Trick: How to get different visual variation within an unit

**shifty157** · 10-04-2006, 15:26

Its a good idea though i very much doubt that it will work.

Firstly looking at the screenshots i very much doubt that every different unit has a different mesh. Actually i know they dont. They are simply applying different textures to the same mesh.

Whether or not the meshes within a single soldier are divided into several files and assembled dynamically by the game engine is also very doubtful. First off that doesnt seem a very efficient way of doing things overall. More importantly that would most likely mean that (using your example of having the entire soldier within the head mesh) you would not be able to skin and animate the entire rest of the body. Even if somehow you could there would be huge limitations. All the units still have to use a single set animations for one so you couldnt have units with very different weapons together.

In my opinion the game will reference a single unit model and then proceed to apply the different textures to the model. How exactly it will be divided up is still uncertain though i would assume that the different body regions (head, legs, arms, torso, shield, primary weapon, secondary weapon) will have to be in seperate meshes (all in the same file of course) that way the engine will no which textures to apply to which mesh (most likely on a mesh name basis like in RTW). My guess is also that each body region will now have its own seperate texture and six different textures for each. That means a grand total of 42 textures per unit though granted each will be much smaller than a normal RTW texture which included the entire unit.

**Myrddraal** · 10-05-2006, 03:03

They are simply applying different textures to the same mesh.

I could swear I've seen different helmet meshes within units. Also some archers in the units have hoods and some don't no?

**shifty157** · 10-05-2006, 06:48

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I could swear I've seen different helmet meshes within units. Also some archers in the units have hoods and some don't no?

I attributed that to alpha channels. Itd be pretty simple to do.

I mean you would assume that there would be alot more variation if completely different meshes were used. At least maybe different shaped shields and such but you dont see any of that. As you mentioned the only real shape variation you see is perhaps a slightly pointed helmet instead of a rounded one. Really small simple stuff basically.

You can really do alot with creative use of alpha channels.

**Duke John** · 10-05-2006, 08:39

No, the variation is greater. As Myrddraal said, some archers wear hoods, others have helmets. In some (old) screenshots you can also see some seams, showing that head and body are seperated.

I attributed that to alpha channels. Itd be pretty simple to do.

I doubt it, it would unnecessarily burden the computer as it still needs to calcuate the mesh even when having a transparent texture. It is far easier to just make seperate elements and disable all but one variation.

Whether or not the meshes within a single soldier are divided into several files and assembled dynamically by the game engine is also very doubtful.

R:TW already dynamically switches between primary and secondary weapon. My guess is that a model has several head parts. M2:TW will then select a head part for each soldier at random. The others are not shown or removed (depends on what is best for performance).

**skeletor** · 10-11-2006, 17:09

One problem with using this method might be the same as weapons in RTW. I experimented alot with making unit's put primary weapons on their back while using secondary.

Still this wasn't possible due to the limitations to the bones bones you could weight the meshes to. If the same limitations apply to these parts, you won't be able to weight a helmetpart to any other bone then the head.

However the possibilitys with creative alphaing still opens for a huge ammount of variety using complex meshes, and alpha. Im rtw i managed to make a horsemodel witch, by only using alpha apeared to be 10 diffrent models.

-Skel-

**Duke John** · 10-12-2006, 07:58

Using the alpha channel to make parts invisible is a bad for performance. The faces are still calculated, they just have an invisible texture. I wouldn't use it, it's an unefficient trick.

**skeletor** · 10-12-2006, 11:31

Sure you must compromise variation with preformance, and consider how mutch details you can put in one part of the model compared to other parts. If i have special parts or accessories that is crucial to defy a unit, i allways try to find ways to lower the polycount in other parts of the model, so that i can add that crucial part. I allso consider how many of that unit witch will appear on the battlefield. If it's an eliteunit with small unitsize, i dont care so mutch about the polycount, and focus more on making this unit look good.

Allso creative use of alpha can allso reduce the number of polys in pieces that can be sculptured by using alpha instead of meshes. A blade for a sabre forinstance can be made by a broad single twosided plane (8 poly's) and sculptured with alpha to both reduce the polycount and make the angles smoother. You can then allso change the shape of the blade to wathever you whant, with only changing the alpha texture. So, by using this method, you can have a variaty of diffrent sabres, and less polycoun. (Win - win situation.)

Sure the blade will be totally flat, and might disapear if you view it dead on, but the gain in variation and preformance makes up for that imo. This method must ofcource be considured from model to model, but i when possible, i allways use this method.

-Skel-