.. basically the only one that did anything that seemed suspicious to me is Masy. gah! but that'd be 'going with' Sasaki again... hmmm.

* reads last line of posts again...*

Vote: Csar

Not much to go on - He's giving quite weird commentary.. It makes me suspicious.

Wow, page seven already. When I went to bed the kills weren't even up yet.

So, Disco seems to be the prime suspect because of his liking for chemistry. And Drisos seems to get bandwagoned because of some remarks - probably casual ones - that he made before the game started. Ok, well nothing stunning, the usual first-lynch randomness. Nothing special in that regard.

Anyhow, Silver and Tiberius were killed. Silver's house was demolished and he himself was killed quite thoroughly. The Killer took his time with him. Why would someone do that ? Well, maybe Silver killed his tormentor last game, in Sasaki's one, and was killed because of that ?

Tiberius' death seems pretty random, can't get any clues out of that one. Water ? Osmium ?

Everyone could have quick-googled ''heaviest metal'' and found that one, so I say we shouldn't put our money on such a clue. Which was put in the kill solely so that we would frame someone for it. Think about it.

Also, Sasaki, I know we shouldn't let other games influence this one, but don't think your seemingly selfless efforts in this game 'll guarantee your survival.

Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

Hmm, you guys are on the roll there about the heavy metal and Chemistry thing.
Discovery is sure a candidate because of his line of study. I remember chatting with him about his study. There were a couple of others there that majored in Chemistry. If I could only remember who they were.

The killing of Silver Rusher is interesting though, maybe done by someone wanting to get back at Silver for some reason.
The write up is somewhat indicating poor English skills, with other words someone that have English as their second or third language.
I believe Silver got on the wrong foot with Ultrawar in ‘The Thing’ game.
It could be that Ultrawar want to get back at Silver for calling him a poor game-host. Or it could be a setup to frame Ultrawar by someone also noticing this.

Let’s hear what Ultrawar has to say.
Vote:Ultrawar

This is a intresting theory. It could be three things:

A)Me framing myself
B)Someone framing me
C)Me framing myself but being a mafiaso which would be dangerous for me to do as I would be a mafiaso but would hope that no-one picked up on it.

If I killed Silver Rusher, the Thing Game would have nothing to do with the killing.

It's just a shame I wasn't there when he was killed

Vote:Destroyer of Hope

I'm going to agree with Disco. What kind of name is 'Michigan' anyway?

Vote: Ice

Pfft, a lousy frame attempt on me if it is even one. I would've used white phosphorous and a tank of slowly draining water if I wanted a chemistry related death.

On the other hand, DoH's inconstant behavoir and easy vote for Kage are suspect.

Vote: Destroyer of Hope

Sasaki, I wouldn't jump on Drisos too much for not mounting a 'defense'- the evidence against him is very circumstantial and flimsy.

Crazed Rabbit

Hmm hmm hmm
Interesting developments. I've added a couple of names to my personal 'probably innocent/suspicious/no idea' list.

Personally I find Kage's behavior very odd. There have been a bit of meaningless friendly sparring in this thread (Are you a Mafioso then?/He's from Michigan!) and like I said, that's all fairly meaningless. But Kage leapt into one of his own, insisting he's the mafia and wants to be lynched. A lot of people have seemingly dismissed him because of that.

It would seem a big risk to take as a mafioso, but one that is likely to pay off. The 'I haven't been lynched yet' is a good excuse not to commit suicide, and diverts attention (by joking) away from him. I find it all very suspicious.

Drisos' defence felt fairly resigned and also genuine. Either he's engineered that post very well, or he's innocent. I'm tending towards innocent (for now ).

I think the Osmium is a false lead. I think someone has clearly gone out of their way to include it. Even a ChemEng wouldn't use Osmium in a mafia game. I think the more we ignore that bit of the post, the better. Though it does mean (in my oppinion) that someone in the mafia is deliberately trying to throw us, which isn't going to make things easy.

I also think that Ultra's language (I base this oppinion entirely from the Thing thread) doesn't fit that of the kill post. Let's face it, the 'pound' sounds like a spell check correction, and the grammar of that post is more smooth than the grammar Ultra uses in his Thing thread (nothing personal Ultra ).

To be honest, despite the strange behavior of Kage it's not enough for me to vote for him (it doesn't help his case though). Most of those who have posted long arguments have strengthened their cases in my eyes, which makes those who vote for bad reasons (those voting Ice for example) are the most suspect to me.

My Grandad once insisted to me that not voting was a vote for the extreem party, and I fear in mafia games that's all too true, but I can't find any individual high up enough on my 'suspicious' list to be worthy of a vote. So unfortunately:

UnVote:Drisos
Vote:Abstain

Kagemusha requested to be hung by the neck, which would be an odd tactic to use by the mafia so it is pointless voting for him.

Discovery and Ice voting each other every game would be a good cover for a few rounds, until one of them ends up dead, and then we can see how they change tactics.

Sasaki mentioned earlier on in the post about Drisos possibley slipping up seems a more logical vote. If the Mafia do make any mistakes, it will tend to be early on in the game, when they have a high percentage of surviving, and feel less inclined to think before they post. Therefore my vote goes to Drisos.

Hmm, well. I must say that I do get a genuine feeling from Drisos's post. However, he could just be playing us, and I really can't think of anyone else to vote for. So, my vote stands, even if I do think Drisos is innocent, as you never know, and abstaining wouldn't acheive anything.

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Sasaki, I wouldn't jump on Drisos too much for not mounting a 'defense'- the evidence against him is very circumstantial and flimsy.

Crazed Rabbit

I unvoted him when he defended himself and said as much.

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Hmm hmm hmm
Interesting developments. I've added a couple of names to my personal 'probably innocent/suspicious/no idea' list.

Personally I find Kage's behavior very odd. There have been a bit of meaningless friendly sparring in this thread (Are you a Mafioso then?/He's from Michigan!) and like I said, that's all fairly meaningless. But Kage leapt into one of his own, insisting he's the mafia and wants to be lynched. A lot of people have seemingly dismissed him because of that.

It would seem a big risk to take as a mafioso, but one that is likely to pay off. The 'I haven't been lynched yet' is a good excuse not to commit suicide, and diverts attention (by joking) away from him. I find it all very suspicious.

This "lynch me" behavior has been done before and the person turned out innocent. Often came very close to being lynched. People won't forget about what he said, he'll always be a possible lynch choice.

I suspect he was just trying to have some fun.

I think the Osmium is a false lead. I think someone has clearly gone out of their way to include it. Even a ChemEng wouldn't use Osmium in a mafia game. I think the more we ignore that bit of the post, the better. Though it does mean (in my oppinion) that someone in the mafia is deliberately trying to throw us, which isn't going to make things easy.

I agree. It's worth examining red herrings because you can learn something from them, but to vote on it is a fallacy.



@Dutch Guy--What's selfless about my behavior? I'm having a blast.


Oh and General H (or somebody) could we pleaaaaaaaase get a vote count?

You know, I checked wiki and you're all wrong!

Osmium isn't densest. It's just one of the densest. However, it can be googled because it is widely known as the densest. I think in space though, somehow osmium is defeated by iridium.

Anyway, further reading in this article (at applications) reveals the apparent lack of chemical knowledge by the mafioso. Osmium is extremely toxic, and rarely is used in its pure form. Also, as you would naturally expect from an extremely dense metal, it is very very very hard and brittle. You could not loop it around a person's neck without it snapping. Even if by some miracle you could, the toxic would probably be enough to kill them, and you wouldn't hold on. Why? BECAUSE IT'S TOXIC AND HARD! It would probably have cut the neck somehow and entered the bloodstream, or if it's potent enough even just burn right through the skin. It's also highly unlikely that someone can rip it apart when deprived of an oxygen supply.

Hence, it's probably someone trying to frame disco. However, he's an engineer who has no need of knowing the dense elements well. As he's an engineer, he'll be interested in smelly physics anyway. He probably wouldn't know this much about osmium, and so wouldn't include this detail. He'd be too busy playing DD and playing with his shrunken head to look it up as well, IMHO.

Here’s my take on the game so far:

I don’t think Drisos’ post has much significance, it seems as if me and him were put under suspicion for being the only people to make some comments at the start of the game. His comments were a bit suss, but I don’t think it’s enough to warrant a vote.

Voting on basis of osmium? I did a google search for heaviest metal and got osmium and iridium as my results. I believe these little things are just placed to keep us guessing.

As for Destroyer of Hope, I know why people would see his post as bit odd, but I understand why he’s done it; he isn’t sure of who to vote for, and doesn’t want to incur any anger, so votes for someone who seemingly wants to go (I did the same myself in SR’s Godfather, I voted for Ultrawar when he voted for himself)

Kage could be using some reverse psychology, but I don’t think a Mafioso could be that transparent. Nevertheless, he is my main lead at this point, purely for the oddness of his post (why sign up for a game and then want to leave in the first round?).

So i Vote: Kagemusha

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Unvote:Drisos

That's good enough for me.

Vote:Destroyer of Hope

Tiberius is right, you haven't participated in the last few games, how come you post now?

Voting for Kagemusha is an easy out. Very safe.

I don't buy disco, as he points out Crazed Rabbit is a more likely candidate using the weak logic that he has been accused with.


I'd also like to know what Masy has to say.

My lord Sasaki, you couldn't have shot yourself in the foot more with this post. As the game's most active participant, I would expect you to recollect that in The Godfather, Destroyer_of_Hope voted every single round until his death. In fact, he was one of the game's most active participants himself.

Nice work Tib, that trap seemed to work very effectively.

He was in The Godfather? No way.

ou know, I checked wiki and you're all wrong!

Osmium isn't densest. It's just one of the densest. However, it can be googled because it is widely known as the densest. I think in space though, somehow osmium is defeated by iridium.

Anyway, further reading in this article (at applications) reveals the apparent lack of chemical knowledge by the mafioso. Osmium is extremely toxic, and rarely is used in its pure form. Also, as you would naturally expect from an extremely dense metal, it is very very very hard and brittle. You could not loop it around a person's neck without it snapping. Even if by some miracle you could, the toxic would probably be enough to kill them, and you wouldn't hold on. Why? BECAUSE IT'S TOXIC AND HARD! It would probably have cut the neck somehow and entered the bloodstream, or if it's potent enough even just burn right through the skin. It's also highly unlikely that someone can rip it apart when deprived of an oxygen supply.

Hence, it's probably someone trying to frame disco. However, he's an engineer who has no need of knowing the dense elements well. As he's an engineer, he'll be interested in smelly physics anyway. He probably wouldn't know this much about osmium, and so wouldn't include this detail. He'd be too busy playing DD and playing with his shrunken head to look it up as well, IMHO.

Now that's very interesting. So it was a poorly done frame or a massively clever, pretending to be poorly done frame. Hmm, still not very useful.

Originally Posted by Tiberius

You know, I checked wiki and you're all wrong!

Osmium isn't densest. It's just one of the densest. However, it can be googled because it is widely known as the densest. I think in space though, somehow osmium is defeated by iridium.

Anyway, further reading in this article (at applications) reveals the apparent lack of chemical knowledge by the mafioso. Osmium is extremely toxic, and rarely is used in its pure form. Also, as you would naturally expect from an extremely dense metal, it is very very very hard and brittle. You could not loop it around a person's neck without it snapping. Even if by some miracle you could, the toxic would probably be enough to kill them, and you wouldn't hold on. Why? BECAUSE IT'S TOXIC AND HARD! It would probably have cut the neck somehow and entered the bloodstream, or if it's potent enough even just burn right through the skin. It's also highly unlikely that someone can rip it apart when deprived of an oxygen supply.

Hence, it's probably someone trying to frame disco. However, he's an engineer who has no need of knowing the dense elements well. As he's an engineer, he'll be interested in smelly physics anyway. He probably wouldn't know this much about osmium, and so wouldn't include this detail. He'd be too busy playing DD and playing with his shrunken head to look it up as well, IMHO.

Very interesting, Tib, I notice that Sigurd Fafnesbane and Kommodus appear to be the first to point the finger at Disco, specifically.

Unvote: Ice
Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

Myrdraal, if by punctuation you mean the comma spam in most of the kill reports, that's mine. I love commas, and I'm not going to stop that anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

He was in The Godfather? No way.

When attacked like that I would expect a feignt of ignorance and an attempt to quickly move on to another point like that from a mafioso.

You know, with this incredible rate of vote changing, round one will never end and the MVFJA members (me and SR) will die old and alone.

Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

When attacked like that I would expect a feignt of ignorance and an attempt to quickly move on to another point like that from a mafioso.

I dismissed your charge because it has no substance. Why would I feign ignorance of Destroyers posts in the Godfather Game? It's called motive, and without one you have no case.

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Why would I feign ignorance of Destroyers posts in the Godfather Game?

Easy: you couldn't think of a better answer.

Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

Easy: you couldn't think of a better answer.

Errm, what? I mean originally. When I voted Destroyer.

Giving the next round a victim.

...

Gah!

All I'm going to say is, don't take too much from the kill post itself. It was written by me, and the grammar errors were mine. All I did was implement the mafia's methods.

2 hours until voting ends. Tallying should be fun...

Originally Posted by GH

All I'm going to say is, don't take too much from the kill post itself. It was written by me, and the grammar errors were mine. All I did was implement the mafia's methods.

Ah that's interesting. So does that mean the mafia specified Osmium or was that your own addition?

Tiberius is right, Osmium would be an odd choice for an engineer. We tend to work with more common elements, or at least elements we know more about (hey, I just took what people said about Osmium for the truth, what the heck would i ever need it for ?).

This sounds more like the work of an early high schooler with a bit of a passion for science. Ultrawar was a big fan of things ending in -um in the Thing game. That makes me a bit suspicious of him. Also, in his post he doesn't deny he's mafia, just that he didn't kill Silver (doesn't matter since he would have killed Tiberius).

Unvote: Discovery1
Vote: Ultrawar

Now as for the other killing I have no clue. It's pretty elaborate, it's pretty violent, and it's totally over the top. Who hates Silver that much ?

Without revealing too much, I will say that the mafioso specified osmium.

@Tiberius-pshh

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

...

Gah!

All I'm going to say is, don't take too much from the kill post itself. It was written by me, and the grammar errors were mine. All I did was implement the mafia's methods.

2 hours until voting ends. Tallying should be fun...

Could you possibly list who voted for who and who didn't vote when you do the tally? Would be handy.

Just as a note for those who didn't notice: the mafia specified osmium, which means that he would have assumed osmium was malleable and soft, which it obviously isn't being hard and brittle. I hardly think that he would have just said 'osmium'. It was specified to be a lynching. What else could he have done anyway? make an osmium sword? That would be too public for a mafia.

So, we can still know that the mafia was not knowledgable of the chemistry of osmium. Or that he was pretending not to be, which seems overly clever, and I don't think we have any chemists here who would obviously know osmium back to front anyway.

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Drisos' defence felt fairly resigned and also genuine. Either he's engineered that post very well, or he's innocent. I'm tending towards innocent (for now ).

hehe indeed. If I would be mafia.. that would be very well engineered indeed. Seems like I'm even surviving the first lynch! hurray

I also think that Ultra's language (I base this oppinion entirely from the Thing thread) doesn't fit that of the kill post. Let's face it, the 'pound' sounds like a spell check correction, and the grammar of that post is more smooth than the grammar Ultra uses in his Thing thread (nothing personal Ultra ).

Well, I'm hosting a mafia game on another forum, and just noticed someone writing totally different then he usually did. (he used proper interpunction etc, instead of his usual 'slang') So Ultrawar might just be changing his language on purpose. However, his post didn't sound 'suspicious' to me.. he's talked like that before, being innocent.

My vote for Csar stands. I could change to abstain but it won't make a difference anyway..

my.. this game is getting really, really intresting already. Shame I don't have more time to spend on it..

btw I haven't even counted the votes.. still wondering if I'll survive or not.. the execution should be up anytime now.. exciting!

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Just as a note for those who didn't notice: the mafia specified osmium, which means that he would have assumed osmium was malleable and soft, which it obviously isn't being hard and brittle. I hardly think that he would have just said 'osmium'. It was specified to be a lynching. What else could he have done anyway? make an osmium sword? That would be too public for a mafia.

So, we can still know that the mafia was not knowledgable of the chemistry of osmium. Or that he was pretending not to be, which seems overly clever, and I don't think we have any chemists here who would obviously know osmium back to front anyway.

Nice work, Tib. me too, I don't see a real reason to suspect Disco because of this. I'd sooner suspect him because he's still alive, and Ice is in the game as well. (the mafia could've made an easy frame of ice... which worked before.. was that mafia I? I don't really recall. ) but that's of course not much to go on either.

So basically.. we have no ideas..