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  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    [NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senators, I am glad there are a few men of integrity still left in this place. The venerable Praetor Coruncanius leads the way, as he as always done. And young Cnaeus Caprarius comes forward to carry on the torch of duty, honour and the old Roman ways.

    But to the rest of you Senators who have spoken, I say this: Your fawning before the Consul merely augurs the death of the Republic. We are a nation of law - it is what binds us together, protects against the vagaries of personal ambition and whim. This bond is broken when we, the guardians of Rome, her protectors, sanction an unconstitutional act merely because it is for an end that we support.

    You want war with Iberia? Fine, you have it. But that is irrelevant to this debate. If you wanted war with Iberia, you should have argued for it here. Even the servile Marcellus was too faint hearted to advocate such an act when I called his bluff recently in this house. None of you dared argue for that course, knowing such a war to be unnecessary, reckless and rapacious. But if you want war with Iberia, fine. You know what should have been done. A motion should have been brought forward. The required majority obtained. The Consul dully authorised. If you wanted it, you should have done it but done it right. Not this way. Not by the fiat of the Consul. Not by breaking one of the founding rules of the constitution that we have abided by throughout recorded history.

    Senators, we should go home. Go, now, back to your villas. Shut down this place. When the Consul can tread over the constitution just because he does not agree with the consensus in the Senate, what purpose is there in us staying here? We are not needed. Let the Consul merely imprint out likenesses on a seal and use it to stamp any edict he chooses. Nay, why bother with edicts or motions? Let the Consul merely wake up every morning and decide what service he would like our great country, his cheap harlot, to perform for him that day!
    Last edited by econ21; 11-28-2006 at 16:37.

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    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    Senators, this issue puts me in an impossible position.

    On one hand, we are now at war with Iberia. I obviously advocated this, and am pleased that it has now begun. However, I am not pleased with the method that Servius, my nephew, has begun this.

    Unless this invasion was begun with an Iberian attack on Roman soil, I do believe that this move was in fact, illegal. If this was any other person aside from an Aemilius, I would obviously call for impeachment.

    So, Senators, I am now turn. Where do my loyalties lie? With my kin or the law? This is a question nobody should have to answer, yet here I am, posed that very question.

    Until I get more time to think on this, I shall abstain from all procedures relating to this incident.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
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  3. #3
    Senator Lucius Aemilius Member Death the destroyer of worlds's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    Senators,

    While I feel the dissension amongst you, you must realize that the decisions we are making in this emergency session concern the most vital issues on which Rome is founded. Ever since the glorious day of Brutus, the senate has guarded the Republic. Countless citizens trust us to safeguard them from evil despots. Alone amongst all the nations in the world (sotto voice: except Carthage) our citizens are free, and not serfs of some capricious ruler.

    Now you are called upon to show your worthiness of this most important of responsibilities ! Your actions in this session will determine the fate of our Republic. Will we submit and start on the road to becoming yet anther despot empire ? Or shall we stand straight as true Romans and punish this abuser of power !

    I will not second Emergency motion 1 ! With his unconstitutional actions Servius Aemilius has lost the right to all honours his previous successes might have warranted.

    I will definitely second Emergency motion 2 and I call upon all those present to set aside their personal feelings towards this consul and to live up to their responsibility as guardian of the state !

    I will not second Emergency motion 3. The killing of a man's own slave does not require a sanction under our laws. I, for one, will not miss UPS Maximus in the least.

    I will also second Emergency Motion 4, although I regret that this has become necessary.

    Lastly, and it pains me to enter these motions, as it concerns my own grandson, I will submit

    Emergency motion 5: Because of excessive abuse of power, Servius Aemilius is immediately removed from office, banished from Italy and loses all rights as a Roman citizen.

    Emergency motion 6: Because of excessive abuse of power, Servius Aemilius is to be considered an enemy of the state. It is the duty of any freedom-loving Roman to kill him on sight.

    His responsibility for all the Romans that will die in this unprovoked war with Iberia calls for no less.
    Currently Lucius Aemilius, Praetor of the Field Army II, in "The Will of the Senate" PBeM


  4. #4
    Research Shinobi Senior Member Tamur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    (Appius Barbatus)

    I will, with a heavy heart, second emergency Motion 5. As the esteemed Numerius Aureolus has said, the constitution and the laws which govern us cannot be trampled in such a way. If we allow this to move forward unchecked, then Rome loses its strength and becomes just another kingdom on its way to dissolution.

    However, I cannot agree with Motion 6. Though his actions endanger the Republic's western border, I do not believe Consul Aemilius is willfully attempting to undermine or destroy Rome itself. Rather, he is attempting to take it for his own. Though there is no Lucretia involved, the state itself, our laws and honour, have been continuously raped by this man, and he must suffer the same punishment as that Tarquin of old.

    May I remind you, gentlemen, of the words of the Greek named Aristotle. To be without one's city is worse than death.
    "Die Wahrheit ruht in Gott / Uns bleibt das Forschen." Johann von Müller

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    Enough of this ridiculous talk of Servius setting himself up as King!

    He has already stated his wish to retire to Palma. If he does so Conscript Fathers, might I be so adventurous as to suggest that he would not be positioning himself to sit on a Roman throne?

    All this talk of Servius usurping the Senate is ridiculous. War with Iberia has been brewing for decades. Matter of fact it has only NOT happened because of a mixture of prudent restraint and flat out shameful cowardice on our behalf. During the consulship of Servius, this house discussed at great length a pre-emptive war with Iberia, and agreed to such a war. Why else were out Legions positioned so? I myself am at the west end of Afrika precisely because under the plan laid before the Senate my Legion is to strike into southern Iberia. The only thing missing from this attack was a motion authorising it, little more than a rubber stamp.

    Furthermore, we are at last coming to the aid of our hard-pressed (and only!) allies, Germania. Do we need a motion to aid an ally? Is Roman honour, is the word of a Roman reliant upon the selfish and unpredictable votes of a bunch of rich old men?

    Finally Senators, why do you antagonise Servius? Lucius, you are the greatest Aemilli of us all, why must you propose such provocative motions? Surely you know that Servius is not a man for backing down? With such motions you do threaten not just Servius, but yourself, the house of Aemilii and all of Rome.
    "I request permanent reassignment to the Gallic frontier. Nay, I demand reassignment. Perhaps it is improper to say so, but I refuse to fight against the Greeks or Macedonians any more. Give my command to another, for I cannot, I will not, lead an army into battle against a civilized nation so long as the Gauls survive. I am not the young man I once was, but I swear before Jupiter Optimus Maximus that I shall see a world without Gauls before I take my final breath."

    Senator Augustus Verginius

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    [NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: I will second motion 5. I cannot in conscience sanction motion 6, for, having condemned Servius for wantonly spilling blood, I cannot then turn around and do likewise.

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    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    Senator Oppius Aemilius,

    If war with Iberia was so heavily supported within the Senate and so urgently necessary, why did the Consul not call an emergency session of his own to get a legal declaration of war? This is not an inflexible body and if the proper procedures had been used, this issue would not have arisen. The fact that a legal declaration of war could have been obtained is, if anything, even more condemning of the Consul's actions. He could have gained all he sought, yet chose to brush aside the most basic laws of the Senate! He has shown nothing but contempt for the Republic and deserves the same in return.


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    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    Motion 5 will have my support. Motion 6 will just prove our dear leader right about himself, and we wouldn't want that, would we?
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

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  9. #9
    AO Viking's Tactician Member Lucjan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations IV

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow
    Senator Oppius Aemilius,

    If war with Iberia was so heavily supported within the Senate and so urgently necessary, why did the Consul not call an emergency session of his own to get a legal declaration of war? This is not an inflexible body and if the proper procedures had been used, this issue would not have arisen. The fact that a legal declaration of war could have been obtained is, if anything, even more condemning of the Consul's actions. He could have gained all he sought, yet chose to brush aside the most basic laws of the Senate! He has shown nothing but contempt for the Republic and deserves the same in return.
    *A clerk within the senate speaks up.* Actually, Senator, I believe the consul has probably taken the actions he has because this is an extremely inflexible body. May I make a few quotes.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow
    I also stand with Senator Aureolus. Our many wars have begun for numerous different reasons, but our objectives have always been the same: benefits for the Roman people, be they in security, wealth, slaves, or other things. There is little to be gained from Iberia. The barbarians are of little threat to our trained Legions, especially with the strong border that Consul Servius Aemilius has so masterfully constructed.

    Yet in the East, Seleucia and Ptolemy control vast and prosperous territories. With Italy, Greece, Macedon and Carthage already under our control, the Eastern territories are the only rich lands in the known world not subject to Republican rule. Wars must be fought for the benefit of the Roman people. There is no benefit to be had in Iberian territories. Let us continue to push eastwards.
    You made this statement directly following our consul's support of the Iberian war.

    The consul had made this statement before the majority of the dissenting opinions from Marcellus's view had been heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucjan
    I do not feel that such extensive eastward expansion would yet benefit the strengths of the Republic. If Marcellus promises to maintain the borders "as is" in our Asian lands, when my consulship ends, I will stand behind him should he make a bid for the consulship. Provided there is nothing of any significance that I would have to dispute him on.
    Later on, after full support of the senate had been propped up behind Numerious. Judging from past experience, how could the consul have possibly obtained a motion to go to war with Iberia, which he clearly supported with Marcellus, when the entirety of the senate stood against this? You know the senators do not change their minds unless their own assets seems to be endangered. Don't be so foolhardy as to suggest that they do. The consul made a compliant remark with the support for the east after that and then the following statements were made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamur
    Do I indeed hear no dissenting voice besides our esteemed but misguided colleage, Marcellus Aemilius? It is indeed a strange day in the Senate, what odd events await us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucjan
    Indeed, even I seem to be left uncontested in my thoughts. Truly this must mean the end of the world. *Servius laughs cynically.*
    Unless I'm mistaken it seems that this time around the consul has managed to not get himself verbally assaulted, kicked around, threatened with impeachment and otherwise harassed by this senate by just nodding to make us happy then ignoring us.

    We have nothing to complain about with this new development. It is this senate who has caused this. This senate, in its treatment of that man, created its own monster.

    If you are fearful of Servius's now blatant ignorance of the senate's wishes, perhaps his treatment in the past should have been more like an equal and less like the senate's play thing.

    I do not see a senator here who hadn't at one point in time stood steadfastly against one of the consul's ideas, then quickly changed his tune when the idea bore more fruit than the one they had supported.

    Pass whatever motions you wish, but I have watched this senate and I have watched the consul throughout these years. It is the actions of this senate that will determine whether this republic stays a republic. Letting the consul have his way will see him return to Palma in a few short years, when Iberia has been laid to rest, and he will not return to these courts again. But if you take this chance to stick yet one more dagger in his back, then watch yourselves. He has outmaneouvered and outsmarted the Seleucids, the Carthaginians, and now, even this senate in order to see his intentions through. Mark my words senators, if Servius is threatened, there will be war. There will be war, and the republic....will fall.

    On your own heads be it.
    Last edited by Lucjan; 11-27-2006 at 17:55.

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