Hermann Goering

**Fragony** · 10-26-2006, 11:42

Linkie,

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP7.HTM

For these returning Germans and those that had found havens in the Eastern territories from the war or had remained, the "greatest forcible dislocation of persons in European history"4 was yet to come. Within a few years of the war's end an incredible 15,000,000 Reichdeutsch and Ethnic German civilians would be thrown out of Poland, the Baltic States, Memel, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Rumania, Yugoslavia, and the Eastern areas of Germany (this is as though the Netherlands, Afghanistan, or Greece were totally emptied of all humans by force). From around 500,000 to 3,700,000 Germans, probably near 1,900,000, would die or be killed in this process (in addition to those that died during the wartime evacuation and flight), most by actions of the Poles, Czechs, and Yugoslavs. Estimates and calculations of the numbers expelled and the death toll are given in Table 7.1.

We all go a bit crazy sometimes

**Stig** · 10-26-2006, 12:13

mmm interesting things to learn, didn't know that, I would have expected them to slowly leave, but not like that.

**Fragony** · 10-26-2006, 12:31

The victor writes the history, it isn't a very popular subject in Poland like Krook is about to demonstrate. Poland was no saint, they don't like this word either 'Jedwabne' , try it

**Kralizec** · 10-26-2006, 19:29

Fragony, to be fair it should be mentioned that Poland was forced to give up a lot of its eastern land.

I knew Poland wasn't nice against it's German minority after the war, but 1,900,000 seems like a lot...

**KrooK** · 10-27-2006, 00:08

Fraggony - I don't know how about you, but I explained you several time that YOU ARE IN MISTAKE, and author of that article is simply lying and he forget about some things, quite important.
I'm repeating last time - so please read it and remember.

Do not mix great evacutation from Prussia and Western Poland into 1944/1945
with Germans obligatory emigration from 1946-1948.
Into 1944.95 it was Hitler's order that Germans must run from EAST PART OF GERMANY (PRUSSIA, POMORZE ZACHODNIE, DOLNY SLASK) AND WESTERN POLAND. Do you know how they appeared into Western Poland. 4 years later they polish civilians were forced to leave their homes there (into cold winter without anything) and German settlers settle there. Similar was into 1942 at Zamojszczyzna (luckily polish partizans stopped Germans).

Beetwen 1946-1948 Poland sent most of remaining Germans from it's territory to Germany. Some of they died, but it simplay can't be even compare with Nazist behavior. There were much less died Germans than Poles and most of them was killed by Russian or Jewish officers from NKWD or "polish" secret police(good example would be Salomon Morel).
Poles did not want kill these Germans, they simply want safe country without that nazist minority (remember that into eastern germany nazist had highest support). Other argument was German semi partizans-semi criminal bands attacking polish civilians (Werwolf).

When most of the Germans became killed? Into 1944/45, when they meet Red Army. Do not mix Polish Army with Red Army. Red Army soldiers liked killing German civilians, but I'm not suprised. Before reached Germany they marched by Ukraine, Russia and Belarus, saw burning villages and some concentration camps. Polish soldiers were not killing civilians, despite they had much reasons like Stutthoff, Treblinka, Auschwitz, Majdanek, Rogoznica.

Author of that one big liar which you mentioned earlier claims that died from 500.000 to 3.700.000 Germans - looks like he is real idiot! There were absolutely no 3.700.000 Germans in Poland into 1946 -not more than 2.000.000 - 2.500.000. 1.900.000 might refer to all Germans on the west of Oder into 1941. But remember that "some" of Germans living at Volga or Batlic States were killed by Russians or sent to Gulag.

So I think that we can start our discussion from 500.000 "killed by Poles" according to you source - what happened to them?

Answer is very simple.
1) Many local people living at Pomorze Zachodnie or Gorny Slask were count by Germany as Germans. But by Poland they were being count as Poles and they weren't sent to Germany. So that when Germany started counting "Germans", about 500.000 were not find. They or their ancestors are living into their homes.
2) Your author tell that on the east of Oder there were no German left.
It's a joke because there is 300.000 German minority into Dolny Slask (Lower Silesia) - and into late 60-ties much more than 100.000 left Poland and went to Germany.
If you connect points 1 and 2 - you will find what happened with your 500.000.

I'm not telling that no Germans were killed. Some of them were. But Poland is hunting their murderers. Sadly we can't do it - we have unexpected problem:)
Some of them (really big part) are Jews (Salomon Morel), and Israel don't want send them here:) I don't think you expect us invading Israel:)
Some of them are living into USA or Britain (like Helena Wolińska - murderer of heroes).

Half of Poland used to be Germany - you mean half of Poland which Germany conquered into 1772 or 1793. Germany had stolen our territories and into 1945thief became punished.

Germans from Balkans, Baltic states or Russia - not polish job.

Jedwabne is city on Podlasie province. Poles murdered there about 200-400 Jewish citizens. I don't remember well when but I think it was into 1941 or 1942. It was crime against humanity and these people should be punished. I know that there is investigation into polish prosecutor's office to find who exactly killed these Jews ( I mean which persons). That city is example what racism can do even with small community. I'm personally very sad about Jedwabne, but it was one of the few exeptions. I was living into place when no one supported Germans and everyone supported Country Army.

In the end please remember
1)Western Poland is Poland ,was Poland and will be Poland.
2)Forcing Germans to leave Poland was rather act or mercy than crime - Russians would rather kill them.
3)Jedwabne was crime commited by Poles
4)Comparing with Holand. Half of Holland used to be Spain - should it be Spain again? Spain has exactly the same rights like Germany to western Poland.

It's my last statement towards this issue - I don't think you agree with me but sadly German propaganda during last 50years washed Europeans minds very well.

**Stig** · 10-27-2006, 00:56

Tarrak, do we have a rule on nationalists?
People should discuss issues and agree to things. Not say it's all lies, if you want to do that become a politician.
Saying an entire article is a lie.
Coming with that they conquered something 200 years before, yeah sure. Germany didn't excist then.

4)Comparing with Holand. Half of Holland used to be Spain - should it be Spain again? Spain has exactly the same rights like Germany to western Poland.

That was 400-500 years ago, get alive m8. This really isn't healthy

**Subedei** · 10-27-2006, 09:32

Originally Posted by KrooK

It's my last statement towards this issue - I don't think you agree with me but sadly German propaganda during last 50years washed Europeans minds very well.

Oh, when it comes to propaganda statements I know somebody we can rely on for sure.....Terms like "Idiot", statements like "Even now Germans are trying to attack Poland. "....and the like....Man, come down to planet earth...we got the European Union, our two countries get along fine & every Polish person I know says so.