Diplomacy a la MTW2

**Soulforged** · 10-08-2006, 19:22

I've read of the new system of MTW2 for the diplomacy and it looks entertaining. However I'm wondering if there's anyway to implement more information on diplomatic transactions and relations during the gameplay in RTW. Perhaps adding more visible information on the factions characteristics and relations with other faction on the Diplomacy GUI, so we can know what could be the best way to go. Some of this information is already present in other tables around the interface but it would be neat to have it present for better access. Even so, the best option to implent, would be the variety of responses to different propositions so we can know what was the real result of said proposition and make another more suitable in the future. Notice that I'm not talking about voice acting because that could be too much, but only a written form of response beyond the little group of answers that the engine has the custom to show.

Now Diplomacy could be hard coded from all perspective and I could have waisted my time. But I had to try.

So. Is it possible? In anyaway...

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 10-08-2006, 20:26

Pretty much hardcoded as to what we can show. But from what I've seen diplomacy for MTW2 is just RTW diplomacy with more of the information shown to you (stuff that is behind the scenes in RTW, but not visible to you). If they add more, great, but from what I saw it didn't look different in the way it operates.

**Pelopidas** · 10-09-2006, 08:12

...the diplomacy in RTW...my great pain.

A shame that all this is so hard-coded, in fact.

Does anyone here have seen the AI working an intelligent diplomatic scheme ?

Even with one last town besieged and no armies at all, this dumbass won't give up their freedom.
And, if by luck they accept, be certain that they will betray you in the year...

**CountArach** · 10-09-2006, 08:18

Originally Posted by Pelopidas

...the diplomacy in RTW...my great pain.

A shame that all this is so hard-coded, in fact.

Does anyone here have seen the AI working an intelligent diplomatic scheme ?

Even with one last town besieged and no armies at all, this dumbass won't give up their freedom.
And, if by luck they accept, be certain that they will betray you in the year...

Once... just once.

During an Epirote campaign i owned All of Italy, all of Greece and all of Illyria. Soon, the Getai attaked me (Stupid move). I counterattacked. Then the Sweboz attacked my Italian holdings (Stupid move). I counterattacked. THEN the most surprising thing happened... THEY ALLIED! OMG!

Anyway long story short the northern war lasted about 20 years and swung several times, but for every army I lost, I sent 2 to their graves. THEN the Makedonians got involved. They owned about half of Asia Minor. So I spent about 5 years on the back foot loosing Pella once or twice (Then Demetrias to Bribery... grrrr).

Then I needed some extra cash, so I sent two 15 unit armies over to Sicily and conquered the East of it. I succeeded brilliantly, but then the Carthaginians got involved. They had about 5 or 6 stacks around Lilibeo... Needless to say I was kicked off of the island and I lost Rhegiom before I managed to mobilise the local Samnites.

All-in-all a wonderful campaign that I plan on repeating in 0.8.

**Pelopidas** · 10-09-2006, 09:33

Yeah, souvenirs souvenirs...

But wasn't it much more a " Te Deum effect " than a true good move ?

Usually all the others factions allied themselves against you, at one moment or another.

Last week the Lagid and Seleucid decided to side together with the little dying kingdom of Pontos against my brave Koinon Hellenon phalanx...tsss...

**Cheexsta** · 10-09-2006, 14:34

Offer the AI a million denarii.

Sersiously, they'll accept almost anything...

And hell, you get your money back when paying them to become a protectorate. Win-win! For you, anyway...

**Soulforged** · 10-10-2006, 03:18

Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

Pretty much hardcoded as to what we can show. But from what I've seen diplomacy for MTW2 is just RTW diplomacy with more of the information shown to you (stuff that is behind the scenes in RTW, but not visible to you). If they add more, great, but from what I saw it didn't look different in the way it operates.

Yes that's what I've noticed too. That's why I was wondering if the information showed on the GUI could be modified, of course it should be dynamic and related to other factors on the game wich also are variable, but perhaps it could be done. Anyway thanks for you time Teleklos.

NOTE: However the information portrayed is only less accesible not invisible in RTW. They show the economic and military condition of the other faction wich can be seen in other tables in the interface, the relative power is the only invisible information made visible (only in some cases for what I could see) in the new system. The other informatiom made accesible is the relationship between the given faction you're dealing with and others, wich is visible but not accesible during Diplomacy in RTW. There's another factor called reputation wich for what has been gathered from the RTW engine does exists already but is also invisible and plays the most important role for the AI to determine the convenience of pacting with you. Even so the Diplomacy seems to be a mistery still in MTW2, considering that some important information is not revealed, like what decreases or incrases your power and your reputation, good or bad...judge for yourselves...

**Cheexsta** · 10-10-2006, 04:14

Having snooped through some M2TW files, diplomacy is looking quite interesting. Firstly, there are files in the data folder relating to them (hopefully signifying moddability!). And there are also a few new options, particularly a demand and offer for Recommunication. But other than that, it looks like it's pretty much the same as RTW. Let's just hope the AI is better at judging and honouring deals...

Edit: for anyone else interested in diplomacy stuff, open the .exe file with a hex editor. Do a text string search for "diplomacy" and you'll eventually stumble across some of the options available. Quite interesting stuff, actually.

**-Praetor-** · 10-10-2006, 06:06

Here`s the link to the article.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...ml?sid=6154343

Bye.

**Trithemius** · 10-10-2006, 07:32

Why they choose to use decriptions of relationships exlcusively is weird to me. Why not use some kind of symbol - like the influence scrolls/command stars/etc - rather than forcing everyone to learn a hierarchy of decription terms (is mixed better than modest, etc).

**MSB** · 10-10-2006, 07:36

And something else I just noticed while playing with the RTW diplomacy:

A diplomat came to me offering me a protectorate (while I had three very rich settlements left.) I agreed and in the same turn he attacked me!
A diplomat from the Romani came to me asking for a ceasefire. Nothing wrong with that, but on top of that he asked for:
- All the land I had taken from his people
- 28764 mnami (the cheeky little fool!)

I went to Epeiros and offered them an alliance, trade rights, map information and 10000 manami (as the KH had got them down to one province that was poor.) They said NO! Stupid people!
I went to the Getai and offered them my largest and best town (as a gift), but it was also my hardest to defend town. So they said NO and started jabbering on about how I have betrayed people in the past (this was turn 2)!