The Godfather, Part 2 [Concluded]

[Husar]

BUT who comes online for five minutes at that time in the morning just to read the mafia thread?

I would.

On point 1), the mafia want to get the absolutely innocent lynched. Or, they want to whack them next round. Innocent people drag the mafia's odds down, as it gives them a smaller field of guilty looking folks to hide among. Guilty looking people (but innocent) though muddy the waters, allowing them to hide better.

Another good point to keep my vote for now, though many think you are suspicious, almost all changed their vote back and you seem to survive again, in case you really are mafia, this is very bad.

Husar and Xiahou are acting reasonably.

You're basically defending your worst enemies, maybe hoping to finally make friends? The understanding you show to your enemies is the only consistent line I noticed in your posting so far.

I want to break a spear for Sasaki here, I might be way off but my stomach tells me he is not necessarily guilty in this game, I grew some antipathy against him before which is one of the worst things one can do right next to sympathy. I now get the feeling that peoples' antipathy is triggered every time Sasaki makes a longer post though I do not see exactly why he should post that much anymore if it only makes him suspicious anyway, I actually believe him there, for now.

Whatever. I suspect one of you will be the detective and Mafia will find out soon!! Ha ha. Not really. I'm no fan of the Mafia, but I suspect Sasaki.

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

I'm sorry Kommodos. Come join my game.

He's either playing U-Boot or he may even be guilty, another one ignored by many.

[Death Match]

It seems obvious to me that you people are actually thinking of blaming people who are innocent now. As you see, Kommodos was not guilty after all. I haven't been reading carefully here, but I see that Sasaki Kojiro could be guilty as he is good at making people go the wrong direction. The funny thing is, Myrrdraal and Sasaki are trying to tell us that each other is the guilty one. Why?

This is a common, yet still sneaky, trick used by Mafiosi to convince us that they are both innocent. Yet, they still find way of avoiding the other's death by later merely suggesting that someone else maybe the mafioso!

Tell me, how suspicious do I look? Yet, I could hold some secret. But nobody suspects. Well, rest be informed, the only way to win against the brutal enemy, Mafia, is to No-Lynch for the moment.

Unvote: Sasaki Kojiro
Vote: No-Lynch

[Husar]

It seems obvious to me that you people are actually thinking of blaming people who are innocent now. As you see, Kommodos was not guilty after all. I haven't been reading carefully here, but I see that Sasaki Kojiro could be guilty as he is good at making people go the wrong direction. The funny thing is, Myrrdraal and Sasaki are trying to tell us that each other is the guilty one. Why?

This is a common, yet still sneaky, trick used by Mafiosi to convince us that they are both innocent. Yet, they still find way of avoiding the other's death by later merely suggesting that someone else maybe the mafioso!

Tell me, how suspicious do I look? Yet, I could hold some secret. But nobody suspects. Well, rest be informed, the only way to win against the brutal enemy, Mafia, is to No-Lynch for the moment.

Unvote: Sasaki Kojiro
Vote: No-Lynch

1. it's Kommodus, not Kommodos

2. saying Sasaki may be guilty because he is good at deception is about as good as saying Kommodus might be mafia because he was/is/may be good at finding them

3. Are you saying Sasaki and Myrddral might be both guilty but we better not vote for any of them?

4. do you have any explanation why we should not lynch except that you say so?

5. You're about the only one here who consistently tries to create a we vs. them attitude here while of course putting yourself into the we group, this could be a lame attempt at covering your mafia identity

Now I told you how suspicious you look.

[Don Corleone]

You're basically defending your worst enemies, maybe hoping to finally make friends? The understanding you show to your enemies is the only consistent line I noticed in your posting so far.

I've written myself off for lost and I'm chalking this game up as a learning experience. BUT, one thing I have learned... always look to motive. I used you as an example of the way a regular townie (granted an overly suspicious one) would probably act. At best, they just wouldn't say anything about me at all. Launching a Perry Mason style defense, such as Sasaki has done for me, makes me ask why?

Don't forget, Sasaki is really taking a huge chance defending me. Let's say I get lynched and the mafia decide to employ the kill one person trick (and Sasaki, it didn't not work the first time, they just moved away from it)... the mafia could kill Sasaki any time they wanted to, just by pointing to his rabid defense of me and then noting that the killings stopped when I died. Poof, Sasaki is gone too.

The only way it would be safe for him to tread this path is if he knows for certain that the mafia won't kill just one person next round. There's only one way he could know that.

And I still go back to my original question of why? I admit, I played the game badly for the first few rounds, and it makes me look unrecoverably guilty (I suspect Xiahou is going to default to me as mafia every time we play now, I've made such an impression). BUT! Sasaki seems convinced of my innocence. Why?

[Husar]

BUT! Sasaki seems convinced of my innocence. Why?

Well, you both seem to say that the mafia like to hide in a forest of suspicious people and you are suspicious.
One might say now that if they hide in a forest, we should just chop down the forest and they either are left in the open or get chopped in the process.
This leads me back to RTWGuru who wants to stop the chopping without giving any reason except that he says so.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I honestly don't recall voting for you

You voted for me in the first round, immediately after I abstained. You want to prevent an abstention?

Voting someone ensures they respond. It has nothing to do with getting them lynched.

When I vote, it’s either because I think they’re a mafioso or I believe that the person with the most votes is innocent. Not because I want to see them respond. If I wanted that, I would abstain while posting my suspicions, as I did with you earlier. You then responded, I saw some errors in your reasoning so I grew more convinced that you were a mafioso and voted for you.

Also again: you say it's suspicious that I'm voting for the experienced players while you yourself vote me.

I’m well aware of that fact. But the thing here is I called you on it first.

EDIT:

Im not liking this, Sigurd / GHC alliance. It seems to me that you both defend each other rather subtlety. I believe there is some deeper stratagem going on between these two, since from the first round they have quietly hinted that they have been in contact with each other, and voted off each ones enemies like Sasaki this round.

Well, GeneralH hasn't been posting as much as last games, that's what got my attention. Plus, he would be one of my choices as a mafioso, a good enough player to not make any stupid mistakes. Plus a player that as his role as hoster, probably knows more about the mafia, and corresponding tactics, than he might make public.

For now, I'm not voting for anyone just yet - I'm waiting to see what GeneralH has to say.

I don't think I've been less active - if I have, chalk it up to the fact that this week was a particularly painful one in school. As for revealing mafia tactics, I just did, but Sasaki seems to disagree.

Finally, my alliance with Sigurd: Where did this one come from? Yes, he told me in the chat about Kommodus' PM, but we are both chat regs and Mafia comes up a lot in there. The fact that there were two kills this round places immediate suspicion on him, because he was the main attacker of Kommodus. But Sasaki seems even more suspicious.

[Cowhead418]

I'm going to Vote: RTWGuru. Why? He's made several suspicious posts and yet seems to keep a tone to these posts that makes him ignored by nearly everyone. Seriously, if you are even half-certain that either Sasaki or Myrd is mafia, then why would you want to not lynch? How exactly would that help the town? To me, this seems like a miscalculated mistake by you, and you are trying too hard to appear innocent by voting no lynch. I don't buy it, care to explain yourself?

[Drisos]

Vote off RTWGuru! Leave Sasaki alive!

Oh right... I'm dead.. well..

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Upon furthur analysis, Crazed Rabbit, GeneralHankerchief, and Don Corleone are the 3 mafiosos, with Crazed Rabbit being Godfather.


Myrddraal, Sigurd, and Seamus have all raised my suspicions but I can't link them together particularly...

I'll post my evidence soon but for now, Unvote:GeneralH, Vote:Don Corleone although I'm still ahead in votes 4:3 with half an hour left...

Page 3 won't load! arrg

[Dutch_guy]

Upon furthur analysis, Crazed Rabbit, GeneralHankerchief, and Don Corleone are the 3 mafiosos, with Crazed Rabbit being Godfather.


Myrddraal, Sigurd, and Seamus have all raised my suspicions but I can't link them together particularly...

I'll post my evidence soon but for now, Unvote:GeneralH, Vote:Don Corleone although I'm still ahead in votes 4:3 with half an hour left...

Hmm well, from what I've read in the thread thus far, Don Corleone seems to be an innocent towny, albeit a slightly un experienced one. His ignorance on some parts of the game seems genuine...

GeneralH, however, I find to act a bit more suspicious than in other games, don't know why it just seems that way. Crazed Rabbit has also been a bit less active than he normally is, a bit too much of those anonymous 3 line max posts. I'd like to hear him on that.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok, game starts and GH tries to get people to abstain:

Vote: Abstain

This will most likely be changed depending on conversation.

And finds my calling him on this suspicious.

Don Corleone also argues in favor of it in a lengthy post. He eventually sees reason and random votes Crazed Rabbit.

Crazed Rabbit then posts this:

*At Crazed Rabbit's Tree and Gleann Pub, CR hears the recent news and stops eating his steak*

What's this Don?

I'm getting voted to be lynched (to death, you know!) because of a random number system?!

Of all the farfetched reasons...

Now, I can understand that you're new and all, and I can forgive the 'lets not lynch anyone' and other errors.

But this? This I cannot forgive.

Vote: Don Corleone

You broke my heart, Don, you broke my heart.

Isn't that nice. After all, mafia wouldn't vote for eachother, would they? But don't worry, they unvote eachother quite quickly.

GeneralH then starts to try and get clues from the mafia kills (the kind of clues that the mafia always plant) and his suspicion list points to (surprise) Myself, Divine Wind, and Ignoramus. Myrddraal agrees with him which is one of the reasons he's on my list. He also questions whether the CoP will be replaced, as if he is questioning whether it would be to the mafia's advantage to lynch Divine Wind now.

Just a thought for those voting DW. If we lynch the CoP will he be replaced? If not, we probably don't want to go about killing him just yet.

Silver?

Crazed Rabbit now Unvotes Don and jumps on the Drisos wagon.

Don Corleone then makes another quite suspicious post. He calls out Proletariat and Xiahou for basing things off of lemurs argument, while neglecting to mention that Myrddraal and GeneralH brought it up as well. Interesting.

Sigurd agrees with him and mentions that they are both using invisibility mode.

Don brings up the Proletariat and Xiahou suspicions again, and makes the suggestion that all those who are posting are innocent.

He then attempts to cast suspicion on me:

-Is it just me or is Sasaki trying very hard to lead the group. To where...?

Which is odd considering his pm to me around the same time:

Kinda goes without saying that I'm pretty damned sure that you're not mafia.

Especially odd considering he has voted for me this round. The only way he could be sure I'm innocent is if he's mafia.

Then comes the mangled kill posting by Silver. Don, Crazed Rabbit, and Myrddraal are all confused by this. From past games I think we can see that the mafia are likely to comment in this situation.

Sigurd posts that he has reason to suspect Kommodus. Remember that it is in the mafia's best interest to lynch Kommodus rather than Kill him because if he's killed he's proved innocent and can still work against him.

Crazed Rabbit and Myrddraal immedietly question his claim (voting would be seen as suspicious). GeneralH is "convinced" by Sigurd in chat and votes Kommodus.

Sigurd explains his argument which is very sketchy. Myrddraal votes for Kommodus while questioning those who vote for Kommodus

Seamus votes Kommodus without giving a reason. This and he general change in posting stile from cosa nuova make me suspect him.https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/editpost.php

Don Corleone immedietly tries to get Sigurd lynched following Kommodus' death (something mentioned earlier by Myrddraal):

This is messed up. The mafia is screwing with us. There's no way we've nailed two of them. I doubt we've even nailed one. Talk about cheesy tricks. Okay, sorry Sigfurd, just too obvious. "Trust you, and all the mafia go away" and then they all do?

Vote: Sigfurd

Crazed Rabbit then posts a long list of who voted for Drisos while ignoring the 2nd round and Sigurd. Oddly enough, I'm the only one on his list who voted for Drisos each time.

Myrddraal votes Don c on poor evidence, and agrees with crazed that I look guilty by that evidence.

Don continues his habit from last round of voting for someone who hasn't been posting much.

I call Myrddraal on his post and he quickly votes me. Notice that he unvotes don and votes me while saying "anyway, what's wrong with my logic? I've tried to consider everything, what have I missed? " So he thinks his logic voting for Don is good but he unvotes him?

Don, Crazed Rabbit, and GeneralHankerchief all jump on the Sasaki wagon

They see a chance to lynch me and go for it. I answer all of their accusations but they quietly leave their vote on me and sit watching the thread doing nothing.


I'll finish this up in a bit...Myrddraal is looking more suspicious than GeneralH at this moment.

[Drisos]

Someone vote Don Corleone immediately, please!

I received a PM of him... at first I tought it proved his innocence.. but I think that's what he tried to achieve, seen the fact I post the names of those I suspect and those I think are innocent sometimes, while I'm dead.

Lynch him.

Next turn, Lynch Crazed Rabbit. If you don't win, lynch Sasaki. But I highly doubt that.

Good luck!

[Silver Rusher]

*****Voting Closed*****

[Drisos]

*****Voting Closed*****

Crap. Sasaki is lynched instead. Well. Lynch Don Corleone or Crazed Rabbit next turn. Preferably Crazed Rabbit.

The mafia will probably return to the 'one-kill-each-round' strategy, to have us think Sasaki was mafia, so people won't vote off the ones he named as Mafia.

[Sigurd]

I am not ahead as lynch candidate? But Sasaki is?
Where is the logic?

Since my last drama torch (see the accusation of Kommodus), I have been out.. Yes, I actually left the computer for nearly two full days and took my wife out for a good time. It was daylight saving too this weekend and we got an extra hour to enjoy ourselves. That was probably why the times got mixed up DW.

These games do need a little drama to stay interesting and more of you should chip in.
Did my stunt ferret out any suspicious behaviour? Did you see anything?
I came up with nothing except theRTWGuru’s little Reeinkster hints.

Sasaki actually gave us a great method of reasoning; if you were Godfather who would you choose as your henchmen? Nobody actually picket up on this. It would be funny to see if anyone particular derailed this line of thought.
Kommodus would have been high on several lists I imagine.
Now who would I have chosen if I were Godfather? A lot of names come to mind. You have the great veteran mafia players like Kommodus, Sasaki, GH, Cowhead and CR.
If the Godfather is an inexperienced player he/she would probably get one of them onboard.
If the Godfather is experienced he/she would probably take fresh blood on.
If I where Godfather my short list would have included Proletariat, Myrddraal and Seamus.
None of them have been mafia before and they seem like intelligent players.
Then you have the new players Don C, Husar and MRD who most of us know from before and could sway favourably in the selection process.
Then you have the players we don’t really know (speaking for myself) like theRTWGuru, Ultrawar, Byzantine Mercenary and Peasant Phill. I guess taking in unknown players would pose a risk.

As I mentioned earlier Sasakiis leading the tally, but I think he is the genuine townie in this game.
We need to lynch someone and it does take a bandwagon to do so.
To counter the Sasaki BW I’ll join the Don C BW because he would be a good candidate (even after many votes) for the Godfather.

Vote:Don C

[edit]: Silver, you got to extend this voting as there has been some problems getting pages in the .org up. This is my first successful attempt since around 9pm. (it's now 10:30pm)

[Drisos]

[edit]: Silver, you got to extend this voting as there has been some problems getting pages in the .org up. This is my first successful attempt since around 9pm. (it's now 10:30pm)

.org has been running fine for me... However if you really had such problems, your vote should be included... which woul bring a tie...

[Sigurd]

8 people has not voted at all and it could be that some of them experienced similar problems as I did.

I kept trying though because I had already typed up my reply.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Don, Crazed Rabbit, and GeneralHankerchief all jump on the Sasaki wagon

They see a chance to lynch me and go for it. I answer all of their accusations but they quietly leave their vote on me and sit watching the thread doing nothing.

In being so quick to gallantly name the "three mafiosi" you did not respond to my latest defense of your accusations. You call that "quietly leaving [my] vote on [you]?"

And I don't hear you saying anything about the people who voted for the Don. I guess because they're working to save you, they're exempt from the bandwagon rule, huh?

[Silver Rusher]

Evening in the Gameroom.

The abandoned quarry just off Route 405 seemed to Chief of Police Divine Wind as the perfect place to execute Sasaki Kojiro. He was to be stoned, and the quarry was full of stones both small and large.

SK was actually at home listening to AC/DC when DW arrived at his house to pick him up. DW ran with full force into Sasaki's front door, but it was no use. It was hard as a rock. DW tried again several times, failing again each time. He then noticed a fly on the wall, which got off and flew into the wide open front room window right next to him.

"Strange. I didn't notice that." DW mused, before climbing in. It was a tight squeeze, but DW kept a stiff upper lip the whole time. He fell through and made a huge noise.

Obviously, Sasaki knew all this was coming, but even so he stayed in the next room listening to his music. What was the rush? He was going to be caught either way. Might as well listen to more of his favourite band beforehand.

DW burst in and grabbed Sasaki. Without any resistance he was handcuffed and blindfolded. He was dragged through the house, knocking over several of the precious vases that Sasaki had collected, out of the house, and loaded into a van. The van drove off.

Later...

The van door opened and Sasaki was pulled out. He stood, wondering where he was. He must have been outside, and he could hear whispers of people.

"3, 2, 1... GO!"

The blindfold was removed and Sasaki was able to catch a glimpse of the trees, the birds, the beautiful quarry and, of course, the angry mob hurling rocks at him before the stones hit several vital organs and he collapsed on the ground. Dead.

Tally:
Sasaki Kojiro - 4 votes (GeneralHankerchief, Csar, Crazed Rabbit, Don Corleone)
Abstain - 3 (Dutch_guy, Myrddraal, Evil_Maniac From Mars)
Don Corleone - 2 votes (Xiahou, Husar)
Sigurd Fafnesbane - 1 vote (Divine Wind)
GeneralHankerchief - 1 vote (Sasaki Kojiro)
theRTWGuru - 1 vote (Cowhead418)
No Lynch - 1 vote (theRTWGuru)
No vote - 7 (Masy, Big King Sanctaphrax, Proletariat, Seamus Fernanagh, Ignoramus, Peasant Phill, Destroyer of Hope)

Status List

Killed By Mafia:
Lemur
UltraWar
Major Robert Dump
Byzantine Mercenary
Sir Moody

Lynched:
Drisos
Kommodus
Sasaki Kojiro

Still alive:
Masy
Big King Sanctaphrax
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Don Corleone
Seamus Fernanagh
Evil_Maniac From Mars
Crazed Rabbit
Ignoramus
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
Cowhead418
Dutch_guy
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Husar
Destroyer of Hope
theRTWGuru
Divine Wind
Myrddraal

PMs please.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In being so quick to gallantly name the "three mafiosi" you did not respond to my latest defense of your accusations. You call that "quietly leaving [my] vote on [you]?"

It took you some time. Also it went like this:

You accused me with some arguments.

I pointed out that your arguments applied more strongly to you than me.

You did not dispute this in your reply.

And I don't hear you saying anything about the people who voted for the Don. I guess because they're working to save you, they're exempt from the bandwagon rule, huh?

You mean...husar and Xiahou? They've suspected Don for a while. In Xiahous case it was because of that PM Don sent him. The only other vote on Don is my own, and I have ample reasoning.

Remember, bandwagoning is when a significant part of your reason for voting someone is that they already have votes on them.





Also you people should consider this: in the Godfather pt1, GeneralH selected one experienced player and one new player. Avoided putting all his eggs in one basket as it were. It's likely the godfather has taken the same strategy this time, choosing Don C and Myrddraal.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Silver, as much as it pains me to say this, I think your tally's wrong. The Don has more votes than that, and you don't include Sigurd or Husar's vote anywhere (not even in "didn't vote")

[Sasaki Kojiro]

SK was actually at home listening to AC/DC

[GeneralHankerchief]

It took you some time. Also it went like this:

You accused me with some arguments.

I pointed out that your arguments applied more strongly to you than me.

You did not dispute this in your reply.



You mean...husar and Xiahou? They've suspected Don for a while. In Xiahous case it was because of that PM Don sent him. The only other vote on Don is my own, and I have ample reasoning.

Remember, bandwagoning is when a significant part of your reason for voting someone is that they already have votes on them.

So first of all, you're not going to respond to my defense because I didn't post them... right away?



You're right, I didn't dispute them in my reply. Instead I just pointed out how your logic was wrong.

[Silver Rusher]

I was wondering how long it would be before somebody pointed out a flaw in my post.

EDIT: I made a mistake with Husar, I admit, but the reason Sigurd isn't included is because he made his vote after I closed the votes. Because of this I didn't include him in the no votes section either (just to be fair).

It's fixed now.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So first of all, you're not going to respond to my defense because I didn't post them... right away?



You're right, I didn't dispute them in my reply. Instead I just pointed out how your logic was wrong.

You were sitting watching the thread for quite some time, and only posted your reply when I called you on it. And you showed no such thing. "I accused you first" doesn't lend any creedence to your accusation.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I was wondering how long it would be before somebody pointed out a flaw in my post.

EDIT: I made a mistake with Husar, I admit, but the reason Sigurd isn't included is because he made his vote after I closed the votes. Because of this I didn't include him in the no votes section either (just to be fair).

It's fixed now.

I voted for Don as well


Holy ****, when did I pass 4,000?? And how did I not notice? Whoah.

[GeneralHankerchief]

You were sitting watching the thread for quite some time, and only posted your reply when I called you on it. And you showed no such thing. "I accused you first" doesn't lend any creedence to your accusation.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I still responded, didn't I? Bottom line is, you didn't directly reply to it.

And why does it not lend any credence to my accusation? If you haven't noticed, my votes were for abstention, Drisos, abstention, and you. Only 1 out of my 4 votes were for "threats."

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What on earth does that have to do with anything? I still responded, didn't I? Bottom line is, you didn't directly reply to it.

And why does it not lend any credence to my accusation? If you haven't noticed, my votes were for abstention, Drisos, abstention, and you. Only 1 out of my 4 votes were for "threats."

Because you tried to get out of responding. You can't deny that. As for replying to your post, you made it at 9:42. I don't get up that early on weekends :p As you no doubt noticed, my posting energy was devoted elsewhere.


You were focused on one person, that's all.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Because you tried to get out of responding. You can't deny that. As for replying to your post, you made it at 9:42. I don't get up that early on weekends :p As you no doubt noticed, my posting energy was devoted elsewhere.


You were focused on one person, that's all.

Uh, no. Were you watching when I was replying to the post and then decided not to, because I didn't feel it addressed everything and I wanted to watch TV?

Anyway, wow, you don't get up that early. So what? There was ample time between when I posted and when you said that I just silently kept my vote without responding.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Uh, no. Were you watching when I was replying to the post and then decided not to, because I didn't feel it addressed everything and I wanted to watch TV?

No dude, let me explain it to you. When I was mafia last game, as soon as the votes started piling up on Kagemusha I stopped posting. If you keep posting you give your detractors something to argue with. Divine Wind called me on it last game and I'm calling you on it this game.

Anyway, wow, you don't get up that early. So what? There was ample time between when I posted and when you said that I just silently kept my vote without responding.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=401