the good ol' bright vs dull colour debate

[Cheetah]

Which one do you prefer?

Bright colours so that you can tell friend or foe easily apart (even if it is historically not correct), or realistic dull colours so that you can see the rust, dust and blood covering your brave soldiers even if it means that friend and enemy blends together in a fast and furious () melee.

Or perhaps none of the above, then please explain.

In fact I have an idea. Perhaps bright colours could be switched on and off (like grass, or shadows) so that both type of fans can be satisfied.

[{Don}_Sky{Mh}]

I prefer bright colours, be harder to see blood. Then again, I am British so I know about the whole Red-Coats idea, a bit. I saw it on Warhammer Dark Omen too, two handed swords that wore mostly red so the enemy couldn't tell how badly hurt they were :D, blood wise, but it would be kinda obvious if you were missing an arm or a leg, or somwhere across that line.

[GrandInquisitor]

Historical accuracy or not, I loved the Sassanid color scheme. But really, it doesn't matter to me, as long as the mechanics are good.

[Censor]

Historical accuracy or not, I loved the Sassanid color scheme. But really, it doesn't matter to me, as long as the mechanics are good.

Neon blue? Funny.

[shifty157]

I think CA struck a really good balance this time. THere are times when i find it difficult to tell whos troops are whos. When they start getting dirty and bloody they really start looking the same. At first i panicked and got frustrated but then i realized how cool it was because medieval combat was really like that. It makes you wonder how much friendly fire there was in the middle of battle without any uniforms to distinguish the sides.

Overall im very pleased this time around. THeres just enough color to recognize your men. A huge step from the neon pajamas of Rome in my opinion.

[Tamur]

Completely agreed with shifty on this one. It sometimes get confusing but that's absolutely fine with me. I far prefer getting confused occasionally and relying on the units cards to seeing everyone wearing saturated colours.

[Dooz]

Hell yes, what they've got going now is perfect, the demo is awesome. Especially when you turn off the silly green arrow markers, you've got yourself a game. They've even made a nice little subtle change which I love, namely the entire unit doesn't "glow" with the arrow markers off, only the big middle banner is highlighted and everything else is the same. Very nice. I'm having a hard time coping with the amount of time I have to wait between now and when the game comes out. They've really done something great here with M2.

[econ21]

I have not had a problem distinguishing my dull coloured units in realism RTW mods like RTR and EB. But in the MT2W demo, I switched off both banners and green circles, but found it almost impossible to tell which unit I've selected. Reading this thread, I guess the banners need to be on (I thought they might reduce performance) as unlike RTW, the unit you select is not highlighted.

[Tempiic]

On the other hand playing M2TW without banners turned on is like playing STW without their mons. Its just not right.

[Michrandir]

What makes you think dull colours are more realistic than bright ones? It's not unreasonable to think the knights in that era had their squires keep their armour and coats bright and shiny? The dyes they had available to them back then weren't less bright than they are now were they? As for the peasantry I'm sure they just didn't have the means or money to keep their equipment nice-looking, but any self respecting knight/general/king would keep their militia's colours nice and bright. Well I'm not sure of course :).

[The Marcher Lord]

Bright colour fan here, but with the pointless Bloom option turned off. I hate that weird soft glow that Bloom gives to the armour. Bloom effects might look pretty in Oblivion, but they just seem out of place in MTW2.

I agree with Michrandir that the heraldry and pageantry of the period would have added to the colours on the battlefield. Colour was a big thing in the medieval period, take a look a medieval wall paintings where they survive in churches, they were painted in very vivid colour. They knew how to handle pigments and dyes in very sophisticated ways so flags, pennants and clothing would all have been potentially very brightly coloured.

[Ciaran]

I like the colouring in RTW, though in BI it´s overdone. And I rather have a colour code to tell which units are mine.

[Dave1984]

What makes you think dull colours are more realistic than bright ones? It's not unreasonable to think the knights in that era had their squires keep their armour and coats bright and shiny? The dyes they had available to them back then weren't less bright than they are now were they? As for the peasantry I'm sure they just didn't have the means or money to keep their equipment nice-looking, but any self respecting knight/general/king would keep their militia's colours nice and bright. Well I'm not sure of course :).

The dyes back then would have been just as bright to begin with, but bearing in mind they were used to natural materials rather than man made substances such as nylon it meant that the colour was not "locked in" so well and so faded reasonably easily to the sort of duller shade you see in M2TW- still distinguishable as the colour it is, just not so bright.

And I'm sure any self respecting King with an army on the move would have been far more concerned with spending his money on logistics, keeping his men fed and their weapons and armour sharp and workable, rather than wasting it constantly dyeing surcoats!

Also if you mean bright to the extent of RTW, then no, I doubt very much anyone needed hi-visibility jackets in those days! Those things in RTW were practically glow in the dark!

[Azog 150]

All of the nobles, knights ect are brightly coloured to start, though not so obvious zoomed out. Its once they get fighting they start to get a bit more dull with all the blood or dirt which is really good. Its a mixture of both factors and i really like what theyve done here

Good job CA

[Orda Khan]

I think brightness applies more to each man per unit wearing exactly the same clothing and colour, which would show up as bright orange or purple etc. This was always ugly (introduced in MTW, in STW the colours were displayed on the sashi mono) but allowed easy recognition. For those who enjoy realism (and yes bright colours were not uncommon), recognition of units relying on the heraldry is very realistic. The idea sounds better to me but I've not seen the demo

.....Orda

[Comrade Alexeo]

I think brightness applies more to each man per unit wearing exactly the same clothing and colour, which would show up as bright orange or purple etc. This was always ugly (introduced in MTW, in STW the colours were displayed on the sashi mono) but allowed easy recognition. For those who enjoy realism (and yes bright colours were not uncommon), recognition of units relying on the heraldry is very realistic. The idea sounds better to me but I've not seen the demo

.....Orda

Orda is right; we tend to have this image of medieval and Greco-Roman society to have this dull, murky sort of atmosphere, when in reality they liked bright colors as much as, if not more than, we do.

In fact most redone RTW skins I've seen of legionaries and so forth are really too dark. Tunics were generally either white or bright red, not some deep burgundy color. While there is something to be said of the different materials used and ability to wash their clothes, a dirty bright red shirt still doesn't look dark - it just looks like a dirty bright red shirt. And of course the depiction of generals wearing leather armor a la RTW or wearing black armor a la Gladiator is just silly; they wanted to be shiny and impressive, not dull and boring darnit!


But back on-topic. Personally, I think M2TW's system is spot on; its not visually annoying like Parthia in RTW, but its generally not too difficult for me to figure out who is who in the midst of a melee, which is basically how it would have been anyway. The only problems I see arise from multiplayer if they allow players with the same faction to fight each other; since thats not in RTW, I doubt that's in M2TW though.

[andrewt]

Then again, I am British so I know about the whole Red-Coats idea, a bit.

Redcoats + brown pants?

[{Don}_Sky{Mh}]

I did say a bit, didn't I?

[{Don}_Sky{Mh}]

Oh, one other thing, which is off topic sorry. Just wondering, has anyone else seen or heard from any of the other {Dons}? I've been trying to get onto the website for ages but it just comes up with a 404 http error or something like that. If anyone knows, please, please, PM ME about it. Thanks!

Sky

[CaesarAugustus]

I voted for dull colours....................i shudder every time i think about those bright blue and purple colours of the parthians and sassanids. Not to mention the colour uniforms of the barbarians. In the medieval time period, very few armies actually had unifroms, so i think dull, somewhat randomized colours would be best in terms of realism.

[CountArach]

I voted dull, but then again I am a realism NAZI, so my vote counts for nothing...

[Monarch]

I think it'll be quite easy to tell, the enemy will be the guys that are red and my guys will be squeaky clean :D

[AlJabberwock]

I voted for "bright". Most armies might start out clean and neat, at least, but as they campaigned far from home, and were longer in the field, they became somewhat less - bright... On the other hand, while many had little or no "uniform" and might resort to tying bits of colored linen to their arms or on their hats to retain some sort of recognition of where the unit line was, its ALWAYS easy to tell who the enemy is at least.

They are the ones that are generally trying to kill you.

[Mithras]

I prefer the compromise: their colours are distinctive but the faction colours are pretty dull.

[hoom]

I think a big bit of the problem with the M2TW demo is actually a combo of the same brightness and faction colouring per unit and the new variation within units.
Ie the Billmen are hard to distinguish from the knights because there is no obvious profile.
If they had a slightly faded red/yellow (or some completely different colour combo) compared to the Kings bodyguard, you could only tell by the shade which is which (though in a really big melee, you'd still run into the same issue).

Personally I hope for resurrection of the glowing selected units (or at least the bouncing banners).

[Marius Dynamite]

The Demo has a good balance between colour coding a factions Soldiers and keeping it realistic. They have to colour code the units for the new people to TW games. (thinking of my young self when I bought RTW) Its good to be able to toggle brightness so easily, but mine will always be set to dull. The Green arrows are much better aswell I think. The arrows are much less obvious when I am actually playing and when I want an awesome screenshot of Zweihandlers charging the French Chivilry Knights, I just quickly hit Enter to deselect the unit.

[MSB]

Getting confused between your men and the enemy's men is historically accurate. There were many battles in history where nobody knew who was on their side. In that sort of battle people on the same side ended up fighting each other.

[CountArach]

Getting confused between your men and the enemy's men is historically accurate. There were many battles in history where nobody knew who was on their side. In that sort of battle people on the same side ended up fighting each other.

That is why I love playing without Banners or Green Arrows. SOmetimes I ave no idea if I am winnin, I just hope I am, and keep chargin my cavalry into where I think the enemy rear is.

[Roy1991]

I like it like it is in MTW2, something between bright and dull.

I have not had a problem distinguishing my dull coloured units in realism RTW mods like RTR and EB. But in the MT2W demo, I switched off both banners and green circles, but found it almost impossible to tell which unit I've selected. Reading this thread, I guess the banners need to be on (I thought they might reduce performance) as unlike RTW, the unit you select is not highlighted.

How can you switch off the banners?
I managed to remove the green circles, but I can't find a reference to the banners anywhere.

[econ21]

How can you switch off the banners?

Under [video] in the cfg file:

show_banners = 0

I did it to improve performance, but now I've switched to shader 1, I doubt I need to.