Rioting oddity

**Watchman** · 10-18-2006, 01:31

Apparently I recently ran into a little loophole in the governement/MIC system. I captured an enemy city I wasn't planning to keep and duly massacred the populace and dismantled everything I could for quick cash. Then I cranked the tax to max and the army continued elsewhere - no garrison, happiness 0%, oughta revolt soon right ?

Something like twenty turns later I'm still kind of wondering when that completely empty city is going to stop just rioting and will start actually rebelling - to the former owner or Eleutheroi - out of my control.

I figure the prolem is that with neither MIC nor a governement building in the city it cannot "spawn" any military units at all that could take over the place and thus remains under my control, happiness solidly stuck at zero and the riot message popping up about every other turn.

I'm thinking I should build the minimum-level MIC and the cheap-ass Type 4 governement so the place can revolt properly; right now it feels like an exploit (since I still get the tax money), and I can't even pawn the place off to any other faction.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 10-18-2006, 02:24

Is the town in the sahara? There are many in the sahara that do this. I have been told that it has to do with the fact that the rebels can't recruit units in the territory (though I edited the buildings file so that they could recruit units here and it still didn't rebel).

**Watchman** · 10-18-2006, 11:40

Nah. It's one of those on the Aegean east coast - Mytilene if I recall the name correctly, that one on the isle of Lesbos. (Should it matter I'm playing with the Getai and the town's previous owners were the Macs, who gobbled up the KH a while ago.)

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 10-19-2006, 07:42

I think the problem is tied to either the founding faction (the town doesn't know who to revert to), or the town can't train any units to garrison the newly rebel town. Probably the later. Either way I don't think it matters who you are or who you took if from. I believe that this same problem is tied to a CTD when a AI faction that holds one of these towns loses all its family members. (I failed to test this theory fully.)

**Watchman** · 10-19-2006, 09:25

...or the town can't train any units to garrison the newly rebel town.

That's what I'm suspecting too - inability to generate troops to "capture" the settlement from the inside, as it were. I'll have to see if building a governement and MIC has an effect.

**NeoSpartan** · 10-19-2006, 22:08

nah its neither fellas. I have that happen to me in ALL my 3 campains (aedui, KH, and Makedonia).

With KH I have taken 4 towns destroyed everthing and LEFT (no garrison no governor) and the towns have not rebelled. BUT if I seed a small garrison there, there is a BIG chance the it will rebel back and it WILL have units.

I have destoyed every building and exterminated the population 3X of one of the towns in the Mid East (now the pop is 400+) AND it rebelled with Heratoi(sp) and Hypastasies.

There is a MAJOR issue with city happines that needs to be fixed.

**Cheexsta** · 10-20-2006, 01:54

There is an issue in RTW 1.2 (not sure if it's still in 1.5) where rebels won't spawn when the faction OWNING a settlement has no units recruitable in that settlement. The reason for this is that when a city revolts, it uses units that were recruitable by the owning faction.

An easy to implement workaround that I found a while back is to open up export_descr_buildings.txt and under the 'capabilities' section for EACH 'core_building' (ie Governor's Villa and so on) type the following:

Code:

recruit "rebel pantodapoi" 0

This will mean in the game, the building description would display 'Pantodapoi' but it won't appear in the recruitment window since only the 'slave' faction has ownership of it in export_descr_unit.txt. But when that settlement revolts, no matter who it revolts to they will get these Pantodapoi.

You could take it one step further and restrict the unit recruitment to specific areas (ie in the east the Pantodapoi will appear, while in Gaul some basic rebel-only Gallic units will appear), but that would require too much fiddling with hidden resources.

See if that solves your problem. If not, then there's something else that must be happening.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 10-20-2006, 11:06

So it has to be the owning faction? So that is why when I put "and factions { slave, }" (or what-not) to the end it didn't work. Then the good news is that this shouldn't accure in 0.8.0 then, as the AoR is fixed.

EDIT: I am so tired that upon rereading that I didn't even know what I was trying to say.

**Cheexsta** · 10-20-2006, 14:29

You don't need any 'and' conditionals for this fix. The Pantodapoi will appear in the building's recruitment/capabilities list, but they won't be in the actual recruitment browser. The only time they will appear will be during revolts and when the Eleutheroi own the settlement.

In other words, just type what I have in the code tags above and you should be fine.

**abou** · 10-20-2006, 17:42

I see how that wouldn't be a problem in vanilla because the government buildings allow you to recruit peasants (Praetorians if it is Roman). Since those cannot be destroyed, it isn't an issue. Your fix is quite a simple solution, Cheexsta.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 10-22-2006, 17:03

We're trying to make sure this doesn't happen with any provinces in the next build, but if some slip by and we are notified of it we will certainly place something there.

**Watchman** · 11-14-2006, 08:57

Cheexsta's solution has the minor issue that it results in Eleutheroi settlements tending to spawn full of Pantodapoi, though. Which makes many of them a bit of a cakewalk to take over, seeing as how the Pants are about as close as EB gets to the vanilla Peasants...

Not that the AI didn't have a soft spot for crappy militia units anyway, but I'm pretty convinced just about anything - including low-level javelineers, archers and slingers - can actually put up more of a fight than the poor Panties.

**Cheexsta** · 11-15-2006, 01:40

Originally Posted by Watchman

Cheexsta's solution has the minor issue that it results in Eleutheroi settlements tending to spawn full of Pantodapoi, though. Which makes many of them a bit of a cakewalk to take over, seeing as how the Pants are about as close as EB gets to the vanilla Peasants...

Simple solution: raise the cost to recruit 'rebel pantodapoi' in export_descr_unit.txt to about 1000000 denarii and you'll be fine

Just keep the upkeep costs at 0 so the eleutheroi don't lose all their money after a civil revolt.

And when a settlement revolts to another faction (typically Parthia in Arabia), that faction also gets the rebel pantodapoi added to the garrison, even though their faction is not listed in the unit's ownership. That's the other main problem with this little fix...

**Watchman** · 11-15-2006, 21:32

So, basically, the engine will be able to spawn a freebie Panty or two to "capture" the rioting settlement, but won't even touch them otherwise as they're totally overpriced for services rendered* ?

Now that's sneaky.

I like it.

*speed bump and lawn ornament, and cleaning the stables

**Tellos Athenaios** · 11-15-2006, 21:46

What about replacing the Pantodapoi unit with a general, or, preferably, a Family Member? Or trying an agent instead?

**Watchman** · 11-16-2006, 11:43

And wonder at Gallic FamiCav in India or the placeholder Pontic equivalent in Sahara ? No thank you, and I for one am not going to even try working out the hidden resource set thingies to "regionalize" the spawned units.