New comp ideas

[Leftenant Moley]

Hi,

I’m considering in buying a new Pc, especially to run the new Medieval 2, that new C&C game is looking quite nice too but Medieval is a definite

What things should I consider like

What key things should I look for in a motherboard?

AMD(sempro, athlon, etc which is faster) or Intel(Pentium...not celeron cus its slower) ?

And what about the graphics card? Is Radeon X1600XT better than Geforce 7600GT? Will 256MB do I should I look at 512?

Which operating system for games? Home or pro (sp2)


Also what do you think of this system I made on vantage computers (ever heard of them? Any good?) Anything here that’s overkill or underpowered? Apparently they will build for £840 which is nice cus im only wanting to spend £900( however I flexible)

System Case: Vantage Evolution Inspire Case
Power Supply: 400W Zoostorm PSU (26-32dB)…don’t know power requirements for the graphics card but its easily and cheap to up
Motherboard: Asus M2N-E Motherboard (Skt AM2)
Processor: AMD 64-Bit 3500+ (Skt AM2)
System Memory: 2Gb Corsair DDR2 667 Dual Channel Memory (2x 1Gb)
Hard Drive One: 74Gb Serial ATA150 10000RPM Western Digital
Removeable Storage Devices: Floppy Disc Drive
CD Device One: DVDRW Drive (16x +/- Dual Layer)
CD Device Two: Please Select
Video Card: Radeon X1600XT 256Mb DDR +DVI/TV PCI-X
Audio Device: Creative SoundBlaster Audigy SE 7.1
PCI Devices: Please Select
Keyboard & Mouse Set: Keyboard & Optical Mouse Set
Speakers: Logitech S100 Desktop Set
Monitor: 15 Inch TFT Monitor (16ms)
Operating System: Windows XP Home SP/2 - OEM

[Ludens]

Hello Leftenant Moley. I think you may get a more replies if you post your question here.

[Leftenant Moley]

Thx Ludens, i already contacted Papewaio who moved the thread for me.

Ok after some research I think this system would be better, the processor has been upped I changed to from ATi X1600XT to geforce 7600GT(was only 9 notes more expensive). And now the system costs £997.12 (fine)

System Case: Vantage Evolution Inspire Case
Power Supply: 400W Zoostorm PSU (26-32dB)
Motherboard: Asus M2N-E Motherboard (Skt AM2)
Processor: AMD 64-Bit Dual Core X2 4200+ (Skt AM2)
System Memory: 2Gb Corsair DDR2 800 Memory (2x 1Gb)
Hard Drive One: 74Gb Serial ATA150 10000RPM Western Digital
Hard Drive Two: None Selected
Removeable Storage Devices: Floppy Disc Drive
CD Device One: DVD Drive (16x)
CD Device Two: None Selected
Video Card: GeForce 7600GT 256Mb DDR +DVI/TV
Audio Device: Creative SoundBlaster Audigy SE 7.1
PCI Devices: None Selected
PCI Devices: None Selected
Keyboard & Mouse Set: Keyboard & Optical Mouse Set
Speakers: Logitech S100 Desktop Set
Monitor: 17 Inch TFT Viewsonic VA702 (12ms)
Operating System: Windows XP Home SP/2 - OEM

However I still got some questions

Which operating system for games? WinXP Home or pro (sp2)

Why does AMD perform better than intel even although the clock frequencies are lower? how do i check if my AMD processor is sufficient for future games. Because on the boxes it just states Processor 2Ghz Required etc and AMD clock frequencies are way lower than Intel(It seems the AMD 64-Bit Dual Core X2 4200+ has a clock frequency of 2.2Ghz yet preforms better than Intel 3.4Ghz)

Does the hard drive of 10000rpm matter for playing games? or can i save notes by selecting the 7200rpm one?

How much of a difference does the DDR800 ram make over the DDR667?

should i look to get 512 MB card or stick with the 256Mb?

[x-dANGEr]

Before I answer any of your questions, you must know my answers aren't the most reliable around here, but they can hint to a few things...

For a start, I guess a new Intel Conroe as a processor would do you a better job, it consumes less power, thus produces less heat and is faster all in all and cheaper.

I use Windows XP Professional SP2 and yet to face problems with games..

Does the hard drive of 10000rpm matter for playing games? or can i save notes by selecting the 7200rpm one?

I don't think it matters that much. Or in short, the difference isn't worth the extra noise IMO.. (Neither the extra price)

How much of a difference does the DDR800 ram make over the DDR667?

Little I guess.

should i look to get 512 MB card or stick with the 256Mb?

If you're not looking for a soon change, I'd suggest the 512 one..

[Geezer57]

Which operating system for games? WinXP Home or pro (sp2)

Either XP Home or XP Pro should be fine for modern games, there really shouldn't be any difference. That said, however, I've been using Pro for years, without issue.

Why does AMD perform better than intel even although the clock frequencies are lower? how do i check if my AMD processor is sufficient for future games. Because on the boxes it just states Processor 2Ghz Required etc and AMD clock frequencies are way lower than Intel(It seems the AMD 64-Bit Dual Core X2 4200+ has a clock frequency of 2.2Ghz yet preforms better than Intel 3.4Ghz)

That's the result of processor efficiency, or IPC (Instructions Per Clock) - being able to do more work per clock cycle, in other words. Back in the days of the Pentium III vs. AMD Athlon wars, Intel found itself losing the battle - their architecture was second in reaching the 1Ghz "barrier", and had lower headroom. Their first issue of the 1066Mhz P3 processors had to be withdrawn, when enthusiast sites found them returning errors with certain math operations and reported the findings publicly. Intel had major egg-on-the-face syndrome at that moment. The people at the top decided that wasn't going to happen again, and made a major push for an architechture that emphasized speed over efficiency - lowering IPC for the first time ever in a new Intel processor series. Thus the Pentium 4 was born, and it really wasn't very pretty. The first series of P4's had trouble exceeding the later P3's, which really wasn't sorted out until the Northwood cores came out. They competed fairly well with the AMD Athlon XP's, with both sides swapping the "lead" for bragging rights. But when AMD introduced the Athlon 64, Intel's P4's were pretty much stuck in 2nd place. And there is where they've been for a while now, at least for the desktop enthusiast crowd, until just recently - when the Coroe core Core 2 Duo processors (now that's a mouthfull, isn't it?) were released! Now Intel is solidly wearing the performance crown, and they did it with lower-speed, lower-power, and higher efficiency. Their decision to de-emphasize IPC and focus on megahertz has proven to be a major wrong turn, one they've fortunately learned from.

Does the hard drive of 10000rpm matter for playing games? or can i save notes by selecting the 7200rpm one?

For games, there will be virtually no difference between a moderately priced 7200 rpm drive and a high-dollar 10K one. The only very minor benefit will occur in initial load time (and maybe occasional game-level loads, if the game requires loading new levels), during gameplay it's doubtful you'd see any difference. This is more about bragging rights for gamers, than any real-world performance benefit. Not to say these drives don't have their niche (they very much do), just that it's not in your ordinary consumer desktop.

How much of a difference does the DDR800 ram make over the DDR667?

Again, very minor possible improvements, where you have a system that is pushed to the edge. Normally, far better to buy more lower-speed RAM than less of the hi-zoot stuff. Without artificial benchmarks, the user would never see any difference.

should i look to get 512 MB card or stick with the 256Mb?

While 512Mb is almost essential if you're playing at extremely high resolutions, if your monitor doesn't support those top resolutions, 256Mb will do fine. I'd try to squeeze a few extra shekels out of the budget and opt for a card with a better core than the 7600GT you're considering. For not too much more money, you might look at a 7900GS, an x1800GT/GTO2, or even an x1900GT. The GPU core power is more important for high frame rates at low/medium/high resolutions than RAM, only at very high resolutions does RAM become a big factor. But manufacturers market their wares with numbers that "Joe Consumer" understands, and bigger RAM numbers must mean more performance, right? So you'll often see cards, like your 7600GT, offered with 512Mb of RAM - but that core will start to run out of steam before the extra RAM can prove to be beneficial. After all, it takes lots and lots of GPU horsepower to manipulate all those textures, when you're manipulating 1920 x 1280 (or more) worth of data. See an excellent comparo between the 7900GS and x1900XT 256Mb cards here: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2012501,00.asp

On another note: while your AM2 socket Athlon 64 is still a good choice (and was a great choice a few weeks ago), it really looks like the Conroe cores are the way to go right now, even in a fairly modestly priced machine. Here's a good article over at Anandtech outlining just such a budget system: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2830&p=1

P.S. TechReport has a good article on the new GeForce 7950GT, which they contrast with the Radeon 1900XT 256Mb and other cards. See here: http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q3...t/index.x?pg=1

[Leftenant Moley]

Well heres on from Komplett for 1080(getting a bit much now, still can afford)
the hard drive has been downed to 7200rpm, ram is 800Mhz(was only 7 notes more expensive than the 677 same make up 2X 1024) Just using the on board sound is that ok? Probably likes, im using integrated sound on this comp.

Corsair TWIN2X 6400 DDR2, 2048MB CL5
NEC DVD-recorder ND-3570 IDE Black OEM
Samsung 19" LCD Syncmaster 920N TCO-99
Logitech X-230 2.1, 2 Satellites and
Norman IC, 1 year license Virus Control
PC box
SoftThinks Installation/Recovery
Trust Slimline Keyboard, Black, UK,
Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB SATA2
Trust Ami Mouse 250S Optical
Gigabyte Poseidon GZ-XA1CA-STB Black
OCZ Technology Powersupply ATX 450W
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz Socket
Microsoft Windows XP Home SP2b
MSI P965 NEO-F, P965, Socket-775, ATX,
Point of View GeForce 7900GT 256MB,
Sony Floppy Drive, 3,5" 1,44MB Black,

one last Question. Will this run Medieval 2?

[DukeofSerbia]

@Leftenant Moley

I plan to sell my computer and build the new one. I just don’t know will I buy desktop replacement notebook or the new powerful classic desktop. If I buy the new desktop, I will make its from the next components:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (1.86 GHz)
Motherboard: ASUS P5B (I don’t have money for Deluxe version)
Memory: Corsair 2 GB (2*1 GB kit) DDR2 XMS2-5400-C4 TwinX (667 MHz)
Hard disk: Samsung SpinPoint P SP 2504C SATA II (or Western Digital 2500KS Caviar SE16 SATA II)
DVD-writer: NEC ND-4570A
Combo drive: LG Combo Drive IDE GCC-4522 OEM
Graphics card: HIS Radeon X1900GT IceQ 256MB GDDR3
Monitor: BenQ FP93G X (or Hanns-G HW 191DPB which is attainable in Serbia, too bad – it is nor pure gaming monitor like BenQ but it has widescreen model which is better for watching movies)
Case: Don’t know yet but it has to have good cooling (at least two fans).
Power Supply: Seasonic S12 500W Silent SLi ATX 2.0 (unfortunately this model is not attainable in Serbia, so my alternative then is OCZ Powerstream 520W ATX 2.0)
Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
Mouse: Included with keyboard (Microsoft IntelliMouse)

Why this configuration?

1. Core 2 Duo E6300 can be easily overclocked to 3 GHz with Intel retail air cooler. Core 2 Duo is the best processor (AMD X2 is wiped out). There is no need for the faster and more expansive Core 2 Duo processor.
2. ASUS P5B (especially Deluxe model) allows you insane overclocking capabilities with processor and memory.
3. Corsair XMS2-5400-C4 allows you great overclocking capabilities.
4. I will buy two optical drives: NEC for writing DVD’s and LG for everything else. Why? DVD-writers are weak readers (I know from my and my friend’s experiences) and if you use DVD-writer mainly for reading then laser will became faster useless.
5. Why only Radeon X1900GT and not XT version or GeForce 7900GT? This card has lower price than GeForce 7900GT and has the same or better performances. Radeons of X1K series can use both AA and HDR which nVidia’s cards can’t. And cooler on GeForce 7900GT is noisy and pretty annoying. Every game can be played in 1280*1024 with full settings (except Oblivion, but I don’t like that game anyway) which is native resolution of BenQ monitor.
6. Why HIS? Sapphire Radeon X1900GT has lower price than HIS model, but Sapphire model is hot (I mean extremely hot) because it use default cooling system. HIS use IceQ3 cooling (it seems that ATI copied that cooling system and put on Radeon X1950XTX) which is far away better and with it card can be overclocked as X1900GT come with faster memory than on actually work.
7. Why should I pay for Samsung SyncMaster 940BF (probably the best gaming monitor in market) when BenQ FP93G X perform the same for much less money?
8. Seasonic S12 series is one of the best power supplies in market (many PSUs in market are de facto Seasonic OEM).

And I almost forget: on this configuration Vista will be run easily (especially without Aero) plus Medieval II Total War.

I hope it helped.

[Geezer57]

Point of View GeForce 7900GT 256MB,

MSI P965 NEO-F, P965, Socket-775, ATX,

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz Socket

Leftenant, all your choices look acceptable and should make a very good system. If it were for me, I'd try (while staying within budget) to make a couple of small changes.
Like the Duke said, you can get better image quality if you opt for a Radeon x1900 series GPU. I disagree with him on the x1900GT (especially it's being faster than the 7900GT - in most game tests in that Tech Report review I linked in my last post, just the opposite was true). I'm waiting for the price to drop a little bit more to jump on an x1950GT, but if I couldn't find that extra money, I'd choose a quality x1900XT with a non-reference cooling solution (like the HIS Hightech H190XTQ512DVN Radeon X1900XT) instead.

If you want to stick with NVidia, you're better served picking a 7900GS (256Mb) at the lower price point, or a 7950GT (512Mb) if more funds are available. The 7900GS just about matches the 7900GT, for a good bit less money - the 7950GT definitely outperforms the 7900GT, for little or no extra cash.

Switching subjects now - let's look at motherboards. Your MSI choice has one dominating factor - low price. Other than that, it doesn't offer much else. It's not a particularly good overclocker, and will never support any form of dual-slot GPU capability (SLI or CrossFire). If you want to stick with budget boards, but want a good overclocer, I'd strongly recommend the GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3. It's got a better layout than the MSI, and reports are that it screams happily at very high frequencies.
In my next board purchase, I'm insisting on the ability to support SLI or CrossFire, even if I don't start out with two graphics cards. That way, I can start out with one GPU when new, then upgrade later to a 2nd GPU (after prices have dropped) for a mid-life refresh.
If you'd like that option also, and were going NVidia SLI at some time, you might consider the ASUS P5NSLI as a budget board - it's only a little higher in price than the MSI. It uses the nForce 570 SLI northbridge chip, which gives you SLI with two PCIe graphics cards in x8 mode. Not as great as x16 mode, but very little difference in the real world.
If you want CrossFire (as I do), the least expensive (after rebate) mobo with a decent reputation appears to be the Foxconn 975X7AA-8EKRS2H. Many features with good performance from a manufacturer not previously known for enthusist type boards, so the latest "tweaks" from the maker may not come quite as quickly. The best CrossFire gamer's option right now seems to be the ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP, but you'll pay a premium for it (if you can find one). All the mobo manufacturers are working on new products, so there'll be better choices in the near future.

If the budget can't be bent to include better graphics and a mobo with later dual-slot GPU capability, you might seriously consider downgrading from the E6600 processor to a E6400 or E6300. Giving up the extra cache for enough money to upgrade the graphics and mobo is a trade well worth doing, as game performance is much more often limited by the GPU rather than the CPU. And with overclocking, your cheaper processor might just end up outrunning the more expensive one.

one last Question. Will this run Medieval 2?

Well, your current machine will probably "run" Medieval 2, just maybe not quite like you'd want. So something like what's been proposed will definitely do it better.

EDIT: P.S. There's a review of the new ASUS ASUS P5W64 WS Professional motherboard over at Hexus (a very nice UK website) that's just gotten me drooling like an idiot - four PCIe graphics cards running simultaneously! And it overclocks like crazy! How about a nice 8-panel display setup, anyone? See here: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6635&page=1

[DukeofSerbia]

Which operating system for games? WinXP Home or pro (sp2)

Answered.

Why does AMD perform better than intel even although the clock frequencies are lower? how do i check if my AMD processor is sufficient for future games. Because on the boxes it just states Processor 2Ghz Required etc and AMD clock frequencies are way lower than Intel(It seems the AMD 64-Bit Dual Core X2 4200+ has a clock frequency of 2.2Ghz yet preforms better than Intel 3.4Ghz)

Prescott series of Pentium 4 is the worst processor ever made by Intel. That is why Athlons are faster and better than Prescotts. But the new Core 2 Duo changed everything.
About AMD Athlon64 X2 - they have enough power for the new games as they have two cores.

Does the hard drive of 10000rpm matter for playing games? or can i save notes by selecting the 7200rpm one?

If you have money then you buy WD Raptor 36 GB on 10,000rpm and on Rapror install Win XP Pro SP2 and other, larger hd on 7200rpm use for evrything else.
Those 10,000rpm models are only worth for video editing when you put them in RAID as video editing demand fast hdd system.

How much of a difference does the DDR800 ram make over the DDR667?

Not much. It is important for overclocking.

should i look to get 512 MB card or stick with the 256Mb?

Depend on which model.

[DukeofSerbia]

AMD(sempro, athlon, etc which is faster) or Intel(Pentium...not celeron cus its slower) ?

Intel Core 2 Duo is the fastest PC CPU without any doubt.

And what about the graphics card? Is Radeon X1600XT better than Geforce 7600GT? Will 256MB do I should I look at 512?

Radeon X1600XT is overpriced junk card. GeForce 7600GT beat its easily. That's why ATI almost revoked X1600XT.

Which operating system for games? Home or pro (sp2)

XP Pro with SP2 off course.

Also what do you think of this system I made on vantage computers (ever heard of them? Any good?) Anything here that’s overkill or underpowered? Apparently they will build for £840 which is nice cus im only wanting to spend £900( however I flexible)

Never heard.

[Leftenant Moley]

Thanks Duke, your comments on the XP pro is duly noted. I hear a lot of people claiming they use XP pro yet no one has recommended it over home yet.