Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

  1. #1
    Member Member the_mango55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    94

    Default New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?p...medieval2/1/2/

    The Varangian Guard, most famous of all Byzantine units, was a military levy sent to the Byzantine emperor from the ‘Rus’. Now a permanent unit often used as royal bodyguards, they were initially composed solely of Scandinavians and later on other Europeans. These superbly skilled and fearless warriors wield two-handed axes with vicious abandon, hacking down the Emperor's enemies.
    "You're drunk again!"
    "Na Im just exhausted from staying up all night drinking!" - Family guy

  2. #2
    I too am a Member Masy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    320

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Ta for linky the_mango55, this is another impressive unit.
    "Once upon a time, on the internet there was a guy, a very deeply flawed man, they called him Eric Bauman..." -www.ebaumsworldsucks.com

  3. #3

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    One good think i noticed is that there is hardly any of that horrible purple Byzantine faction colour on it.........Other than that looks like a pretty average unit. Who were the 'Rus' btw??

    MARMOREAM•RELINQUO•QUAM•LATERICIAM•ACCEPI

  4. #4
    Just an Oldfart Member Basileus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    In The Kastro
    Posts
    1,213

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by CaesarAgustus
    One good think i noticed is that there is hardly any of that horrible purple Byzantine faction colour on it.........Other than that looks like a pretty average unit. Who were the 'Rus' btw??
    Rus where the Varangians who migrated from scandinavia and ruled over the slavic and finnic tribes in eastern europe, im no pro on the subject though :D
    Unit looks good.

  5. #5
    Member Member Darth Nihilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The New World
    Posts
    190

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    I loved these things in the original. They took 2 years to produce too, but we don't have to worry about that anymore. I'm eager to see the stats on these guys. I liked their axe more in the original though.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke

  6. #6

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Basileus
    Rus where the Varangians who migrated from scandinavia and ruled over the slavic and finnic tribes in eastern europe
    Cool they should make a Rus faction.

    MARMOREAM•RELINQUO•QUAM•LATERICIAM•ACCEPI

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by CaesarAgustus
    Cool they should make a Rus faction.
    Sorta like this, you mean:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=68900

    The VG looks fine to me, but what happened to his shield? Hopefully he'll find it before M2TW comes out.

  8. #8

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Ah......Rus=Russsians.........I knew that

    MARMOREAM•RELINQUO•QUAM•LATERICIAM•ACCEPI

  9. #9
    Pining for the glory days... Member lancelot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Land of Hope & Glory
    Posts
    1,198

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by CaesarAgustus
    One good think i noticed is that there is hardly any of that horrible purple Byzantine faction colour on it.........Other than that looks like a pretty average unit. Who were the 'Rus' btw??
    Purple was the Imperial colour IIRC.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty" Lord Nelson

    "Extinction to all traitors" Megatron

    "Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girls sports, such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing and such and such." Homer Simpson

  10. #10
    Member Member scourgeofrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Location Unknown
    Posts
    187

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Oooo,ahhhh,etc. They look grat. Thse Coyote warriors are wieird looking though. Can't wait to kill them (Coyote W. vs. Gothic Night. Sweet. )

  11. #11

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    QUOTE=lancelot]Purple was the Imperial colour IIRC.[/QUOTE]


    Ya but the faction colours are too bright and they usually cover most of the unit' uniform. I hated the way the Parthians looked in Rome.......like a desert faction's troops would really go into battle wearing bright purple all over.

    Same goes for the byzantines.......The Emperor and maybe the nobles would wear purple, but your average soldier wouldn't. Thats why i like the Varangian Guard's realism.

    Then again, it's just a game, but I wish that they would just get rid of the whole faction colour thing entirely.

    And econ21, are you sure that the Rus and Russians aren't just different peoples with a similar name......for example, today's Roma and Romans?

    MARMOREAM•RELINQUO•QUAM•LATERICIAM•ACCEPI

  12. #12
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,294

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    No mate the Rus were the first Russians, they are the same thing.

  13. #13

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia
    No mate the Rus were the first Russians, they are the same thing.
    Weren't the Rus the Scandianvians who conquered the area around Ukraine? I know they became the Russians, but I was under the impression that it was in the same way the Normans in Ireland became Irish, the slow assimilation of the small conquering elite class into the majority population's culture.

    I could easily be mistaken, though.

  14. #14
    Boondock Saint Senior Member The Blind King of Bohemia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,294

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Yes, but I don't think before that the Slavic populations were known as Rus in the same way the Irish already had their own strong identity.

    Quick quote from the Russian Primary Chronicle:

    Thus they went overseas to the Varangians, to the Rus. These particular Varangians were known as Rus, just as some are called Swedes, and others Normans and Angles, and still others Gotlanders, for they were thus named. The Chuds, the Slavs, the Krivichs and the Veps then said to the Rus, "Our land is great and rich, but there is no order in it. Come reign as princes, rule over us". Three brothers, with their kinfolk, were selected. They brought with them all the Rus and migrated (The Primary Chronicle, 859-862).
    Last edited by The Blind King of Bohemia; 10-05-2006 at 00:25.

  15. #15

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Actually I just looked it up, the Rus were a confederation of Slavic peoples that settled in Eastern Europe, and are the ancestors of modern-day Ukranians, Belarusians, and Russians.

    Maybe that's even the root of Belarus and Russia.

    MARMOREAM•RELINQUO•QUAM•LATERICIAM•ACCEPI

  16. #16
    Cheeky Bastage Member Hobot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    There are no maybes to it. This is how the Russian "nation" first came into existance. Although the "histories" of this time period are semi-mythological, it is clear that certain Scandinavian types who traded and travelled on the Volga river from the Baltic to the Black sea areas, eventually came to politically dominate the local population of utterly uncivilized and uncultured Slavs in the ninth century. Thus the first "Russians" came to emerge as an actual nation. First their kingdom came to be based in the Ukraine at Kiev. However, after infighting and trouble with steppe people that Kindgom eventually colapsed, but it's smaller brother principality centered around the trade city of Novgorod came to take their place as the Russian nation. With the arrival of the Mongols in the steppe areas of the Ukraine, the Russians were completely driven into the northern forests (areas where the Mongols had far more difficulty fighting) where they dwelt as a subject nation to the Golden Horde for about 200 years. This covers most of the period in MTW2. So in a long winded way -- the Rus were the founders of anything that today is referred to as Russian, since before their coming, the area was completely and utterly unimportant in the scope of world politics (and the root "rus" does indeed always refer back to these people).

    P.S. My Russian history class was over 5 years ago, if I screwed up some minor details, I apologize :)
    Every man dies, not every man really lives.

  17. #17
    Member Member Polemists's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    In the Lou
    Posts
    1,213

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Also if you read historic backrounds

    There is currently a political marriage between Russia and Byzatinum Royalty so it makes perfect sense :)

    Actually at one point in time the King of Denmark was one of the body guards of the ruler of Byzantium, i'm sure the true historians can tell me who and when I don't member.

  18. #18
    Member Member paullus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    always in places where its HOT
    Posts
    11,904

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    No king of Denmark was a bodyguard for the Basileus, but there are two things you could be thinking of:
    1) Haraldr Hardrada, who did serve as an officer within the Guard before heading home to claim the throne at home and invade England (only to be defeated by Godwinson in 1066), but he wasn't a Dane.
    2) En route to the Holy Land on the (second?) Crusade, the king of Denmark (name slips me) visited with the emperor, who treated him far better than the other crusader kings, because he was the king of his bodyguards.
    "The mere statement of fact, though it may excite our interest, is of no benefit to us, but when the knowledge of the cause is added, then the study of history becomes fruitful." -Polybios


  19. #19
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Writing the book, every day...
    Posts
    1,986

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Rus literally means red or red haired. It is the namesake of RUSsia.
    Very good unit thoe.

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  20. #20

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by CaesarAgustus
    Who were the 'Rus' btw??
    The Rus were the swedish tribe of Vikings who settled in the Slavic dominated area of Russia and in the vicinity. Many historians believe that "Russia" came from "Rus".
    Since they had technologically superior and more agressive ways at warfare, they easily assimilated the Slavs, or chased them away.
    Being on the northern doorstep of Byzantium, and being of fearsome reputation, the Byzantines first befriended the majority, and then recruited them for local campaigns, eventually making a permanant bodyguard in Constantinople.
    And yes, I like how there was little my purple myself.
    The actual uniform of the Varangian guards was red. And the shield was red with a black raven, and the master weapon was a two-headed axe.

  21. #21
    Member Member Polemists's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    In the Lou
    Posts
    1,213

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Thanks pallus your prolly rite got my facts mixed up. Oh wells.

  22. #22
    King of Jerusalem Member BaldwinIV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    O, my lovely Varangians without you I'm no one...

    Oh how I wish to dream again
    Once and for all
    And all for once

  23. #23
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    7,967

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Clan
    The Rus were the swedish tribe of Vikings who settled in the Slavic dominated area of Russia and in the vicinity. Many historians believe that "Russia" came from "Rus".
    Since they had technologically superior and more agressive ways at warfare, they easily assimilated the Slavs, or chased them away.
    Being on the northern doorstep of Byzantium, and being of fearsome reputation, the Byzantines first befriended the majority, and then recruited them for local campaigns, eventually making a permanant bodyguard in Constantinople.
    Not... quite, by what I know of it. First off, there never was a "Swedish tribe of Vikings called Rus" far as I know - the adventurous Scandinavians who sailed abroad to trade and/or pillage tended to come from rather diverse backgrounds, one of the more common elements being poverty and lack of future prospects in the increasingly overpopulated Scandinavia. I've read however that the origin of the word rus would be the same as that of the Finnish name for Sweden Ruotsi, stemming from root word dhruots which apparently referred to either a particular region in Sweden, the crew complement of a ship, or some combination thereof (the Finnish name for Russia, Venäjä, then has entirely different roots). The Vikings' "East Road" to the Russian rivers and all the way down to the Black and Caspian Seas ran along the Finnish-speaking coastlines of the Gulf of Finland, so such an origin is at least conceivable.

    Second, what their major and really only real advantage was is naval technology; the various steppe nomads owned the plains, but the Vikings could dominate the rivers. This obviously gave them rather a bit of influence in trade and war and made their assistance sought after (since among other things hostile territories could be bypassed via their shipping), and as they ranged up and down the rivers both as traders, raiders and mercenaries they naturally wanted base areas. Urban settlements along the great Russian river weren't exactly anything new and these were typically located in strategic locations to begin with, so naturally the Scandinavians sought to establish presence in them by fair means or foul. Which in turn got them mixed with often rather complicated local politics that tended to involve both the inhabitants of the city, settled groups in its vicinity, and the various nomad lords who ranged on the surrounding plain, as well as then of course other settlements and Viking groups...

    Anyway, the end result was at least partially Scandinavian leaders and ruling elites in several major centers and the founding of several others to serve as shipping bases and trade emporiums. As usual they became rather mixed up with the multitudous hodge-podge of peoples of the region rather quickly through the usual means of intercourse and adopted local languages and customs (and naturally contributed some of their own), but in any case managed to leave behind a degree of group identification. The succesful centers naturally enough started fighting each other over precedence, territory and so on, and unsurprisingly the other power groups (such as the powerful Khazar Khaganate - which somewhat oddly converted to Judaism, and eventually had a bit of a religous schism and civil war - or the Hungarian-Magyars or any of the other major steppe powers of the period) of the area tended to get involved. I've heard one theory about the Kievans' adoption of Christianity that involved a power struggle with the also staunchly pagan (the Kievan ruler, whatshinsme, Vladimir or something, had reputedly planned to anchor his power base on the same ancient thunder deity or something similar) and until then friendly Novgorod that was not going too well, which persuaded the ruler of Kiev to somewhat hastily send a word to the Byzantine Emperor that he would be interested in receiving missionaries coupled with military aid. Which quite suited Byzantine designs; they were constantly heavily involved in the politics of the Russian area for fairly obvious reasons, not rarely also militarily.

    The Byzantines were also always happy to add foreign mercenaries to their armies, and they seem to have gotten a good impression of the Rus' and Vikings' proficiency as heavy infantry from their numerous conflicts with them (unsurprisingly the Rus were rather quick to pick up local military practices and customs such as composite bows and cavalry warfare from their neighbours, mind you; hard to be a power on the steppes without). Why exactly the Emperors decided to make them a part of their palace guard is another question, but they weren't all that picky about where the recruits came from so long as they were familiar with the military tradition - after the Norman conquest of England Anglo-Saxon refugees became rather common, for example.

    1) Haraldr Hardrada, who did serve as an officer within the Guard before heading home to claim the throne at home and invade England (only to be defeated by Godwinson in 1066), but he wasn't a Dane.
    He was Norwegian - reputedly bribed his way to the crown of Norway with riches he brought back from his tenure in the "Golden City" too.

    The Danes and Norwegians seem to have preferred sailing westwards to the British Isles or along the European coastline. That of course eventually led them down to the Mediterranean (although the Moors tended not look well on their passing the Gibraltar), but there they apparently mainly stuck to the western basin. The eastern route to Russia tended to be more of a Swedish preoccupation, but of course this was anything but a hard and fast rule.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  24. #24
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,132

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    According to Riasanovsky, the Scandinavian origin of the Rus is hotly debated, and far from certain. He explains both the arguments in favor of and against the Norman theory. Some of the problems with it follow. There is no known group in Scandinavia known as the Rus, and the name is not present in any western sources. Byzantine and Oriental writers refer to the Rus before 862 (the year the Primary Chronicle states that the Rus arrived) as a group located in southern Russia. The linguistic arguments to tie the Rus to Scandinavia are highly suspect. The Primary Chronicle itself (the origin of the theory) has some serious internal failings.

    There is also little evidence of Scandinavian culture in the culture of Kiev. There are only a few (6 or 7) Norman words in the Russian language, the vast majority being of Greek, Oriental, or Slavic origin. Written literature in Kiev preceded written literature in Scandinavia. Eastern Slavic deities were known as early as the 6th century, so are not an inheritance of Norse mythology.

    This is not to say there was no Scandinavian presence in early Russia, or to deny the theory. But the issue is not settled, and it might be unwise to assume too much.

    Ajax

    "I do not yet know how chivalry will fare in these calamitous times of ours." --- Don Quixote
    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

  25. #25
    Dracula Member Dracula(Romanian Vlad Tepes)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dark corners of the earth.
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: New 3d unit: Varangian Guard

    Looks great

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO