The Godfather, Part 2 [Concluded]

[Myrddraal]

Vote:Myrddraal for poor logic that sounds reasonable, the worst enemy of the town.

Well I'm sorry, I'll stop trying

Unvote:Don C
Vote:Abstain

Give me something better to go by, and I'll bow to you, until then I'll leave you with this: I've never heard of a worse reason to vote for someone than for trying.



EDIT: Anyway, what's wrong with my logic? I've tried to consider everything, what have I missed? Point out something wrong with my logic, rather than simply say "that's poor logic". I'm a little hurt, and also very suspicious. You post a one liner insulting my attempts, then vote for me. That is highly highly suspicious. Until you tell me what on earth you're trying to do:

Unvote:Abstain
Vote:Sasaki

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm sorry no offense meant, but your post looked exactly like the things I used to post when I was in the mafia in Godfather part 1. There's some substance there, it makes some sense, and other people will pick up and vote based on it. It was looking a whole lot like Don was going to be lynched with no discussion this round.

[Myrddraal]

It was looking a whole lot like Don was going to be lynched with no discussion this round.

And this would have been a good thing?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And this would have been a good thing?

No! Bad. That's why I voted you to derail the bandwagon. Don C was a popular vote choice last couple rounds, the mafia will naturally try and lynch him this round. I foresaw a bunch of "I agree with Myrddraal vote don" posts.

[Myrddraal]

No! Bad. That's why I voted you to derail the bandwagon. Don C was a popular vote choice last couple rounds, the mafia will naturally try and lynch him this round. I foresaw a bunch of "I agree with Myrddraal vote don" posts.

Ok I see what you're getting at. However, I know you may think I'm laying my head on the chopping block here, I'm still leaning towards Don C (as soon as you unvote me that is... )

He is highest on my suspicious list, and you're above average yourself I'm afraid. Come to think of it, Don Corleone's best defence in this game has been that nobody has stepped up to defend him. This is something I didn't consider at all, and it is quite a redeeming fact.

So I won't vote Don C this round, his suspiciousness has fallen for me, and actually so has yours Sasaki. That little bit of discussion was refreshing, and more of the same is our best hope.

Edit:

Unvote:Sasaki
Vote:Abstain
for now... I must consider things...

Edit2:
PS, it's also refreshing to talk to someone who consitently spells my pseudonym correctly

[Xiahou]

Vote: Don C

He's been acting like mafia all game long.... I mean really.

No! Bad. That's why I voted you to derail the bandwagon. Don C was a popular vote choice last couple rounds, the mafia will naturally try and lynch him this round. I foresaw a bunch of "I agree with Myrddraal vote don" posts.

Sometimes people are suspicious because they are mafia.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

im dead! well my fault for not coming on for two days which is also why i missed almost being killed, what happened there?

[Don Corleone]

Okay, not that I don't appreciate Sasaki's pro bono defense work, but let me ask you all this. The mafia wants the clearly innocent dead first. They want to keep very suspicious characters that they know aren't one of theirs alive. Hmm...


Unvote: Dutch Guy
Vote: Sasaki

Sorry, Sasaki, but I've learned there's no such thing as good fortune or goodwill in this game.

[Myrddraal]

Okay, not that I don't appreciate Sasaki's pro bono defense work, but let me ask you all this. The mafia wants the clearly innocent dead first. They want to keep very suspicious characters that they know aren't one of theirs alive. Hmm...

Good point... Arghgshflmmmmm now I'm confused.

[Don Corleone]

Vote: Don C

He's been acting like mafia all game long.... I mean really.

Sometimes people are suspicious because they are mafia.

Believe it or not, mi amigo, its your accusation and Husar's that have me convinced that the 2 of you are innocent. But if the detective is out there, don't blow your cover by investegating and exonerating me. Investegate Sasaki.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Vote: Sasaki

He thinks we can rule out the second round voters, I know I'm innocent and he could well have been chosen by the Godfather for being so able at controlling a game. And I don't suspect Cowhead as much.

CR

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sasaki, that's twice now that your first votes in one round have been insulting little one-liners that really say nothing. After you're called on it, you hastily bring forth the logic.

My question is: Why not use the full logic in the first posts? Unless of course, there's ulterior motive.

Vote: Abstain

It's not enough to warrant a vote. But I do have my eye on you.

[Csargo]

Vote:Myrddraal for poor logic that sounds reasonable, the worst enemy of the town.

Unvote: Don C
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

My gosh man I can't let you get away now. Man I can't believe this.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Interesting, interesting. I see some people haven't yet grasped the principles of getting discussion going. (hint:being slightly insulting and accusatory works wonders)

Unvote:Myrddraal
Vote:Sigurd

I wasn't too suspicious of your argument against Kommodus round 1. But I am very surprised that no one has voted you yet this round. I believe if you were innocent there would have been some attempt by the mafia to get you lynched, you even said yourself "lynch me next round if I'm wrong".

2nd thing was Crazed Rabbits lengthy post. Drisos is proved innocent he says, so those who argued against him could be guilty. He completely fails to mention that Kommodus has been proved innocent as well, by his own logic Sigurd is far more likely to be mafia than anyone from round one. This strikes me as an attempt to take suspicion away from Sigurd.


@DC: the mafia likes suspicious people because they make easy lynches. Not lynching the suspicious people would defeat the point. And yes, there is pro bono in this game, any good townie will defend someone they think is innocent.

@GH: I like to see what they have too say for themselves first. Two posts for the price of one as it were.

@Crazed: As I said, why not Sigurd?

@Csar: you always vote for me no surprises there

Oh and before anyone says "well now you are trying to get sigurd lynched", 2 things: first I said they would have tried before now, and 2nd I'm not trying to get anyone lynched just trying to make discussion.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Good point about Sigurd. I'll vote for him next round though.

CR

[Xiahou]

the mafia likes suspicious people because they make easy lynches. Not lynching the suspicious people would defeat the point. And yes, there is pro bono in this game, any good townie will defend someone they think is innocent.

That's foolish- if you're stated policy is to not vote for suspicious people then the mafia has free reign and can even act overtly suspicious because you'll defend them for it.

I'm not yet changing my vote- but I am beginning to suspect we're being deliberately misled by you.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That's foolish- if you're stated policy is to not vote for suspicious people then the mafia has free reign and can even act overtly suspicious because you'll defend them for it.

I'm not yet changing my vote- but I am beginning to suspect we're being deliberately misled by you.

I don't think he's acting suspicious, but it's obvious others percieve him as such.

Edit: btw Myrdraal, I meant the "poor logic that sounds reasonabl" is the worst enemy of the town, not you...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Interesting, interesting. I see some people haven't yet grasped the principles of getting discussion going. (hint:being slightly insulting and accusatory works wonders)

...

@GH: I like to see what they have too say for themselves first. Two posts for the price of one as it were.

Oh and before anyone says "well now you are trying to get sigurd lynched", 2 things: first I said they would have tried before now, and 2nd I'm not trying to get anyone lynched just trying to make discussion.

Sorry, I'm not convinced. You, sir, seem far too lynch-happy. If you want discussion going why don't you just publicly accuse people without voting for them?

Three people who you've voted so far based on "starting discussion" are myself, Myrddraal, and Sigurd. While I am suspicious of Sigurd now, it's far more suspicious that the people you vote for are two experienced players and one person who is new but fast grasping the game. You want to take out the threats.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sorry, I'm not convinced. You, sir, seem far too lynch-happy. If you want discussion going why don't you just publicly accuse people without voting for them?

Three people who you've voted so far based on "starting discussion" are myself, Myrddraal, and Sigurd. While I am suspicious of Sigurd now, it's far more suspicious that the people you vote for are two experienced players and one person who is new but fast grasping the game. You want to take out the threats.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

Lynch-happy? That would be defined as trying to get people lynched. I went out of my way to stop someone from being lynched. You on the other hand, just put the 4th vote on me putting me well in the lead. So who is lynch-happy?

Voting someone ensures they respond. It has nothing to do with getting them lynched.

I honestly don't recall voting for you. Also again: you say it's suspicious that I'm voting for the experienced players while you yourself vote me.

As a mafioso, you don't try to take out the threats during voting. You kill them. The people who are threats are usually also good at defending themselves. You go for the easy lynches (don) or the popular lynches...like, say, me.

You're making yourself look pretty suspicious here, bud.

Unvote:Sigurd
Vote:GeneralHankerchief

This is exactly the reason I try and start up discussion. Someone is bound to make a suspicious post eventually.

[Don Corleone]

While Sasaki makes some great points on the Sigurd issue, in reality, CR didn't make his Drisos accuser argument to throw suspicion off of Sigurd, he just made it.

Now, I have to disagree with Sasaki on two points: 1) that the mafia wants guilty looking (though really innocent) people to get lynched and 2) that a townie would defend somebody as guilty looking as I currently am, even if they really did think I was innocent.

On point 1), the mafia want to get the absolutely innocent lynched. Or, they want to whack them next round. Innocent people drag the mafia's odds down, as it gives them a smaller field of guilty looking folks to hide among. Guilty looking people (but innocent) though muddy the waters, allowing them to hide better.

Next, 2) what townie in his right mind would stick his neck out for somebody that's so far gone (granted, by first my own ignorance, then by my misguided efforts to coverup). Even if you thought I was innocent, you'd surely realize I'd be too far gone to save. You say, any townie would do it for somebody they know to be innocent. But there's no way you could possibly know that I'm innocent. Husar and Xiahou are acting reasonably. You on the other hand are acting like you're protecting an asset.

The most likely scenario in me getting lynched is that the mafia will stop killing one person a round for a couple of rounds, to throw up a screen. You're one of the best players, surely you'd know this. You'd also know that when that happens, you'd stick out like a sore thumb, as it would appear you defended, vehemently, a guilty man, and you'd be next on the block. The only way you could feel safe to defend me is if you know you can control the number of killings in the next round. If you defend me, and your defense is unsuccessful and I get lynched, you tell your cohorts to kill two, to exonerate you.

No, you're trying to line up a patsy for later use.

[Death Match]

Whatever. I suspect one of you will be the detective and Mafia will find out soon!! Ha ha. Not really. I'm no fan of the Mafia, but I suspect Sasaki.

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

[Sasaki Kojiro]

While Sasaki makes some great points on the Sigurd issue, in reality, CR didn't make his Drisos accuser argument to throw suspicion off of Sigurd, he just made it.

Entirely possible of course.

On point 1), the mafia want to get the absolutely innocent lynched. Or, they want to whack them next round. Innocent people drag the mafia's odds down, as it gives them a smaller field of guilty looking folks to hide among. Guilty looking people (but innocent) though muddy the waters, allowing them to hide better.

As a former mafioso I can tell you you are way off base here. As mafia you avoid accusing those who seem innocent. That makes you look guilty because everyone believes you are incorrect. If you accuse the guilty looking you'll blend in with the townies who are accusing that person as well.

"Lynch a townie, any townie, just please god lynch a townie" is what the mafia is thinking.

Next, 2) what townie in his right mind would stick his neck out for somebody that's so far gone (granted, by first my own ignorance, then by my misguided efforts to coverup). Even if you thought I was innocent, you'd surely realize I'd be too far gone to save. You say, any townie would do it for somebody they know to be innocent. But there's no way you could possibly know that I'm innocent. Husar and Xiahou are acting reasonably. You on the other hand are acting like you're protecting an asset.

Who said I'm in my right mind?

But really. I think you are innocent. I don't know for sure, but that's how I feel. A responsible townie would try to dissuade people, history has shown this to be true. Last game if you remember, silver, crazed rabbit, and BKS all defended me even though it was clear I would be lynched ("YOU FOOLS KNOW NOT WHAT YOU DO" etc)

The most likely scenario in me getting lynched is that the mafia will stop killing one person a round for a couple of rounds, to throw up a screen. You're one of the best players, surely you'd know this. You'd also know that when that happens, you'd stick out like a sore thumb, as it would appear you defended, vehemently, a guilty man, and you'd be next on the block. The only way you could feel safe to defend me is if you know you can control the number of killings in the next round. If you defend me, and your defense is unsuccessful and I get lynched, you tell your cohorts to kill two, to exonerate you.

No, you're trying to line up a patsy for later use.

huh? So, if you get lynched the mafia will kill 1 person to make you look guilty? They already tried that and no one bought it. I've already explained, with precedent from other games, why I'm defending you. There's no reason to come up with convoluted plots to explain that.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Seriously, people, I'm not so bad at playing mafioso that I would bring this much suspicion on myself. I could have lurked this whole round and said I was busy with The Black Hand. Easy peasy.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No responses...interesting, especially since several of you are online. Several people just took a jump up in my suspicions. You think you'll get away with quietly letting your vote stand?

[Kommodus]

I just want to point out that I told you guys I was innocent! Why didn't anyone believe me?

Oh yeah, and I still see my name on the "alive" list, so... Vote: Sigurd! (***NOTE A VOTE 'CAUSE I'M ACTUALLY DEAD***)

[Sigurd]

I have just come home from a weekend trip... it's 05:40am and I need to get some sleep... Catching up tomorrow later.

[Death Match]

I'm sorry Kommodos. Come join my game.

[Divine Wind]

Im not liking this, Sigurd / GHC alliance. It seems to me that you both defend each other rather subtlety. I believe there is some deeper stratagem going on between these two, since from the first round they have quietly hinted that they have been in contact with each other, and voted off each ones enemies like Sasaki this round.

I have just come home from a weekend trip... it's 05:40am and I need to get some sleep... Catching up tomorrow later.

Note: This comment was made at 04:42 by Sigurd.

No responses...interesting, especially since several of you are online. Several people just took a jump up in my suspicions. You think you'll get away with quietly letting your vote stand?

At 03:23, by Sasaki.

Now Sasaki, can you tell us whether Sigurd was one of these people online that didnt post?

If he was, then I would find it suspicious that in one hour and 19 minutes, this is the only post he could come up with. Yes it was early, yes Sigurd was probably tired if really has been away for the weekend, BUT who comes online for five minutes at that time in the morning just to read the mafia thread?

I'll tell you! A Guilty Man!

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane

[Dutch_guy]

Thats interesting. I say that because my initial reaction was - well that's an obvious frame, surely... but it depends. Isn't this Don's first game, and he's been displaying a lot of ignorance of the way the game works (even if some of it is put on).

So we're left with two (or three) possibilities:

1. Don C is mafia, he decided to get back at Sir Moody without realising that this would be picked up on.

2. The mafia tried to frame Don C by going for Sir Moody

(3. I'm barking up the wrong tree, however I don't like option 3, everything should be considered and added to the Grand Scales of Justice (tm) )

Unfortunately, I think 1 and 2 are equally likely... 1 seems very possible, but then again, what are the chances that a more experienced mafioso wouldn't tell him what he was doing? 2 also seems possible, but it seems like a clumsy frame... I figure that after all these mafia games, simple frames like that surely don't work anymore?


Also did anyone else notice this:


Reminds me of Osmium and as such should be thoroughly ignored.
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl...e=UTF-8&tab=wi

@ Dutch Guy

Well hes dead now, so yes... I feel like I'm missing something.


Vote: Don C
Because he's highest on my suspicious list. There isn't one thing which makes me suspicious of him, its the sum total of all the little things.





EDIT:




And that leaves us with:

Cowhead418
Sasaki Kojiro
Crazed Rabbit

CR suggests this theory, Sasaki then goes to say almost anyone but him can't be suspected because of this. That leaves an interesting situation. Is is possible that CR is onto something and Sasaki is being very clever (it would be like him ). Is it possible that CR and Sasaki are in it together? Seems unlikely... and then we're left with Cowhead. I'm not sure what to make of this, Sasaki and Cowhead seem to come of worse for this evidence, but not much (either due to a very good false defence by Sasaki, or by way of actually being innocent). You could go around and around...

Sorry for the late reply, but I had to react to this post, the part which quoted me of course.

Well, you might remember the chaos that ensued when Silver posted the kills a few turns back, it appeared that MRD was killed, but that Byz.merc was also killed. Now I missed the initial confusing, and afterwards thought that the mafia had planned to kill Byz Merc, but had decided to go for MRD. Now, I then proceeded to conclude that Silver's slip up just confirmed Byz Mercs innocence. Sadly, however, Byz Merc had been killed by the mafia, which needless to say also confirmed him innocent, but not In the way I imagined.

All in all, I probably misread the entire thing - as it was pretty confusing.

That clear enough ?

[Dutch_guy]

Now Sasaki, can you tell us whether Sigurd was one of these people online that didnt post?

Keep in mind, that he might still have invisible mode on - as that was mandatory in the Black Hand.

So, Sasaki might not have seen anything.

Im not liking this, Sigurd / GHC alliance. It seems to me that you both defend each other rather subtlety. I believe there is some deeper stratagem going on between these two, since from the first round they have quietly hinted that they have been in contact with each other, and voted off each ones enemies like Sasaki this round.

Well, GeneralH hasn't been posting as much as last games, that's what got my attention. Plus, he would be one of my choices as a mafioso, a good enough player to not make any stupid mistakes. Plus a player that as his role as hoster, probably knows more about the mafia, and corresponding tactics, than he might make public.

For now, I'm not voting for anyone just yet - I'm waiting to see what GeneralH has to say.

Vote:Abstain.