What's Your Gender Expression?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Or, how a 70 year old man got into the woman's restroom on the NYC subway by wearing woman's clothes:
http://www.nydailynews.com/10-24-200...p-390955c.html

Girls' room his, too

Transgender men free to use ALL of MTA's loos

BY PETE DONOHUE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

The line for the girls' room just got longer.

Men who live as women can now legally use women's rest rooms in New York's transit system under an unprecedented deal revealed yesterday.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority agreed to allow riders to use MTA rest rooms "consistent with their gender expression," the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund announced yesterday.

The group filed a complaint against the MTA on behalf of a 70-year-old telephone repair technician who was arrested for using the women's room at Grand Central Terminal.

The technician, who is assigned to the terminal by Verizon, was born Henry McGuinness but now goes by Helena Stone.

"I'm a 24-hour woman," Stone declared proudly. "I just feel like a woman and I like to wear women's clothes."

The MTA would not comment on the settlement but Stone's lawyer said it also includes mandatory transgender sensitivity training for MTA employees and a $2,000 payment to the technician for legal fees.

Michael Sullivan, Stone's lawyer, called the settlement of the complaint with the Human Rights Commission a "milestone" toward recognition of the city law that prohibits discrimination against transgender men and women.

But some Metro-North riders at Grand Central yesterday were stunned by the ruling.

"I would not like that," said Gloria David, a retiree from Connecticut. "I have nothing against gay men or drag queens, but they can use the men's room. I just don't want to go to the bathroom next to a man."

One rider feared predators might dress as women and lurk in the women's room.

But Rena Gantz, 23, a college student, shrugged off the settlement.

"It doesn't bother me because it is a reality," she said. "If they believe they are women, they should be treated as one."

I love the clueless college student. 'It is a reality'. One of many, I suppose.

Oh, and how long before creeps start going in the women's restroom and saying their 'gender expression' is female? What a stupid deal.

Crazed Rabbit

[Husar]

It's good to know, now all we need are animal toilets, because I was born in the wrong body and I should have been a turtle...
Also keep in mind that this opens up stalking on toilets, you just gotta be bold enough to wear female clothes.

[InsaneApache]

but when do the girls get to come into the gents?

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Although the reasoning is a bit kooky, I'm not sure it will be that much of a problem really. It's not like a ladies' room provides too many peeping opportunities-all of the 'action' takes place in cubicles.

[Devastatin Dave]

Isn't "tolerance" so wonderful?
I miss the good old days when FREAKS, yes FREAKS like this use to be in asylums where they should be NOW...

[Don Corleone]

My gender identity requires me to go to Sorority slumber parties. I'm really a 19 year old Kappa pledge trapped in a middle aged man's body. Somebody tell my wife I tried to resist with everything I had...

[Vuk]

but when do the girls get to come into the gents?

I hope soon...them using urinals might be difficult...

[Blodrast]

@Dave, Don: tsk, tsk, tsk, you intolerant evil men!
Admit it, you're just jealous!!

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

but when do the girls get to come into the gents?

I was in a service station this summer, on the august bank holiday weekend, and the queue for the women's toilets was so massive that the ladies were coming into the gents' instead. People didn't seem to be bothered that much by this, which I thought was odd as if I attempted to use the ladies' in most places, I'd be escorted out of the building pretty quickly. Peculiar double standard.

[Kanamori]

"I have nothing against gay men or drag queens, but they can use the men's room. I just don't want to go to the bathroom next to a man."

How does it go... I've got it... "Go find a different bathroom, lady."


It doesn't make sense to care either way.

[Don Corleone]

I was in a service station this summer, on the august bank holiday weekend, and the queue for the women's toilets was so massive that the ladies were coming into the gents' instead. People didn't seem to be bothered that much by this, which I thought was odd as if I attempted to use the ladies' in most places, I'd be escorted out of the building pretty quickly. Peculiar double standard.

This pretty much happens at any coleseum event in the USA (sports, concerts, etc) where they serve beer. Men don't mind at all. I suppose you could theoretically claim the legal right to enter the women's room, but who would want to? Takes 3 times as long.

Ironside, is it Sweden where public restrooms are unisex?

[Vuk]

The home point of gender segregation is (for privacy purposes) to keep people of one gender in a different room than people of the other gender. It makes no sense to let a man go into a woman's bathroom. You might as well not even pretend you are trying for segregation. If I was a woman I would be scared to death if a guy came into the ladies' restroom while I was there. I have several gay friends...aquantences...and I can tell you, they mostly do not like women at all, but have no quams with having sexual intercourse with them. With the right person, that could be rape. I don't want to discriminate, but it is a fact that on average, gay men are a lot more sexually driven that straight men, thereby increasing the chances. Also, a lot of rapes, esp. on underage girls, are done by gay men as a submission act to women whom they dislike. As I said above, I do not want to discriminate, I'm not saying that all gay men are like this, but just as men are more sexually driven than women, and commit more acts of sexual submission tyhan women, so gay men do more than straight men.

[CrossLOPER]

Ground floor.

[Reverend Joe]

I have several gay friends...aquantences...and I can tell you, they mostly do not like women at all, but have no quams with having sexual intercourse with them.

What in the hell kind of gay friends do you have?!

[Samurai Waki]

okay, that means they'll have to supply the mens room with some PVC Tubing and Funnels.

[Prince of the Poodles]

Isn't "tolerance" so wonderful?
I miss the good old days when FREAKS, yes FREAKS like this use to be in asylums where they should be NOW...

I look forward to the future where people like you will be cast aside by the mainstream for the hate-monger you are.

Sexual orientation and gender expression are some of the most instinctual elements of humanity.

Instances like these definitely raise tough questions that an open, tolerant society must ponder, but tormenting these poor people is the lowest form of cowardly "if they aint like us i dont like 'em" neanderthal-like idiocy.

I dont know which restroom transvestites should use, but I do know they are people just like everyone else. Their lives are already hard enough without the cruel mocking of the close minded.

[Prince of the Poodles]

I have several gay friends...aquantences...and I can tell you, they mostly do not like women at all, but have no quams with having sexual intercourse with them.

That is so messed up. In fact, its the direct opposite.

Most gay guys get along better with women, but have not interest in laying them.

I don't want to discriminate, but it is a fact that on average, gay men are a lot more sexually driven that straight men, thereby increasing the chances.

Proof?

I turn down meaningless sex far more than my straight friends. There will always be whores - straight or gay.

Also, a lot of rapes, esp. on underage girls, are done by gay men as a submission act to women whom they dislike.

What the hell?

Maybe you dont understand homosexuality. If all these gay guys were having sex with girls, what makes them gay?

but just as men are more sexually driven than women, and commit more acts of sexual submission tyhan women, so gay men do more than straight men.

Show me statistics? Show me proof...

[Crazed Rabbit]

It seems a lot of people here don't seem to get how uncomfortable it might be for women to have men coming and going in their restroom.

Sexual orientation and gender expression are some of the most instinctual elements of humanity.

And these people have messed up instincts. Not that this has anything to do with the rightness of it.

Instances like these definitely raise tough questions that an open, tolerant society must ponder

Actually, there's hardly need for pondering. Men go into the men's restroom, whether their dressed as freaks or not, and women go into the women's restroom. We don't have to be tolerant of people who try and force their lifestyle on the public. Fine, be a freak and think you're a woman. But don't think that makes you one legally. Allowing a person's feelings to determine how the law applies to them is astoundingly foolish.

It also appears some are much to willing to ignore the very real potential for creeps and sexual predators to use this to their advantage.

Crazed Rabbit

[Csargo]

Weird

[Devastatin Dave]

I look forward to the future where people like you will be cast aside by the mainstream for the hate-monger you are.

Sexual orientation and gender expression are some of the most instinctual elements of humanity.

Instances like these definitely raise tough questions that an open, tolerant society must ponder, but tormenting these poor people is the lowest form of cowardly "if they aint like us i dont like 'em" neanderthal-like idiocy.

I dont know which restroom transvestites should use, but I do know they are people just like everyone else. Their lives are already hard enough without the cruel mocking of the close minded.

Sorry to offend you there Princess of Poodles, maybe you should be more tolerant of neanderthals, haven't you seen the Geico comercials?
Look, if you look down and see a penis, that means you go into a man's restroom because you have a PENIS and not a VAGINA. Now if you look down and you see a vagina, that means you go into a women's restroom. If you can't figure that out, then you are either..
A: Stupid
or
B: A FREAK that should be using restrooms in a asylum where you can get the mental help you need.

[yesdachi]

How did they catch the guy if he was a 24 hour woman dressing and feeling like a woman? I would guess if he acted like a woman and looked like a woman he shouldn’t have had any issues. Who figured it out and busted this guy I’m wondering.

My opinion, There is a boys and a girls bathroom and you should use the one you are properly “equipped” to use or be discrete and polite and no one will ever know.

Some 6’ 5” hairy fat dude with a giant adams apple should not be wearing a dress trying to use the woman’s bathroom, that guy is a freak and I don’t care how many times he says he is a woman trapped in a mans body, if he has a unit and cant pass as a woman he needs to be using the guys bathroom.

[Prince of the Poodles]

And these people have messed up instincts. Not that this has anything to do with the rightness of it.

According to who? The majority? I really dont put much faith in what the majority deems correct or incorrect behavior. What is normal and what is freakish is subject to change. Cultural norms should never be used to cruelly demean those who dont fit into a particular box.

Actually, there's hardly need for pondering. Men go into the men's restroom, whether their dressed as freaks or not, and women go into the women's restroom. We don't have to be tolerant of people who try and force their lifestyle on the public..

That makes sense to me. Legal groups such as have been described in the article that pressure institutions for change often have little regard for the group they are supposedly "representing". Money, power, and many other factors are far more prominent in their minds.

Fine, be a freak and think you're a woman. But don't think that makes you one legally. Allowing a person's feelings to determine how the law applies to them is astoundingly foolish.

What doesnt make sense to me is demeaning these people by calling them immature names that are reminiscent of the school yard. The vast majority of these people dont choose to feel the way they wish, just as people dont choose their race or their eye color.

Its like if you dont remember to label them, they'll take over or something.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I like how people assume trangender people are also rapists lol. If someone wants to rape someone they aren't going to care if the rules say they aren't allowed in the woman's bathroom.

Crazed makes the point that women will feel uncomfortable. That's why it's important for this to be allowed. Gay people hugging in public makes a lot of people uncomfortable as well. If they see it often enough society will eventually accept it and we have less homophobia. It's the only way to change things.

[Prince of the Poodles]

Look, if you look down and see a penis, that means you go into a man's restroom because you have a PENIS and not a VAGINA. Now if you look down and you see a vagina, that means you go into a women's restroom. If you can't figure that out, then you are either..

I agree devestatin d******. (Woohoo, I altered your name and made a funny! ) It makes perfect sense to me and it should to the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund.

What I dont agree with is demeaning transsexuals for something they cannot change.

Sure, they can wear guys clothes and act(as best they can) like a guy, but that doesnt change the fact that deep down that isnt who they are.

I prefer living in a world where people who are different dont have to live their lives hiding who they truly are. Its not against the law and its not hurting anyone.

Whether you want to call them different or mentally ill, that doesnt change the fact that they are not deserving of scorn from someone such as yourself.

It is very obvious if you do a little research of different cultures and different parts of history that the current social norms are not the same as those 100 years ago and certainly wont be those of 100 years in tew future.

So maybe spend a little less time calling others names, and a little more time improving yourself... cause we all know that human imperfection is a big part of the christian mantra.. no? 8)

[Kanamori]

FREAK

CRAZY PEOPLE

This is kinda fun, I understand now.

ASYLUM THEM!

RIGHT NOW!

...

[Devastatin Dave]

According to who? The majority?

Ding, ding, ding!!! You got it!!!

[Devastatin Dave]

I agree devestatin dumbass. (Woohoo, I altered your name and made a funny! ) It makes perfect sense to me and it should to the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund.

What I dont agree with is demeaning transsexuals for something they cannot change.

Sure, they can wear guys clothes and act(as best they can) like a guy, but that doesnt change the fact that deep down that isnt who they are.

I prefer living in a world where people who are different dont have to live their lives hiding who they truly are. Its not against the law and its not hurting anyone.

Whether you want to call them different or mentally ill, that doesnt change the fact that they are not deserving of scorn from someone such as yourself.

It is very obvious if you do a little research of different cultures and different parts of history that the current social norms are not the same as those 100 years ago and certainly wont be those of 100 years in tew future.

So maybe spend a little less time calling others names, and a little more time improving yourself... cause we all know that human imperfection is a big part of the christian mantra.. no? 8)

Yawn... So you're saying that my daughter or wife should just "turn the other cheek" when some pervert comes into the women's bathroom? Nope, even if it means I've offended the freak and you, Princess.

[DemonArchangel]

This....

This is just completely and utterly ridiculous. I mean..... why the **** are we going completely ape**** over this **** when there are so many other far more important issues to address?

Seriously, I see people using the incorrect bathroom all the time, hell, sometimes I use the incorrect bathroom if i need to. My bladder doesn't give a **** about the sign on the door. I see girls in the guys room over here all the time, ****, I regularly see naked chicks in the shower in my dorms here. Do I feel uncomfortable? No, not at all. Do the guys act like perverts and harass these girls? No, no they don't. Same goes with guys in the girls room (especially the morning after you just scored with 2-3 different chicks).

So yea, it doesn't really matter.

And Prince, welcome to the Backroom. It's best not to take any of us here too seriously, otherwise you might get a ******* stroke.

[Kanamori]

According to who? The majority?

Ding, ding, ding!!! You got it!!!

Don't you think that's a bit ironic given that the city passed the law?

[Devastatin Dave]

Don't you think that's a bit ironic given that the city passed the law?

Was it voted on?