Report: North Korea Conducts Nuke Test

[Keba]

I actually meant prior to the Korean war. By that time, it was already a thriving democracy.

[lanky316]

With the occasional threats and being a part of "the axis of evil" NK are perfectily entitled to try and defend themselves. The key to being a nuclear power is that it does act as a deterent to possible warmongers and that just the threat should be enough to maintain peace. Everyone knows if you use them the repercussions on you will be VERY severe since I can't see any nation using nuclear weapons being received well.

Let's not get too far to a "we're allowed them but you're not" mentallity.

[Proletariat]

Unless a country's government is amenable to it's people, I'd rather them not have a sling shot for 'national defense'

[Major Robert Dump]

Hey, maybe I'll be seeing some of you on the Korean Peninsula. I'll bring some cookies.

[Redleg]

I actually meant prior to the Korean war. By that time, it was already a thriving democracy.

Study some history of both Korea's before making certain statements.

[Fragony]

Where do they get the money from, apparently they don't need the aid that south korea gives them. Hunger is a much more effective weapon of mass destruction, no need for military intervention. Starve some sense into them, eat nuke.

[caravel]

With the occasional threats and being a part of "the axis of evil" NK are perfectily entitled to try and defend themselves. The key to being a nuclear power is that it does act as a deterent to possible warmongers and that just the threat should be enough to maintain peace. Everyone knows if you use them the repercussions on you will be VERY severe since I can't see any nation using nuclear weapons being received well.

Let's not get too far to a "we're allowed them but you're not" mentallity.

This is precisely why countries such as NK, Iran and possibly even Iraq (if they had had the opportunity) want to obtain nuclear arms. Basically as a deterrent to any US led invasion. I'm no expert on this but I am sure that if the Ba'athists had posessed such weapons, up to the standard of i.e. India or Pakistan perhaps, before the invasion of Iraq, then the US would not have invaded. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a member of the Kim Jong-il fan club, and I can see why the US would be concerned about enemies/potential enemies gaining such weapons.

[nokhor]

now what?

now nothing. boths sides probably don't want to escalate. n. korea doesn't want to be nuke by the u.s so they won't attack and the u.s. won't attack n. korea because it's already involved in two regional wars and can't afford a third in terms of manpower or international reputation. the u.s. has coexisted with much stronger enemies having the bomb [ussr, china] and being a threat to the u.s. and its allies, it will coexist with the n. koreans. that is unless either side does something foolish.

the u.s. made a diplomatic threat and it wasn't credible. we threatened sanctions on a country where millions suffer and have died for the whims of the dictatorn and threatened to make them an international pariah when they already are one. we threatened military action when they know our hands our tied elsewhere, where chinese action is the big unknown, and where they knew there wasn't a huge public outcry for any type of military action against them domestically or internationally. the u.s. diplomatic threat was never credible and they called the bluff.

so we fold and move away. i'm sure we'll add more sanctions and there will be strong diplomatic protests by the rest of the world but nothing will change. except that the global perception of american power will change. and iran will almost certainly not give up its nuclear research now, and that every two bit, tin pot dictator and terrorist group will conclude that the n. koreans stood up to the u.s. and won and so why should they try it too.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Most in Europe see no point in sending troops there, for the simple reason that it doesn't concern them, it is far away, and NK will anyway be in a shouting (possibly shooting) match with the US and China. If the three destroy each other, then so much the better.

Yep, we're all Machiavellian robots down here in Europe. I'm sitting here right now salivating over the thought of a massive nuclear conflict. Hell, I might buy a high-def TV just so I can see those Korean cities get toasted in more detail.

If you seriously believe that the majority of Europeans don't care about what is going on, then you need to alter your perspective. If we don't get involved in any military intervention in the area (which there isn't going to be anyway, for the reasons outlined above), it won't be out of some crazy desire to see China, N. Korea and The US take each other out.

[Fragony]

Aren't you polish Keba? That a popular opinion there in the east? Just curious.

[Redleg]

With the occasional threats and being a part of "the axis of evil" NK are perfectily entitled to try and defend themselves. The key to being a nuclear power is that it does act as a deterent to possible warmongers and that just the threat should be enough to maintain peace. Everyone knows if you use them the repercussions on you will be VERY severe since I can't see any nation using nuclear weapons being received well.

Let's not get too far to a "we're allowed them but you're not" mentallity.

Care to guess what the stated goal of North Korea is regarding South Korea? Don't be so sure that North Korea's aim is only for defense or a deterent.

[Keba]

Yep, we're all Machiavellian robots down here in Europe. I'm sitting here right now salivating over the thought of a massive nuclear conflict. Hell, I might buy a high-def TV just so I can see those Korean cities get toasted in more detail.

If you seriously believe that the majority of Europeans don't care about what is going on, then you need to alter your perspective. If we don't get involved in any military intervention in the area (which there isn't going to be anyway, for the reasons outlined above), it won't be out of some crazy desire to see China, N. Korea and The US take each other out.

I merely speak from experience ... most people here just don't care. And those that do, well ... their stances are best left unsaid (I actually did say them, as in let them kill each other). It's far away and doesn't concern them.

As to the Machiavellian attitude, hey, that's politics for you. I personally fall into the first category. The NK development of nukes means nothing, and changes nothing. Time solves all problems, and NK will collapse eventually.

Study some history of both Korea's before making certain statements.

I was refering to South Korea, and IIRC, that country was formed in 1948, two years prior to the war, as a democratic republic, done under the supervision of the US, in accordance to the treaties signed with the Soviets, according to which the Soviets got the north part of the former state of Korea.

What exactly do you refer to? The excessive power in an elected official? Well, all states have this when faced with extreme circumstances. All other changes happened after the Korean War. He still was an elected official, though somewhat disputed. So what, my country had one like that as well.

EDIT: As a comment, I'm Croatian, that would be the area of former Yugoslavia, and the Balkans, rather than Eastern Europe. Local beliefs are explained above.

[Redleg]

I was refering to South Korea, and IIRC, that country was formed in 1948, two years prior to the war, as a democratic republic, done under the supervision of the US, in accordance to the treaties signed with the Soviets, according to which the Soviets got the north part of the former state of Korea.

That is the text book answer - now what about the history of Korea before that. You claimed that it was untouched by war before the 1950 conflict - care to look into the actual history of Korea?

What exactly do you refer to? The excessive power in an elected official? Well, all states have this when faced with extreme circumstances. All other changes happened after the Korean War. He still was an elected official, though somewhat disputed. So what, my country had one like that as well.

See above - when you discover what the Japanese did to Korea come back to the discussion.

Care to take a wild guess what the stated aims of North Korea is in relation to South Korea? Would you like to take a swinging wild ass guess to how much violence is done along the DMZ each year by infliration by North Korean special forces into South Korea each year. Then there is the 40 shots fired just this weekend at a North Korean party in the DMZ.

Then try to figure out how many tunnels are under the DMZ built by the North Koreans?

[lanky316]

I'm intrigued... All this is going on and you're perfectly aware of this, yet the South Koreans have got no idea and aren't even TRYING to prevent these things, sounds absurd to me. Surely the sourtherners aren't stupid enough to leave things undefended and not spend in these areas?

NK have been a wee bit subtle about this nuclear power thingy up until today. I'm yet to have heard a single word about it until this test! [/sarcasm] If SK haven't been spending some money researching anti-missile defences and preparing for this possibility then there are some very naive people at the top.

[KukriKhan]

Now what?

Up to Seoul, in my opinion. They're the most directly impacted by this development. No need for the US to take the lead - in fact, US leadership is probably counter-productive in this case. Let the most interested parties decide.

edit: Our only message to NK should be: "If some terrorist pops a nuke anywhere, we'll know who's door to come knocking on. You'll have 48 hours to prove it wasn't you."

[Don Corleone]

I think Kukri-sama raises a good point regarding the distribution to rogue terrorist organizations, but whether the DRK themselves launch a nuclear missile, or they hand one off to Hizbollah is immaterial. The core problem is lack of resolve at the global level.

Has it occurred to anyone, other than me, that PRC may have known long in advance of the 20 minutes they claim? That the 20 minute ruse was orchestrated sometime back when Kim Jong-Il received permission to proceed with the test (most likely within days of the failed missile tests).

Personally, I'm more interested in what's going on in Fujian province right now. This is the province on the mainland directly across the sea from the island of Taiwan. I don't know what actually is/has gone on there in the past few days, but when I get those answers, I think they'll be very telling whether Pyongyang is acting in concert with Beijing or if they really and truly are thumbing their nose at their patrons (a theory I have a hard time swallowing).

There's also scant information on Russian activities in Vladivostock and other Pacific strategic centers.

My point? Everyone keeps assuming that China and Russia are as surprised as anyone, based simply on their word. If they really were secretly working with DRK, does anybody think they would announce it to the world?

Why has the DRK been able to develop nuclear weapons? Because of a lack of resolve from the global community, particularly the Security Council. Who has talked tough, but balked at any real sanctions or any other real penalties that might slow the DRK's nuclear developments? China and Russia.

Personally, I believe we're being tested. The next step is a very small nuclear strike by DRK into a relatively uninhabited portion of ROK. It will be described as an accident.

Don't forget folks, as Redleg pointed out, the DRK doesn't believe in the existence of the ROK. They view the South as a rogue state and worse, a front for Western imperialists. They always have. They have always called for a unification of the Korean peninsula under a communist government centered in Pyongyang, by any means necessary. In 1994, when announcing their plans for nuclear armament, they declared their desire to turn Seoul into a sea of fire. That doesn't sound like protection from the US to me.

They hate the Japanese and would be perfectly happy to kill every last Japanese they could. They believe they enjoy the sponsorship and protection of the PRC and Russia.... maybe they really do.

One thing's for sure, we'll all know more in the next 4 days. Plans like this don't table for long...

[Keba]

Immaterial, any launch targeting South Korean soil will provoke full retaliation. There is no way of knowing where it will hit in the short time the people with shiny red buttons will have.

If NK does make the launch you talk about, then it is likely they will trigger a nuclear war, possibly a limited one, but again, possibly not. If it is limited, then you'll get the US West Coast, China, and possibly all of the Far East gone. If it isn't a limited one ... then we're screwed.

NK's stance on SK is much like Iran's stance on Israel. They may talk the talk, as you have a habit of saying, but they don't have the power, and they don't dare to make the move. Decadent western democracies still pack a punch, a big and painful one.

[Fragony]

They believe they enjoy the sponsorship and protection of the PRC and Russia.... maybe they really do.

More then a maybe, but think of it. China looks like a fool now, I doubt they like that position, being 'informed' at the last minute. China itselve is rapidly becomming a major power, buying foreign property (especially american) and that sort of thing, which means nothing more then that they will have to play it our way, a western collapse is just as bad for them as it is for us because of their foreign properties. Every chinese progress comes with new disadvantages globally, North Korea is more of a burden for them really, it's a real rogue state.

[Don Corleone]

More then a maybe, but think of it. China looks like a fool now, I doubt they like that position, being 'informed' at the last minute. China itselve is rapidly becomming a major power, buying foreign property (especially american) and that sort of thing, which means nothing more then that they will have to play it our way, a western collapse is just as bad for them as it is for us because of their foreign properties. Every chinese progress comes with new disadvantages globally, North Korea is more of a burden for them really, it's a real rogue state.

If Beijing itself views it's role and their goal as to limit the DRK's nuclear ambitions, yes, I agree they do look foolish and are probably enraged. But when has China ever shown restraint when they are truly angry about something? There are plenty of actions they could take to make it very clear to Pyongyang just how displeased they are. Until now, tough talk has been the extent of it. Announcing a halt on all foreign aid, a cessation of joint training and maneuvers, an arms embargo... China could have done any of these things in the past few years and has steadfastly refused to do so. This forces me to conclude that limiting DRK's nuclear ambitions is not really the goal of Beijing, and therefore, from where they sit, there is no egg on their face.

[Fragony]

There are plenty of actions they could take to make it very clear to Pyongyang just how displeased they are. Until now, tough talk has been the extent of it.

Used to be brothers in arms China is still a communist country (well not really of course), this is all a rather unfortunate position for our yellow dragon, you could compare it to a muslim nation giving the finger to the palestines. China isn't pleased at all, I am sure of that, they look like complete fools.

[KukriKhan]

A grim scenario our Honorable Don Corleone paints. But then, every new entrant to the nuke "club" pushes us all closer to the day when nuclear devastation reigns and rains.

All the more reason, imo, to keep our (US) rhetoric simple and direct. Forget the "this is unacceptable" equivocating. The days of treating NK like a spoiled child are over. They have adult tools now, and are determined to be taken seriously. We should do so.

Let the UN do the hand-wringing and bluster it's famous for. I'm sure it will all be laid at our doorstep as being our fault, anyway.

[Scurvy]

again the answer is either everyone has nukes, or no-one, if other countries see the US and others with them, they want to have them too! but thats never going to happen, so meh

[Redleg]

Immaterial, any launch targeting South Korean soil will provoke full retaliation. There is no way of knowing where it will hit in the short time the people with shiny red buttons will have.

If NK does make the launch you talk about, then it is likely they will trigger a nuclear war, possibly a limited one, but again, possibly not. If it is limited, then you'll get the US West Coast, China, and possibly all of the Far East gone. If it isn't a limited one ... then we're screwed.

NK's stance on SK is much like Iran's stance on Israel. They may talk the talk, as you have a habit of saying, but they don't have the power, and they don't dare to make the move. Decadent western democracies still pack a punch, a big and painful one.

North Korea's stance on South Korea is not like Iran's stance on Israel. North Korea does not want the destruction of South Korea it wants re-unification by force if necessary. There is active campaigns by both countries to re-unit under one nation.

[Redleg]

Now what?

Up to Seoul, in my opinion. They're the most directly impacted by this development. No need for the US to take the lead - in fact, US leadership is probably counter-productive in this case. Let the most interested parties decide.

edit: Our only message to NK should be: "If some terrorist pops a nuke anywhere, we'll know who's door to come knocking on. You'll have 48 hours to prove it wasn't you."

Well it seems the South Korean's are approaching it from multiple fronts

http://www.korea.net/News/News/NewsV...09047&part=102

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

President Roh warns Pyongyang that Seoul may jettison ’sunshine policy’
Date: October 10, 2006

President Roh Moo-hyun said Monday (Oct. 9) that the South Korean government will face increasing difficulties in pushing ahead with its engagement policy towards North Korea due to North Korea’s announcement of a nuclear bomb test earlier in the day.

The president said his government is losing its momentum for continued dialogue with North Korea in the face of hard-line international calls for sanctions and pressures against the communist state.

"Under these new circumstances, the government will increasingly find it difficult to stick to its engagement policy towards North Korea," Roh said in a news conference held at his office Cheong Wa Dae shortly after his summit talks with visiting Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

"South Korea may not ultimately abandon its engagement with North Korea, but objective circumstances are changing. We’ll not give up our desire for peaceful and dialogue-based settlements. Unlike in the past, we may not continue to be patient and yield to North Korea’s demands," the president said.

The president said the contents of the new "common and broad approach" towards North Korea, agreed upon during his summit with U.S. President George W. Bush last month, will inevitably be changed.

"North Korea’s (claim to have conducted a) nuclear weapon test is a grave threat to the peace and stability in Northeast Asia and on the Korean Peninsula. It also frustrated the expectations of the Korean people and the international society for a nuclear-free peninsula."

"The government will sternly and cool-headedly cope (with the situation) through close consultations with domestic political leaders and international society. The government will actively take measures to minimize the negative economic impact from North Korea’s possible nuclear-bomb test," the president said, urging the public to continue their regular lifestyles.

Roh said he will meet with domestic ruling and opposition party leaders and former South Korean presidents on Tuesday to discuss specific countermeasures against North Korea’s latest provocation.

Turning to his two-hour-long summit with Abe, Roh said he and the visiting Japanese prime minister agreed to work for future-oriented bilateral relations.

The president also said he will visit Japan at an appropriate time and continue to persuade Abe not to visit the controversial Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo, which honors Japan’s war criminals.

"My government will continue to persuade the Japanese leader through dialogue not to visit the Yasukuni Shrine. Prime Minister Abe may find it difficult to abruptly change his political position," Roh said.

"My understanding is that Prime Minister Abe will not visit Yasukuni Shrine. Any visit he makes there could again strain bilateral relations."

The president also noted that Japan’s nuclear armament does not appear imminent, despite North Korea’s claim to have successfully test-launched a nuclear bomb.

And other news

http://www.korea.net/News/News/NewsV...09028&part=102

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Seoul to back U.N. action on Pyongyang
Date: October 10, 2006

South Korea condemned North Korea's announcement of its first-ever nuclear test on Monday (Oct. 9), saying Seoul supports international efforts to discuss the issue immediately at the United Nations Security Council.

The presidential office of Cheong Wa Dae said that it would never tolerate a nuclear-armed North Korea, which trampled on the hopes of the international community to keep the Korean Peninsula free of nuclear weapons.

“It is an unacceptable provocation,” presidential spokesman Yoon Tai-young said in a statement after a National Security Council meeting. “We will cope with the situation sternly guided by firm principle.”

President Roh Moo-hyun had a summit with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe earlier in the day. Roh is also set to meet Chinese President Hu Jintao in Beijing on Friday.

Earlier in the morning, South Korean authorities, including intelligence officers and seismologists, said that an explosion had been detected in the northeastern part of North Korea, sending out a shockwave measuring 3.5 on the Richter scale at around 10:35 a.m. (KST).

Roh called an emergency meeting of the National Security Council with security-related Cabinet ministers and top intelligence officers after North Korea made an official statement that it had carried out its first-ever test of a nuclear weapon.

The South Korean military said it was maintaining a watertight defense posture along with the U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) and is considering raising its alert level to WATCHCON II (watch condition II).

The following is the full text of the statement by the South Korean government.

Statement of the Government of the Republic of Korea on the North Korean Nuclear Test

On October 9, the Korean Government detected signs suspected of a nuclear test in the Hamgyongbuk-do (province) region in North Korea, and the President presided over an emergency meeting of the security related ministers in the morning. While the meeting was going on, North Korea announced that it had successfully conducted a nuclear test, and the meeting was turned into a National Security Council meeting accordingly. The Government has decided to make public its official stance as follows.

1. Despite the repeated warnings from the ROK Government and the international community, North Korea announced that it conducted a nuclear test today. The Government will resolutely respond to the situation in accordance with the principle that it will not tolerate North Korea's possession of nuclear weapons.

2. This action taken by North Korea poses a grave threat that undermines stability and peace on the Korean Peninsula as well as in Northeast Asia. It is also an act of trampling on the hope of the international community to resolve the North Korean nuclear issue peacefully through dialogue in its quest for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

3. North Korea's conduct also constitutes a failure to meet its obligations under the September 19, 2005 Joint Statement, on which all parties of the Six-Party Talks concurred, and is in outright defiance of the UN Security Council Resolution 1695 adopted earlier on July 15. This is a provocative act that can never be condoned.

4. At the same time, through this act, North Korea has unilaterally breached and annulled the Joint Declaration of the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula that it signed with the Republic of Korea in 1991. We hereby make it clear once again that North Korea is solely responsible for any consequences arising from this situation, including the impact on inter-Korea relations.

5. We urge North Korea to immediately abandon any nuclear weapons and related programs, to return to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) system, and to faithfully comply with international norms as a responsible member of the international community.

6. Based on the ROK-U.S. alliance, our Armed Forces are fully prepared and equipped to thwart any provocation from North Korea. We warn the North to have a forthright recognition of this fact and refrain from making a misjudgment under any circumstances.

7. The Government is closely consulting with the international community concerning this matter and supports, in particular, the immediate discussion of this issue by the UN Security Council. At the same time, the Government will seek broad views on the situation from the leaders of the ruling and opposition parties as well as the opinion leaders. It will continue to coordinate countermeasures domestically and internationally and take actions in cool-headed and resolute manner.

South Korea is still dependent upon the United States for part of its defense. Seoul will be asking Washington for advice and support.


Edit: Be very careful on assuming that I think the United States should do anything immediately about North Korea having tested a nuclear weapon. As with anything on Korea - it has always been my belief that South Korea has to take the lead and the United States puts its full power in support of South Korea on any issue dealing with North Korea. But what I can not stand is the distortion of history as protrayed by some that Korea did not suffer from the effects of war. Both Korea's were brutalized by Japan for over 40 years, its men used as forced labor and slaves to the Japanese. Its women forced into slavery as sex slaves for the Japanese. The country side turned into a waste land as the Japanese stripped Korea of its natural resources. Then some forget that armed struggle that went on against the Japanese throughout the occupation of Korea by Japan.

[Pannonian]

If Beijing itself views it's role and their goal as to limit the DRK's nuclear ambitions, yes, I agree they do look foolish and are probably enraged. But when has China ever shown restraint when they are truly angry about something? There are plenty of actions they could take to make it very clear to Pyongyang just how displeased they are. Until now, tough talk has been the extent of it. Announcing a halt on all foreign aid, a cessation of joint training and maneuvers, an arms embargo... China could have done any of these things in the past few years and has steadfastly refused to do so. This forces me to conclude that limiting DRK's nuclear ambitions is not really the goal of Beijing, and therefore, from where they sit, there is no egg on their face.

The North Korean threat to China is the one the Chinese used to confront the west with - if the west/China do something that China/North Korea doesn't like, they'll open the borders and let the neighbours deal with the influx. Looking at Chinese preparations in Fujian to invade Taiwan is silly, since the consistent line taken by Beijing over the last decade is to avoid unrest at almost all costs, since it's bad for business. The only thing that can rile them is Taiwanese independence, since it will probably encourage non-Chinese regions like Tibet and Xinjiang to seek independence too. Barring that, the current standoff between Beijing and Taipei is acceptable to the PRC, who take the view that they can wait it out and sooner or later Taiwan will voluntarily return to the fold.

Let Seoul deal with this, but let them know that the west will back whatever they settle on, with all the resources at our disposal. Keep our noses out of it until they say we're wanted.

[Don Corleone]

I agree with those who say South Korea should take point on this. At the end of the day, they are the most directly affected. What I am trying to point out is the international community seems to be willing to limit South Korea's ability and will to act, in order to placate the PRC who is assumed to be a partner in limiting DRK nuclear ambitions. My point is that there is plenty of evidence that they are no such thing and we should not be telling Seoul to hold off based on what Beijing thinks any longer.

As for my statements regarding Fujian, call them foolish if you like. But if the PLA (People's Liberation Army, in many ways an autonomous body separate from the Central Committee) began new deployments there in the past few days, I would say it would discredit China's assertion that they themselves only learned 20 minutes before the test. It is entirely possible that the party officials in Beijing only learned 20 minutes before, but I cannot and do not believe that Kim Jong Il or anyone else with a say in the DRK would wipe their nose if they thought the PLA would take issue with it, let alone test a nuclear device. It is reasonable to theorize that if the PLA knew that the DRK was about to detonate a device, and that the test may lead to agressions and hostility, they would move to position themselves to start a 2nd front, to ease their Korean ally's pressure. Such troop movements earlier than 20 minutes prior to the test would indicate the top PLA brass did in fact know earlier in the cycle of events.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I don't know what everyone is getting wound up about.

There is no Liberal Elite in North Korea and there's no pernicious and treasonous media. I was under the impression that these were the Greatest Threat to Our Way of Life.

Just to pop in some interesting news, the French military atomic energy agency has noted that they calculate the blast to have been less than half a kiloton. If confirmed, this is so small that the test may well have been a failure - or even non-nuclear.

Before we all run around with the headless chickens screaming the end is nigh, it might be worth considering that NK is pulling a rather fast one. (I wonder if we can think of another dictator of recent times that allowed us to believe that he had what he did not....)



I dunno, I go away for a holiday and the world goes titsup. Can't I let you guys get on with anything without supervision?

[Major Robert Dump]

maybe they just demolished that massive derelict of a skyscraper they never finished, which so eloquently highlighted their failure as a communist military isolationist machine

[ChewieTobbacca]

The issue of China and Taiwan is one that many outsiders have interest in, but being a person with many family ties on both sides, I can tell you that the tension between the countries is FAR from what N.Korea/S.Korea deal with. More than 1 million of Taiwan's citizens now reside in China, doing business and what not. Increasingly, Taiwan's economic well being is tied with China. Fewer and fewer people in Taiwan are willing to fight China. Instead, in Taiwan (at least the Northern half, which consists of more educated people and thus with more ties with the Mainland), the status quo is preferred with "eventual" reunification. China sees it the same way - why attack Taiwan, when you want reunification. Why not let your political and economic clout basically lure them back in the fold?

There isn't a whole great deal of ill will between China and Taiwan, especially lately (and I was personally on both sides last month) and can tell you it isn't as big of a deal.

That being said, the N. Korea issue is a lot more tricky. I don't think China likes N. Korea having nukes, but having said that, China would prefer a N. Korea that is stable with nukes nearby than a de-stabilized N.Korea. And if any action is taken by the west or S.Korea or Japan on N. Korea, China would be more than willing to force N. Korea, in one way or another, to capitulate to Beijing's demands. The way China sees it is that a buffer zone between S. Korea and China is preferrable to a reunified Korea friendly to the west and/or Japan.

[Redleg]

More Breaking news

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15190745/?GT1=8618