Help with Portuguese traders - religion

[Titan79]

Hi all!

I'm a great fan of Shogun since its first version (2000). After 2 years, I've bought the Warlord Edition but noticed that there seems to be something weird with the arrival of foreign traders (Portuguese and Dutch: the Portuguese keep docking at my ports (as at other clans') many and many times, not once as it was in the original Shogun. Even worse, the Dutch doesn't seem to have any intention to land in Japan at all .
Last of all, the other clans seem very loath on accepting Christianity; or they accept it but then switch back to Buddhism in a great religious mess...

Is there a way to fix this? I enjoy the WE and would really like to play it again. I've read in the forum that someone wrote about a patch - but I guess CA didn't release it yet, right?
Please help if you have any clues! Thank you very much in advance!

[Drisos]

Hmmm.. I know the dutch arrive quite some years later then the portugeze.. but if've you've played past 1560 and they're still not there it will indeed be a bug. I don't know the exact arrival date but it's not that late..

good luck!

[Titan79]

Hi Drisos,

thanks for your answer. Indeed, as a matter of fact, the problem isn't as much related to the Dutch just as to the Portuguese: they keep landing and landing and landing, not only at my ports but even at those of the other clans' (in WE). I know for sure this is a bug because I've played for a long time "basic" Shogun and this never happened (they arrived, made their offer and went back, did one accept or reject the proposal).
This is very annoing even because the other clans don't seem willing to accept once and for all the new religion... they have a strange behavior I'm not able to describe in detail now but it's flawed, that's for sure.

Solutions...?

[Drisos]

Very, very weird this is. As you explain it indeed it must be a bug. I have no clue to a solution though..

well.. at least you can play the mongol invasion campaign properly

[Titan79]

This is not as fun as you seem to consider it. 50 Euro wasted because campaign isn't running as it should... thank you very much, Creative Assembly.

But I'll remember of it when I'm buying another CA title... (I'm simply not buying any other CA game in my life... )

[Drisos]

Where did I say this was amusing? I don't think it is..

Did you really need 50 euro for this? .. I needed only 15 about 2 years ago.

.. Ok. I'll send a link of this page to someone who might know the solution. help is on it's way!

[Maeda Toshiie]

Yes, I have noticed this. I would hesitate to call it a bug, since it might have been a design change made by CA. I haven't noticed any funniness except that clans that reject initially may accept at a later date.

I have not seen any of the AI clans switching religion back and forth. The Shimazu is the most common clan (and the first) to turn Christian and I don't see them changing back.


The Dutch will appear, though I can't remember the exact date. Just be patient. I haven't seen them not appear in any of my campaigns (since I always get draggy in my games).

[Titan79]

Thank you both for your answers, Drisos and MAeda Toshiie. Unfortunately, the game in Italy had a price of 50 Euro when I bought it (2002); most probably now it's cheaper.
Anyway, it will be a great thing if you could really ask someone else if there's a solution to that problem... maybe it isn't a real bug, Maeda, you're right: but the whole stuff is so much different from vanilla Shogun that imho it can be called a flaw.

I'm looking for good news... Greetings!

[Maeda Toshiie]

STW is really at rock bottom prices nowadays. In the US (from what I hear), it is found in bargain bins. It can also easily be found, both the original and the Warlord Edition, on the Internet websites like Amazon etc.

[Titan79]

Yes, I know, but I've already got S:TW and S:TW WE years ago.

In any case, how could this solve the problem I've encountered?!?!?

[TosaInu]

Hello Titan79,

In reality, the Dutch arrived in 1600.

I don't know about the Portugese, as I always reject them. Them coming back seemed just some stubbornness to me.

Which patch are you using? There are 2 for WE/MI. 1.01 and 1.02 beta. I'ld go for 1.02 beta as that one fixes some bugs. You can always use the older 1.0 or 1.01 unitstats.

[Titan79]

Well, no problem for the Dutch, I don't even play as long to see them arrive. It is the Portuguese that make me stop playing because of the fact that they keep landing all the time and this really pi**es me off; this wouldn't be a real problem, anyway, if it wasn't a bug, but I guess it is.

BTW, I'm using 1.2 since it has been released and the problem's always there.

[Togakure]

The Dutch begin arriving around 1560-61 in the game (Sengoku Jidai campaign), beginning in the West, and working their way East as time passes. A port must be present for them to land and make their offer.

Heh, I guess one way to keep the Portuguese from bugging you is not to build any ports. If the cut to the Throne Room is what annoys you, just turn off the Throne Room in Options and you'll only get a dialog box, which is much less of an annoyance.

Been playing STW for a very long time, and have never seen a clan change back to Buddhism after turning Christian. I play WE, 1.02.

Just finished a Shimazu campaign today. Turned Christian almost immediately. Built Portuguese trading posts in Tosa and Owari. Once I built churches and a Cathedral the cash really started rolling in. Tosa and Owari also produce +1 honor Musketeers. The Dutch never showed up in this game, but I was playing a WE 1550 campaign (not the traditional Sengoku campaign).

[Titan79]

TogakureOjonin,

could you do me a favour? Could you play some decades of a 1530 campaign (Sengoku Jidai or the other one) and tell me your WE 1.2's behavior...? If the Dutch eventually show and the Portuguese don't mess up too much with their continuous landings, then it means the game is substantially ok and that there's no real bug (even if things have been imho screwed up a bit in comparison with original S:TW). Just to know if your game runs the same way as mine.

Thank you in advance!

[Togakure]

It might take a month to do this--I work full time and am engaged in other activities, and try hard to balance my interests these days. But yes, I don't mind providing you with feedback.

Do you mean a WE 1530 Sengoku Jidai campaign? Or a WE 1530 campaign? There are two campaigns that begin in 1530 in WE. In the 1530 Sengoku campaign, the starting provinces are the same as in the original STW. In the 1530 campaign, the clans only occupy a few provinces in the beginning (the Oda, for example, begin the WE 1530 campaign with only Owari).

What I do to avoid multiple offers from the Portuguese is, I accept their first offer--I just don't build any of their buildings. This won't cause your clan to become Christian. That happens when you begin building a Church or Trading Post. I've confirmed this by looking on the Diplomacy tab. Though I've accepted their offer, the cross doesn't appear next to my clan's mon until I start building one of the Christian buildings. You can also confirm this by watching your provinces' Loyalty ratings drop initially.

WE has a very different feel from the original STW. As in most cases, some like the differences, some don't. I like WE because the game transitions faster--buildings take half as long to build for the most part, so the game evolves from basic to advanced troops faster. WE doesn't produce the massive hordes at end game, unless you really take a long time to conquer. The things I like best about WE are the additional campaigns: 1530 sparse, 1550, 1580, and the Mongol invasion. It also has some nice historical battles. Unlike many who place a lot of value on historical accuracy, I enjoy having the option to use Naginata Cavalry, Battlefield Ninja, and Kensai (though I use BFN and Kensai very rarely, and usually only for kicks).

Upgrading to 1.02 BETA might help too. I definitely like the performance of Naginata Cavalry better in 1.02. They are just too slow and silly looking in the original 1.00 release.

[Titan79]

Thanks for the info, TogakureOjonin.

Of course, I understand that playing, say, a 20 years campaign isn't a thing that can be done in 1 hour, so don't mind - I think in addition this is no more necessary since you told me the tip to override the annoying "Portuguese landing bug". I'll try to accept their offer without building any christian facilities and see what happens. I can honestly say that, if they keep landing at other clans' ports but this is no real bug (=the clans simply reject the offer) and the Dutch will sooner or later show up, I'm no longer "afraid" of playing again the WE.

As for the patch, I already play with 1.02 beta, thanks.

Tomorrow I'll be starting a new game. If I don't post again, then it means everything is ok. Thank you very much!

[Drisos]

I'll do it fo you, Titan79. I have more time on my hands then Togakure for now. I'll play a SJ campaign and closely watch the portugese behaviour, and report it here.

[Togakure]

You da man Dries, thanks. But we are friends so you should be calling me Toga! I'd change my name, but then everyone would think I was a corny-looking garment. Corny maybe, but not a garment.

[Drisos]

Yeah m8, but I was worried Titan79 might be confused who I meant when I said just 'Toga' But btw, it seems like he's not having pressing problems with it anymore, he said he'd post if he still did.

I hope we manage to get together in the foyer sometime. I'll alert you when I'm available on the weekend sometime.

Btw, very nice post you made in frontroom in the thread about 'being homeless'.. I've been reading that particular poem every day for the last couple of weeks. beatiful!

[Togakure]

[OFF TOPIC]
Thanks m8. You haven't seen that one before? It's been in our Zen Garden in the village for ages now, lol.

I will need to partition my drive and create a fat32 partition before I can access the STW foyer I think. The [ENTER] trick doesn't seem to work for me . No worries, I'll resolve it, it just may take a little time.

What are the chances of you picking up MTW and VI any time soon? I would like to introduce you to the Hunters. They're a fabulous bunch, and you would make a fine Hunter. Of course, I would put in my strongest recommendation for you, should you ever be interested in joining us. Something to think about, anyway.
[/BACK ON TOPIC]

[Titan79]

Back to topic , I've started a SJ campaign with clan Mori right now... so within a matter of days I should know if the suggested "Portuguese tip" works and if, in that case, I'll waste again many nights playing S:WE

[Ninjak]

Greetings. It’s been a while since I played this game but I also had this problem before. The deal with the Portuguese traders arriving from Moluccas, Macau, and Goa is that if you build a port in a province that is connected to the sea, and you have a few buildings built in that province, then the Portuguese will keep coming to your dojo/throne room. They’ll keep coming until you build the trading post for them or the building queue slot in that port province is all filled up with other buildings. Build only a few ports in your domain (i.e. 4 or 5 ports) in certain provinces where the Portuguese and Dutch traders are more likely to dock their ship for the first time like in the southern Sumatsu provinces or in province that have a rich sea port. That way the Portuguese will stop coming. Personally, I would just reject the proselytizing Catholic traders and wait for the industrious Protestants since English and Dutch traders are only interested in trade and commerce not converting the natives.

[Titan79]

Useful clue, Ninjak, thanks!

I've always had exactly the problem you described (and, btw, I've always preferred the Dutch too, just as you do, since they don't want you to change your religious confession).

The problem on how to stop the "Portuguese-keep-landing bug" ,however, seems to be solved by the tip suggested by TogakureOjonin (say "accept" to their offer but without building any trading posts, nor churches: thus, no more dockings at my ports!). Thanks anyway - if the problem arises again I'll follow your advice!

[Titan79]

I've just ended my 1530 campaign with Mori and everything went OK. Portuguese and Dutch arrived (although the Dutch landed much later than in the original Shogun TW - about 20 years after) and there were no strange religious behaviours from the Clans... so thank you all for the clues!

[Drisos]

Glad to hear!

Have fun.