Hermann Goering

**Kralizec** · 10-24-2006, 12:05

Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi

Yes there are. But the Holocaust trumps them all. This was an attempt to wipe out an entire people on an industrial scale. And furthermore it was done in a supposedly modern, enlightened age. In a post WW1 world were mankind was supposed to have put all that kind of stuff behind him. In one of the most educated countries on Earth. Stuff like the Boer war is hardly worth mentioning compared to the Holocaust.

The war crimes perpetrated at the Ostfront trumps even the holocaust. The Germans didn't go there just to subjegate like with France or the low countries, but with the intent of freeing up lebensraum for future German colonists. The Germans murdered an estimated 17 million Russian civilians.
General Eisenhower had this to say:
"When we flew into Russia, in 1945, I did not see a house standing between the western borders of the country and the area around Moscow. Through this overrun region, Marshal Zhukov told me, so many numbers of women, children and old men had been killed that the Russian Government would never be able to estimate the total."

I don't recall having heard or seen this mentioned even once while I was in high school, and it's not made up.

**Stig** · 10-24-2006, 12:15

When I was at High School they told the Russians used the same tactic as with Napoleon, just withdrawing and burning all supplies, towns etc.

**Kralizec** · 10-24-2006, 12:16

That I heard to, but that can't account for 17 million dead peasants...

For one thing the Nazis confiscated the little food and other recources left behind.

**Fragony** · 10-24-2006, 13:49

Originally Posted by Kralizec

That I heard to, but that can't account for 17 million dead peasants...

For one thing the Nazis confiscated the little food and other recources left behind.

'Tactics of the scorched earth', no food no nothing, and don't forget that Russia is massive. I was told that 17 million russians civilian died, something else then killed. Anyway, not nice at all.

**KrooK** · 10-24-2006, 13:51

Stig - movies are not source of history. Please use normal sources.

If you are talking about nazist who escaped to America - have you forgot that US government helped many nazist escape to United States and became Americans.

**Stig** · 10-24-2006, 13:58

Stig - movies are not source of history. Please use normal sources.

Why aren't movies that are historically accurate and not a Hollywood blockbuster no source of history. If this movie isn't a source of history then books aren't sources either.
Go and watch it before you start

If you are talking about nazist who escaped to America - have you forgot that US government helped many nazist escape to United States and became Americans.

That's different. The Vatican helped the top nazi's (what's that kraut called that did experiments in one of the camps). The USA helped rocket scientist, no real nazi's.

**Dutch_guy** · 10-24-2006, 14:01

Originally Posted by Stig

That's different. The Vatican helped the top nazi's (what's that kraut called that did experiments in one of the camps). The USA helped rocket scientist, no real nazi's.

Mengele, the Auschwitz ''doctor''

**Stig** · 10-24-2006, 15:08

Yup that's the one

**Petrus** · 10-24-2006, 15:29

Originally Posted by Stig

That's different. The Vatican helped the top nazi's (what's that kraut called that did experiments in one of the camps). The USA helped rocket scientist, no real nazi's.

Top scientists were nazis just like everyone that wanted to have a career in germany during those times.

But the us also helped hard core Nazis, from the Gestapo, ss etc … as long as they could be useful.

Ever heard about Klaus Barbie?

**Stig** · 10-24-2006, 15:44

Rocket scientists are nazi's yes, but in that case every ordinary soldier can be seen as a nazi. Only members of the party are real nazi's.

No never heard of Klaus Barbie

**Mount Suribachi** · 10-24-2006, 15:54

The US didn't "help" the German scientists "escape". They captured them and took them to America where they could continue their research - for the Americans. The Russians did the same with the ones they captured (compare the Mig-15 with the Ta-183.....) The last months of the war there was a race between the two to scoop up as many German scientists as possible - most of whom were trying to flee west to surrender to the Americans. Werner Von Braun is one of the most famous.

However, to say that just because they were scientists meant that they couldn't be Nazis is a little disingenuous. I'm sure some of them voted for Hitler.

**Stig** · 10-24-2006, 15:58

However, to say that just because they were scientists meant that they couldn't be Nazis is a little disingenuous. I'm sure some of them voted for Hitler.

I never said that ... atleast never meant to said that

Petrus said that everyone who wanted a career in Germany was a nazi, well there are enough German generals that weren't nazi's and even disgusted the nazi's. Most of the Prussian Generals, and some more. Even a Waffen-SS general was against Hitler.