Please help me with my Rome Total War!!! Any help would be VERY appreciated~~

[Death Match]

Hello!! This is my first post!!

Set the time back to year 214BC, and there you have my House of Julii.

It has over 38 provinces and has funds at about 12000 denarii.

My 4 major cities (and only these 4 can recruit good units): Mediolanum [urban cohorts], Patavium [praetorian cavalry], Arretium [urban cohort], Ariminum [praetorian cavalry, archer auxilla, onagers]

Here are two problems, though, which I need help with.

1) I am thinking of going and taking all the enemy provinces back at the Italian peninsula. The problem is that Brutii has more than DOUBLE of my military ranking, and their units are not a joke. My navy is not what you would call "strong", but they are adequate enough for some purposes. [Navy total: 1 FULL navy (20 triemes, not biremes) 2 navies (3 triemes in each) {NOTE: I have not been outlawed yet}

2) My finance is going down for some reason. I am building as much financial buildings as possible, but it is still at -1000 per turn. (I have one full squad [of 9 urban cohorts, 4 praetorian cavalry, 4 archer auxilla, 2 onagers] and one squad [of 6 legionnairy cohort, 4 legionnairy cavalry]

Please help and give me some ideas about what to do!! I will update my situation every few days!! Any help would be APPRECIATED.

[CrossLOPER]

I have no experience with RTW, but it sounds like all you have are some typical TW in-game issues.

1. Being surrounded by strong enemies is never good. Being surrounded with few lands (and a crappy economy) is worse. You need to take some weaker land so that you have a foothold and gain an "attack absorbtion" factor, so that you will have a chance to respond in case of attack. How's your situation up north? You could also go ahead and attack the south, despite the odds. Some good commanding and one good victory could do it for you.

2. You said it yourself. You are building way too much and you have a large army that's draining all your resources. Use the army. You are probably keeping it to protect yourself from the south. Well, if there's no south, you don't really need an army, at least not for the moment.

Once again, these are just some basic thoughts to consider.

[Ciaran]

The Brutii tend to be strong, since they get to conquer all the rich Greek provinces, complete with many trade goods and short trade routes, while the Julii mostly get those landlocked, poorly equipped northern lands with huge distances for trade, it´s normal.
I´d say that navy of yours is a bit too strong, you´ll hardly need a full stack navy, for me, a maximum of five ships (quinquimeres, preferably, though trimeres will do) are more than adequate.
When you talk about financial buildings, I do hope that includes roads and ports, as trade buildings only won´t suffice, they need the means to get the trade goods about as well.
What are yor city garrisons like? Maybe you can find units better suited for garrison duty that what you´re currently using (I suggest peasants or town watch). For 38 provinces (which precisely? Thirty-eight provinces in Gaul, Germany and Hispania isn´t the same as thirty-eight provinces in Greece, Asia Minor, Middle East and Egypt - the latter selection is richer by far), two full-stack armies are a rather small military force, actually.
Then, what are the taxes? You don´t need every town to be happy, yellow is desireable, but a blue face will do, so stack up taxes a notch and reduce entertainment. Shuffle Ancilliaries and governors about, those with high influence and management shouldn´t lead the armies and those with high command and little less shouldn´t govern cities. Put the best where it´s most profitable (Patavium is rather rich, if I recall correctly, as is Massilia, you´ll want high-management guys there).

[ByzantineKnight]

The Brutii don't know how to use their units, they get huge stacks of Early Legionary Cohorts and Legionary Cohorts and still lose.

You just need a few Urbans to rout them, put Hastati and Principes (Cannon Fodder) in the middle of your line and Urbans and Praetorians on the flanks, as soon as they charge, bring your heavy flanks in and send your cavalry to hit them from behind, it routs them everytime unless they have velites, you should get rid of those first with your cavalry.

Good Luck

[Death Match]

When you talk about financial buildings, I do hope that includes roads and ports, as trade buildings only won´t suffice, they need the means to get the trade goods about as well.

Yes, it does include financial roads but not ports. Thank you very much about mentioning it and I will get to work straight away!

What are yor city garrisons like? Maybe you can find units better suited for garrison duty that what you´re currently using (I suggest peasants or town watch). For 38 provinces (which precisely? Thirty-eight provinces in Gaul, Germany and Hispania isn´t the same as thirty-eight provinces in Greece, Asia Minor, Middle East and Egypt - the latter selection is richer by far), two full-stack armies are a rather small military force, actually.

I totally agree with your suggestion. I have too many of good quality troops in remote areas, and that is probably why I am losing so much money. With my 38 provinces, these include all of Spain, Gaul, Britannia, Dacia, Scythia, and 3 of Egyptian cities. And with your idea that two full-stack armies are rather small force, how do you build heaps and maintain good finance?

Then, what are the taxes? You don´t need every town to be happy, yellow is desireable, but a blue face will do, so stack up taxes a notch and reduce entertainment. Shuffle Ancilliaries and governors about, those with high influence and management shouldn´t lead the armies and those with high command and little less shouldn´t govern cities. Put the best where it´s most profitable (Patavium is rather rich, if I recall correctly, as is Massilia, you´ll want high-management guys there).

My taxes are mostly set on "normal". With Patavium, I am losing roughly 2000 denarii per year. (it is filled with 10 squads of Town Watch). In my remote areas, unless I give them daily games and low tax, they won't stop revolting. (yes, I have exterminated the population when I conquered them. Thank Ciaran, for your excellent and helping comments.

The Brutii don't know how to use their units, they get huge stacks of Early Legionary Cohorts and Legionary Cohorts and still lose.

You just need a few Urbans to rout them, put Hastati and Principes (Cannon Fodder) in the middle of your line and Urbans and Praetorians on the flanks, as soon as they charge, bring your heavy flanks in and send your cavalry to hit them from behind, it routs them everytime unless they have velites, you should get rid of those first with your cavalry.

ByzantineKnight, you rule! You just opened a new world to me now. One problem is that they always come with at least 3 Urban Cohorts per army...

2. You said it yourself. You are building way too much and you have a large army that's draining all your resources. Use the army. You are probably keeping it to protect yourself from the south. Well, if there's no south, you don't really need an army, at least not for the moment.

CrossLOPER, I will think of this, as I think that I need to bring my good units from remote areas and fill it up with just Town Watch. I think it will save money.


Thank You for all of your comments!! Any more will be also greatly appreciated.

[ByzantineKnight]

ByzantineKnight, you rule! You just opened a new world to me now. One problem is that they always come with at least 3 Urban Cohorts per army...

Cool, i've never seen that. Mabye I should go back to Vanilia .

Are you winning?

[Death Match]

Cool, i've never seen that. Mabye I should go back to Vanilia .

Are you winning?

Good point. This is why I cannot even think about being outlawed.

[Ciaran]

Once you´ve upgraded your ports you´ll realize quite a boost in trade income. Total War game economy seems to be very reliant on sea trade, though in MTW that was way more extreme than it is in RTW.

My taxes are mostly set on "normal". With Patavium, I am losing roughly 2000 denarii per year.

You´re not losing money with the city. The city in your Roman heartland are probably the biggest ones, population-wise. Well, Army upkeep and character salaries are split up between all cities and the bigger cities have to pay a greater share - that´s why it looks like you´re losing money from them. The figure shown on the campaign map is misleading, which you can easily see when you go to the city detail screen, in the "expenses" section your heartland cities will have masses of scrolls and figureheads - symbols for army and character upkeep. But you´ll also notive they have huge tax and trade income.

I totally agree with your suggestion. I have too many of good quality troops in remote areas, and that is probably why I am losing so much money. With my 38 provinces, these include all of Spain, Gaul, Britannia, Dacia, Scythia, and 3 of Egyptian cities. And with your idea that two full-stack armies are rather small force, how do you build heaps and maintain good finance?

As I said, secure your backyard with backyard troops (peasants, they give you the numbers for a steal price) and take your fighting men to the front. Or keep one or two legions in the back, to deal with the pesky rebels. Towards the end I tend to have about half a dozen full stacks capable of levelling all that comes into their path, no sweat.
To prevent unrest in your conquered territories, did you pull down the heathen temples and convert them to good Roman ones (the Julii Jupiter temple line is perfectly suited for keeping order)? Also think about levelling (military buildings especially, unless you want the province for troop production) or upgrading existing buildings (roads, trade, ports and whatever else you want to keep) - buildings give culture penalties which in turn cause unrest. I advise against pulling down the culture-specific happiness/order buildings, their positive effects might override their culture penalty, but don´t forget to set up arenas to introduce some Roman entertainment as well.

[CaesarAugustus]

Another way to keep down unrest is to mass produce soldiers from a rebellious city (preferably peasents), which will help decrease the population. Then put them into a city where you need the extra population and disband them, and they will no longer be rebellious (I think i got this from one of the rtw guides on this forum, they are great if youre looking for useful tips. )

And for future reference if u start a julii camapign again, as the julii i usually maintain two large armies as i start off the game. One i use to invade gaul/spain to keep the senate happy, and the other i will send to conquer the rich greek cities and the rest of sicily. This cuts off brutii and scipii expansion for some time, and gives you rich mediterranean provinces to generate income.

It is important to cut off territories that your roman allies are going for, as this will make them easy to conquer when you are outlawed by the senate. In the last julii campaign i played when i finally was outlawed the Brutii only owned their two starting provinces+crete, and the scipii hadnt expanded at all

What im trying 2 say i guess is that you need to take any remaining rich provinces befor the brutii can get their hands on them, at the expense of your northern ones falling to rebellion if need be, otherwise you will be facing a superpower that doesnt look pretty when its flooding u with urban cohorts an ur still using principes (my first RTW experience against the brutii, not fun )

[Death Match]

I think that I will follow all of your advices. The best thing I can do is start from scratch I think.. What would you recommend me to start with: Julii, Brutii, or Scipii?

[ByzantineKnight]

The Brutii, they get to attack Greece, one of the biggest earning places on the map.

[Braden]

It seems a shame to abandon your current campaign, but if you want either of the other Romano factions are fun for different reasons.

Scipii – you have quite a tough start until you’ve defeated Carthage but then you get a decent powerbase and advanced settlements.

Brutii – easier to start with, in my opinion, than the Julii due to the rich early provinces you can take.

….or you could consider a completely different faction like the Greeks?

Something you should consider once your “Empire” gets past the 25-30 province mark. A complete re-organisation of your military.

I always take a major pause and a good long look at the campaign map. How many “armies” do I have? What are they comprised of? Do I really need that many troops in the field?

Pre-Marius troops are used as Garrisons or just disbanded and replaced with Town Watch.

Basically I aim to get 3 – 4 “Legions”, comprising of the best and/or most experienced troops I have.

By a Legion I mean:

1 x full stack PLUS potentially TWO part stacks of re-enforcements.

Each “Legion” is only for combat regions. A full stack comprises of:

3-4 archers
3 cavalry (excluding general)
And perhaps 8 heavy infantry units.

This is capable of facing off against just about anything the AI can throw at you and is well balanced.

The accompanying two part stacks are for re-enforcement and you should keep them nearby (but behind) the main force. I usually have one part stack of mainly siege equipment with a few units of heavy infantry (the best I can get) – this is used exclusively for taking settlements with walls.

The other part-stack is purely additional units for the main formation: More infantry, more cavalry in the main (I find the attrition rate on archers is low if you use them well).

So, basically, I end up with an Empire of perhaps 30+ regions but only FOUR "Legions" of fighting men. All other expense is used on the MINIMUM of numbers needed for garrison duty.

Like you, I tend to end up with Taxes on Normal as I find the income too high.

[Death Match]

It seems like that you people have reshaped the way I see towards Rome: Total War. Can I ask, how come some enemy armies are able to have 22 units when I can only have a maximum of 20?. (especially with Carthage and SPQR)

[Braden]

?? - AFAIK the max is 20, I can't recall seeing a 22 unit stack in Vanilla....though it is a very long time since I played vanilla.

Do you have a screen shot of a 22 unit stack?

[ByzantineKnight]

I thought it was 22 before as well.

When you look at a rival/ally city, the row of unit cards is only 9 big, so there has to be a third row with 2 cards in it if it is a full stack. On the map your cities and army details have rows of 10.

(sorry I can't have screenshots, RTW is messing up)

[Death Match]

Thank you, but I once I had a navy of 22 fleets, BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!! (RTW kept crashing until I finally separated the fleets.

[ByzantineKnight]

Cool!

[professorspatula]

I find the Brutii love to churn out Praetorians and Onagers. Oh and Urban Cohorts as you discovered (in my campaigns I don't allow training of these uber units). Although their military might can look daunting at first, once you beat a few stacks, they're often slow to replenish those units because they take 2 turns to train (heavy onagers do anyway). A few legionary units backed up with plenty of cavalry and one or two of your own onagers is often enough to send a superior Brutii force running. Also, always be on the offensive - the AI is more willing to sit back when defending, so you have time to maneouvre cavalry to attack their flanks and artillery before you move your infantry line forward. When on the offense, the AI usually comes at you right at the start, so any attempt to pick off a few units before your infantry lines clash is much harder to achieve.

As others have said, you really only need a few proper armies to fight. Most of your non-frontier settlements can be guarded by town watch units with a cavalry and archer unit and maybe an auxiliary infantry unit in every other one. I like to use forts on the roads between settlements where I can move other units to dangerous areas. Have your frontier settlements churn out legionaries, cavalry etc and place any excess units that won't fit in the city in a nearby fort. With careful placement of forts, you can slow down the enemy advance or provide a safe passage to transport small groups of units to where they are most needed.

It might also be worthwhile moving your capital city elsewhere. You can sometimes gain several thousand extra denarii per turn just by having the capital in the ideal location. You have to mess around with taxes etc to control unrest whilst finding the right spot, but it can be worth it. Making sure governors with high management skills and trade/tax bonuses are in the cities where the most profit is to be made is important also. A good governor can earn an extra 2000+ denarii per turn in the same settlement.

If the Brutii hold all of Greece, then they do have a good advantage over you, which is why I like the Julii campaign - their initial opponents are easier, but their wealth is limited (unless you sneakily take Brutii/Scipii targets first!) which makes things tougher. Before attacking my fellow Romans when I was Julii, I made sure I had a large enough army to take the first large Roman rival settlement, and another force able to hold the Brutii/Scipii back. Once you conquer and exterminate the populace of the first city, you can retrain units and churn out more with the extra cash and from there on begins the long hard battle of Roman supremacy.


Regarding navies: I find it's best just to have 3-4 fleets of around 4-6 ships. Retrain heavily damaged crews to make sure they retain their experience and send them out to fight again. Large fleets are unnecessary for the most part, as are lots of small fleets. A few well trained fleets will save you a lot of money. You just need the fleets to blockade the occasional port or to sink a few ships that may prevent sea based transport of your troops.

[Death Match]

Actually, I am feeling a dillemma at the moment. I have two saved files.... And here are their descriptions...

1) Attacked Rome, control the whole Italian Peninsula. Brutii heavily focussing on Segestica destroyed utterly. Brutti took 5 of my cities and making armies out of there to expand more. Their militiary ranking has come down a very steep hill while mine went down slight. Now our ratio is 1.3:1, not 2:1. Scipii apparantly not making an action. Stable economy of 4500 denarii profit a turn. (if nothing is spent)

2) Have not attacked Rome. Unstable economy of -2000 denarii per turn. Brutii WAY STRONGER THAN BEFORE. Ratio closer to 2.4:1 than 2:1. Okay army of 2 full stacks of Urban and Praetorian. Have the option of barging into Rome anytime

[GeneralHankerchief]

1) If the Brutii still have Greece, blockade every single port there. It absolutely wrecks their economy. In addition, go for their moneymaking settlements. Athens and Crete especially.

2) You good at defensive fighting? Take Rome, and if you don't have any qualms, exterminate the place for the money. Keep building up your forces, and once you have a powerful army head for Athens. Once that's taken, prepare for tons of siege defenses. Not much you can really do but wear them out.

[Death Match]

Thanks for all your help... I think I am doing Okay with continuing on my Julii campaign.

[The Stranger]

maybe check my guide for more help. On the bottom of my guide you can also find links to other guides. Oh and if you like it... post something in it.

[Motep]

give the financial issue some time...my old greek game has 600 thousand and it started going up around 190. but you have to build up your markets and your trade fleets, thats key. Farming helps a little to, but mining is a waste.
As said, use your army and take up medditeranean territories. Fleets arent too crucial...but keep those you have strong and make sure thay can withstand untill it gets to its intended destination. Also, sell map info...the richer factions might pay 10,000 plus and you can usually mooch at least 2000 out of the poorer ones.But this makes your allies not like you so much, but who needs em? Try to get as many trading buddies and allies as you can, and the other romans are valuable so far as trade untill they turn on you(or you on them). Besides, they couldnt use their armies to swat a fly. Also, keep your waters clear of enemy ships, and use assasins as much as possible.
Tell me this: where are you expanding?

[Death Match]

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!
--------------

I have made a successful improvement since I last visited. (Sorry for late posting, I was too busy downloading Rome: Total Realism Platinum Edition, which I am going to use on another computer)


Here are the good facts:

Brutii and I have about the same Military Ranking (mine went up slightly, theirs down really a lot.

I have five full stacks of army lurking in Brutii territory.

Brutii was not able to take away any of my cities during the time!!!

I have brought one full stack and gained Creton (I think that's how to spell), and Athenes. Getting Sparta is a piece of cake as it has only 3 squads of "crap" units.

I earn about 5000 denarii every turn!!!

I have 38 cities (+5 since last time)

by the way, I am using the 1 saved file

1) Attacked Rome, control the whole Italian Peninsula. Brutii heavily focussing on Segestica destroyed utterly. Brutti took 5 of my cities and making armies out of there to expand more. Their militiary ranking has come down a very steep hill while mine went down slight. Now our ratio is 1.3:1, not 2:1. Scipii apparantly not making an action. Stable economy of 4500 denarii profit a turn. (if nothing is spent)

Pretty good, yeah? Sparta should give me more revenue when it is conquered, and those three cities offer good units, such as urban and praetorian cavalry.

I am now using onagers as an important part. I put them on fire mode, then throw heaps of the stones. I usually kill about 50~150 with them. This way, I achieved 4 Heroic Victories in a row.

Please add comments!!

[Motep]

nice...and sparta IS an economic paradise. With several trade fleets and land trade, it alon could make up to 10,000 profit(but usually it will be around 4,000 to 6,000)
You show those brutii whose boss!!

[Death Match]

I think that a picture is better than one thousand words.

Here is my saved file... It's a .ZIP file.


Download it here