The Godfather, Part 2 [Concluded]

[Csargo]

Vote: Sigurd I say we find out if it's true or not. I wouldn't put it past Silver to do something like this.

^^here

I think the GH and Myrd detective thing is a bunch of crap. I doubt Myrd is the Godfather though but it's a possiblity. I don't think he would put himself out so much and take such a risk. My suspicion lies with Sigurd or DW I don't know which one though. God this is so confusing

I also said here that I thought it was Sigurd or DW. That proves nothing. There's nothing wrong with trying to finding out if it was true or not is there? But it seems that other's didn't agree with me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

GH was a mafioso, and Myrddraal was a mafioso. You agree with this you said so yourself. Then why did you find Sigurd suspicious, given that he voted for Myrddraal?

GH posted that sham pm thing hoping that people would read it and want to find out what happens if Sigurd is lynched. You, as another mafioso, would support his effort by voting for Sigurd. And yes there is a problem with trying to find out if it's true, if it wasn't and Sigurd had been lynched the mafia would have won last round.

[Csargo]

GH was a mafioso, and Myrddraal was a mafioso. You agree with this you said so yourself. Then why did you find Sigurd suspicious, given that he voted for Myrddraal?

GH posted that sham pm thing hoping that people would read it and want to find out what happens if Sigurd is lynched. You, as another mafioso, would support his effort by voting for Sigurd. And yes there is a problem with trying to find out if it's true, if it wasn't and Sigurd had been lynched the mafia would have won last round.

Already answered that buddy.

Yeah your right I didn't even think about that. I was too busy trying to find the GF and I missed something obvious stupid me

[Myrddraal]

I'm sorry, this doesn't cut it. In the pm posted by GeneralH, it showed that you had pm'd Silver with an investigation choice and the General stated that the way it worked was you both sent pm's to silver and he chose one of them to reply to both of you with.

Either you didn't read my post, or you are misleading again. I recieved the initial PM from Silver. It informed me of my position, and of GH. I also recieved the results from Silver. It was authentic, or at least, it was supported by Silver.

However, GH lied to me. I can see no other solution.

All I'll say is this. I have no idea who's guilty any more, not even you Sasaki. The only person I'm convinced of is GH.

However, now you've lynched me, you can't afford to screw up again. My suspicions lie with Sigurd or Divine Wind. I think Husar, Csar and Masy are innocent, because they weren't investigated and proven innocent in our investigations.

However, I'm sure you'll once more sweep my ideas under the carpet and continue to plunge in to the abyss. Just remember, we either have a Godfather and a mafioso left (in which case we must vote correctly this round to win), or just a Godfather, in which case we have two rounds.


I'm 99.9% convinced that either Sigurd of DW are the godfather, and that's where my vote would lie were I still alive. I think GH's supposed pm is just a fake, and a bad one too. However, since I've been lynched, I think my credibility is gone.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Either you didn't read my post, or you are misleading again. I recieved the initial PM from Silver. It informed me of my position, and of GH. I also recieved the results from Silver. It was authentic, or at least, it was supported by Silver.

However, GH lied to me. I can see no other solution.

...and that he's been manipulating me to reveal misleading advice to the town. In which case I cannot be sure of my previous investigations, or of our joint ones, in fact, dare I say I'd be inclined to say they are not correct.

...

Assuming this is the case (personally I'm convinced it is), I think we should look to the list of investigation results. If they were planted by the mafia, then they must have been designed to mislead. Of those named innocent or probably innocent by GH, only two remain:

Hmm? How could the investigation results have been planted by a mafia GH without you being a mafioso? It's not like he could have sent in requests to silver and lied to you about the results.

[Myrddraal]

I don't think you understand.

The results were sent to me by Silver, not by General Handkerchief. However, I think General Hanky was PMing Silver with the results of the investigation which were being passed to me. Either that or GH was playing a very strange game indeed.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah, sure. All of the original problems of the pm still stand you realize. On that note:

As Sasaki says, my initial PM was more coherent than that, and the mistakes there were were spelling, rather than line spacing, out of place spaces, and capitalised letters. This twist is obviously forged.

How delightful. This pm is obviously forged while the other one, despite all the irregularities mentioned, is obviously genuine.

If not to save you, then why did GH make up that pm? And why is the only possibility now that it is posted that he is a mafioso double agent? And why are you certain the "false" investigation list is a clue to the mafia? And why do you think it is Sigurd rather than Divine Wind?

There are too many questions you just don't have good answers for.

[Myrddraal]

What! I just can't get over these baseless attacks on me Sasaki!

And why is the only possibility now that it is posted that he is a mafioso double agent?

OK, so maybe he's not. Give me a better reason why he'd lie to me! And don't bother replying with a one liner saying I'm mafia. We've heard it all before, if you believe that, then my posts are worthless anyway.

And why are you certain the "false" investigation list is a clue to the mafia?

Look, it's really logical ok.

Possibility 1: If myself and GH were mafia, we would have included the godfather in the innocent or probably innocent category.

Possibility 2: If I am innocent, then GH would have included the godfather and any mafioso investigated in the innocent list.

Possibility 3: GH is telling the truth, we're all being had.

Either way, the evidence points to that list! How hard can it be, really! TBH, if I were mafia I wouldn't be bothing posting now, it seems whenever I post, Sasaki posts straight back to say: it doesn't add up, when it just does, and everyone does exactly the opposite of what I say...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What! I just can't get over these baseless attacks on me Sasaki!

You said I was guilty remember. You haven't been acting like a detective, and your story "doesn't add up".

OK, so maybe he's not. Give me a better reason why he'd lie to me! And don't bother replying with a one liner saying I'm mafia. We've heard it all before, if you believe that, then my posts are worthless anyway.

He didn't lie to you.

Look, it's really logical ok.

Possibility 1: If myself and GH were mafia, we would have included the godfather in the innocent or probably innocent category.

Possibility 2: If I am innocent, then GH would have included the godfather and any mafioso investigated in the innocent list.

Possibility 3: GH is telling the truth, we're all being had.

Either way, the evidence points to that list! How hard can it be, really! TBH, if I were mafia I wouldn't be bothing posting now, it seems whenever I post, Sasaki posts straight back to say: it doesn't add up, when it just does, and everyone does exactly the opposite of what I say...

Possibility 1: I'm not certain I would have done that in your place
Possibility 2: I'm not certain I would have done that in his place
Possibility 3: No way

In mafia it is never the case that all the evidence points a certain way, and you can't be sure a mafioso would make a certain choice. If you can be sure they would make a choice then they would make the opposite to fool you except you would know they would do that but then again they would know you would know etc etec around and around.

This is why I say your story doesn't add up, and thus your accusation of Sigurd and his vote for you continue to be points in his favor, and Csar's behavior vis a vis you and GH is a sign of guilt, however much you don't want that to be the case.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Also, one other point Myrddraal. You wish us to believe that for the twist in this game, Silver removed the detective and replaced him with a mafia pawn who would never discover any useful information and could instead be used to confuse the town, while giving one of the mafia an alibi in the form of a detective pm? Balance? Helloooo?

[Husar]

Hah, interesting to see how many suspicions were thrown around in my absence, I am now completely uncertain who could be connected with all this.
My suspicion now goes a bit towars Sigurd but I decided to stick to him now even if he is mafia, this simply makes my life easier and he is the only one who gives a bit of a reason to believe that he is innocent. The others didn't post enough for me to form any real opinion on them.
I would go for Divine Wind now and I believe that Csar and Masy are innocent.
Especially Csar seems to be rather innocent, he could come up with a good reasoning for all his flaws.

[Myrddraal]

Also, one other point Myrddraal. You wish us to believe that for the twist in this game, Silver removed the detective and replaced him with a mafia pawn who would never discover any useful information and could instead be used to confuse the town, while giving one of the mafia an alibi in the form of a detective pm? Balance? Helloooo?

Well umm.... no.

Let me make this as simple as possible:

What I know:
I recieved a PM from Silver informing that both I and GH were detectives.
I recieved PM's from Silver detailing the results of investigations.
GH has now posted a story I cannot accept, which means he must have lied to me.

What I'm assuming:
I was a dummy detective, misled into believing that I was real. Possible chosen by the godfather?
GH had a manipulatative role, possibly mafia, possibly not, possibly chosen by the godfather.
There was another, real detective, probably RTW_Guru.

I'm sorry if I'm being sarcastic Sasaki, but I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. If this is revenge for proclaiming you guilty, I have no idea if you are. You might well be, since the investigation was after your death, it might have suited GH to 'reveal' you as mafia so that we couldn't narrow down our choices too much.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

[QUOTE=Myrddraal]

What I know:
I recieved a PM from Silver informing that both I and GH were detectives.
I recieved PM's from Silver detailing the results of investigations.
GH has now posted a story I cannot accept, which means he must have lied to me.

It doesn't actually. If you were actually both detectives he could have posted that to help you out. Detectives are allowed to lie too you know. It merely suits your needs to disassociate yourself from him now that he is percieved as guilty.

What I'm assuming:
I was a dummy detective, misled into believing that I was real. Possible chosen by the godfather?
GH had a manipulatative role, possibly mafia, possibly not, possibly chosen by the godfather.
There was another, real detective, probably RTW_Guru.

How is that more balanced than what I posted? If rtwGuru had claimed in your scenario, GH and/or you would have posted and said he was lying and you had proof, and the mafia would have dropped the kills after he was lynched, thus vindicating you.

I'm sorry if I'm being sarcastic Sasaki, but I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

I feel your pain


Also, you didn't answer my previous post (I need a keyboard shortcut for this phrase).

[Myrddraal]

It doesn't actually. If you were actually both detectives he could have posted that to help you out. Detectives are allowed to lie too you know. It merely suits your needs to disassociate yourself from him now that he is percieved as guilty.

No, because if he was trying to save me, he would have got in touch first.

How is that more balanced than what I posted? If rtwGuru had claimed in your scenario, GH and/or you would have posted and said he was lying and you had proof, and the mafia would have dropped the kills after he was lynched, thus vindicating you.

Well I don't know, maybe the game is balanced in another way. Maybe there are other roles...

But remember that in GF1, the game was also biased by a manipulator role. That person, chose the detective. Balance?

I'm sorry Sasaki, can you just link to or pm me the things I've missed. I will try my best to answer them. I'm tired and off to bed.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, because if he was trying to save me, he would have got in touch first.

If you say so.

Well I don't know, maybe the game is balanced in another way. Maybe there are other roles...

But remember that in GF1, the game was also biased by a manipulator role. That person, chose the detective. Balance?

I was just an extra vote...and the choice of detective didn't have a huge impact I don't think. There was only one mafioso he could have uncovered. Far different from your proposed scenario.

I'm sorry Sasaki, can you just link to or pm me the things I've missed. I will try my best to answer them. I'm tired and off to bed.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=909

No worries.


I think we'll make it to 1000 folks

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Myrddraal:

All other arguments aside,

AFTER your partner "detective" was lynched, you investigated me, named me guilty, and listed a long list of my kills. Hanky did not do this, you did.

I was and am innocent.

So, either you:

were mafia and lying to bushwhack us (my vote)

OR

Silver's twist involves a role that can label innocents as guilty when the detective investigates them (NOT my vote).

I say you and Hanky were the chosen thugs -- but I was wrong about my first choice for GF.

Csar has the voting record that supports you two best, but

Masy has been under the radar all game

Divine Wind is in a sheltered position

Sigurd dragged down two innocents in succession

and Husar targeted Hanky at least once, always posted, and never missed a vote.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, tonight will remove one of those, and DW we can safely leave. So the choice will be out of 3.

[Myrddraal]

You said I was guilty remember. You haven't been acting like a detective, and your story "doesn't add up".

How is a detective supposed to act? I've just acted like me, I acted the for the short period in the last and only other game I played.

He didn't lie to you.

So you're saying GH is telling the truth?

Possibility 1: I'm not certain I would have done that in your place
Possibility 2: I'm not certain I would have done that in his place
Possibility 3: No way

In mafia it is never the case that all the evidence points a certain way, and you can't be sure a mafioso would make a certain choice. If you can be sure they would make a choice then they would make the opposite to fool you except you would know they would do that but then again they would know you would know etc etec around and around.

Well it's true. We could also be a pair of masons having a laugh, but some things are more likely than others.

[Husar]

and Husar targeted Hanky at least once, always posted, and never missed a vote.

Which basically means that I should get a life...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Which basically means that I should get a life...

...or your are seriously in danger of having a life appointed for you.

[Silver Rusher]

Day breaks in the Gameroom. All is quite.

Masy was a pious christian. In fact, he spent nearly all his time praying at St. Alexandr's Chapel, the church of the Gameroom, to save him from the threat of the mafia. So far, it had worked.

Another reason for staying in the church was the safety. If the mafia had any religious sense, they wouldn't kill him in the church. But killing isn't you couldn't do in that church. There were no toilets either, and Masy was desperate for one.

"No, I can't leave the church. I will do it here if I need to." said one side of Masy's conscience.

"But if you do your number one here, you will be befouling the sacred church!" said the other side.

Masy couldn't take it anymore. He decided to go just outside and do it behind a tree on the other side of the road. He walked out of the church, then ran as fast as possible across the road to the tree. He began unzipping his fly, before...

A van came along the road, bearing the words "Vincenzo's Guttering", and passed him just as Masy was letting it go. He was so relieved, he hadn't noticed.

The driver's window opened and out came a hand holding a tommy gun. It shot Masy several times before disappearing into the distance.

Chief of Police Divine Wind stepped up to the podium in the Gameroom town centre to deliver his message. There was a letter on it, waiting for him to read it. He cautiously stretched out his hand and picked it up, before opening and reading it, still with caution. It read:

"Dear townspeople,

Congratulations. You have successfully managed to kill off my two accoplices. But now, you shall pay dearly. At the time of the next execution, should you fail to choose me correctly, you will all die mercilessly. It has been too slow with you all dying one at a time; I look forward to the deaths of all 3 of you innocents together.

I'm sorry for making the message so short, but I do hope you will understand. And no, there were never 4 of us, that was just a delightful mirror illusion that had you running around like headless chickens.

Best regards,
The Godfather"

DW scrunched the letter in his hand.

"This is it," he said, "the final straw. It is crucially important that we get this execution right, or it is certainly too late. So important, in fact, that I myself will be voting. Cast your votes."

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody
theRTWGuru
Dutch_guy
Xiahou
Cowhead418
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Masy

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro
Ignoramus
Evil_Maniac From Mars
GeneralHankerchief
Seamus Fernanagh
Crazed Rabbit
Myrddraal

PM:
Destroyer of Hope

Wrath of God:
Big King Sanctaphrax
Peasant Phill

Still alive:
Csar
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Divine Wind

Final voting round. 4 players remain.

[Husar]

Vote: Csar

[Crazed Rabbit]

The mafia has admitted its lost two of its own. You can look at that as GH and Myrd, or Sasaki and Seamus.

Now, the town killed off Me, GH, and Myrd, because we were all supposed to be mafia. But it would seem that we are not. Obviously, not one of us is the godfather.

Suppose then that GH and Myrd were innocent and really detectives, then the only person still suspicious according to them is Husar.

Even if they are not detectives, then the only choices for mafia, it seems, are Sasaki and Seamus. If that were the case, then Husar would be the only choice. He voted for Don C at Sasaki's lynching, but voted for Seamus when it became clear he was going down. Csar voted for Sasaki when he could ahve saved him voting for Don C. It seems odd for Sigurd to be a mafia after he posted his suspicions of Kommodus and Ignoramous, which they admitted to.

Remember what I said after Seamus' execution? That the mafia would try to delay us voting on their godfather with stupid witchhunts? People thought we could throw away lynchings for a couple rounds, and look were we are.

That's why I would recommend everyone vote for Husar.

Crazed Rabbit

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Now, the town killed off Me, GH, and Myrd, because we were all supposed to be mafia. But it would seem that we are not. Obviously, not one of us is the godfather.

I still suspect you of having some pro mafia role. I haven't seen any other possible twists.

Suppose then that GH and Myrd were innocent and really detectives, then the only person still suspicious according to them is Husar.

Uh, no. According to GH no one is guilty, and according to Myrd it's either Sigurd or DW. Neither of them are claiming that there investigation results are valid.

The mafia has admitted its lost two of its own. You can look at that as GH and Myrd, or Sasaki and Seamus.

Even if they are not detectives, then the only choices for mafia, it seems, are Sasaki and Seamus.

edit: I must say it's really fitting for this game to come down to the wire like this. I'm on pins and needles here.

[GeneralHankerchief]

So, it all comes down to this.

*video game final boss music begins playing*

[Crazed Rabbit]

Time for....Mortal Combat!

Sasaki, like I said before, I'm completely innocent townie.

CR

[GeneralHankerchief]

Here is my analysis of the final four suspects. Hopefully I can live up to Seamus' reputation.

Csar: Has laid low for a lot of the game. Was the only person to believe that ridiculous PM I posted to take the heat off of my fellow Detective Myrddraal. Has had a fairly consistent voting record with myself and Myrd, meaning that he's probably the Godfather semi-distancing himself from his two mafia grunts.
GH sez: Guilty

Sigurd Fafnesbane: Somewhat suspicious the entire way through, posting a lot, changing two posting styles and getting two innocent people lynched. That ridiculous PM I wrote was meant to direct votes toward him, which probably means it was an elaborate plan designed to make him look innocent while making me look guilty.
GH sez: Guilty

Husar: First time player, seems to have gotten the hang of the game very quickly, almost as if he's had two experienced players guiding him all the way through. Recently he said that Csar was innocent and then promptly voted for him without a reason, probably after he realized that this would be the last round and he wanted to put the final nail in the town's coffin, no matter how suspicious he looked.
GH sez: Guilty

Divine Wind: The town's Chief of Police; hasn't really participated at all in the game. Caused GH to reveal that he was the Detective, even though it wasn't really a vote. Has been defended by GH several times in the game, which was probably a subtle way of a mafioso protecting his godfather, assuming of course that GH is a mafioso.
GH sez: Guilty

[Sasaki Kojiro]

LOL, I like it.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

With Silver's sweet little note, the finale has arrived.

Strictly on the numbers, a mafia win is 75% likely at this point.

Our four survivors heading into the last tribal council are:

Csar, Divine Wind, Husar, & Sigurd Fafnesbane.

As noted above, a case can be made for any of them as a GF.


So, do you believe in the guilt of those rapscallions Sasaki and Seamus, or in the guilt of the nefarious Myrddraal and General Hankerchief. Either way, kudos to the mafia wiseguys, they took the fall but created a scenario where their team is the likely winner, despite the odds.

Myrddraal tried to lynch Sigurd last round. Csar joined him.

Sigurd returned the favor, and Masy (RIP) and Husar joined him.

At the most simplistic of interpretations, this would suggest that Csar is a supporter of the Myrddraal/Hanky duet making him their godfather if you believe in their guilt.

If you believe in the guilt of Sasaki and Seamus, you have a slightly tougher choice, since either Husar or Sigurd could be their godfather -- though Husar's vote to kill Seamus, coming early and pushing hard for it in the round of Seamus's lynching, mitigates somewhat against that (of course, this is Seamus writing, so you have to be skeptical). Sigurd is your most "obvious" candidate.

Husar has already lodged a vote for Csar. What will Csar and Sigurd do? Remember, gents, you 3 must decide to kill someone -- a round robin of one vote apiece spells a certain mafia win.

Silver's choice to end it this round implies, but does NOT confirm, that Divine Wind is the Chief of Police and nothing more, since one more round would be, techically, possible were he the GF. It's possible that this is just a gamesmaster's choice to promote playability.

All in all, Sasaki and I are clearly less credible in the eyes of a majority of this game-group. Good luck to you all, but I have a suspicion I'll be greeting 3 of you soon.

[Masy]

Balls. Well, I openly fingered GH/Myrd/Csar, and only Csar would be left to kill me. Unless, of course, Csar told someone else (who still remains) to kill me, or he killed me at someones behest. It's all so confusing... i still think its Csar though, but hey, its up to you lot now.