I want your opinion

[Djurre]

I say: All these mods will never be completed fast enough, nor will they ever reach a very large audience, because the mod community is to devided, and working on to many mods.

what do you think?

[Lovejoy]

I think it's great that there is many diffrent mods out there. Ofc its a shame many of them dont get the credit they deserv. But on the other hand, even if Jesus himself recommended and loved EB, it wouldn't be enough credit. :)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I say: Well, since EB was the first mod for RTW, and started before the game itself was released, you can get mad at all the others ones instead. EB has a team that has changed over time but still has the directors it had two years ago and it's also the most ambitious and expansive mod for RTW out there.

[Djurre]

then why did RTW come to be. i mean, they aim for the same think, only with excessive sieging, and ugly units.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

because CA didn't have access or didn't want to/couldn't afford to pay for infomation that some EB historians had, CA probably thought that historical accuracy could have lowered the gameplay experience (something that many people of the community also believe) and also CA actually wanted to make money and they percieved that their product, RTW, was the best way to do this
to be honest, RTW is a great game even with its flaws, it has kept me entertained for hours upon hours and mods like EB wouldn't be possible without the origional game or the producer's views on allowing community modding and have kept the gaming time increasing
this has been argued over and over again; why didn't CA make RTW like 'mod X' but in truth 'mod X' only came to be because of RTW

GMM

[Grimmy]

then why did RTW come to be. i mean, they aim for the same think, only with excessive sieging, and ugly units.

RTW is the game. It was created and produced by men and women that do such things for a living. This is how they make the money to pay their bills, send their kids to college and replace their personally own vehicles and such. It's called a job. It is a rather universal concept.

Without the RTW there is nothing to mod therefore no EB, RTR, or any other mod to RTW.

The good folk behind EB and all other mods are not getting paid. They are players that decided that they would like to see the game in a different style, so they devote time and energy to making the changes they feel appropriate for their own desires.

They do it for free, they do it the way they want it done, for the reasons that matter to them. It's called being creative. That is also a rather universal concept.

Then, at no charge or cost to the rest of us, they make it available. That's called sharing and being really nice.

Then all too often, those that did all the work and devoted all that time get cussed at, questioned on their choices, or argued with over concepts by folk that put zero effort into making the changes. It's called being an ass. That is also a rather universal concept, unfortunately.

I hope that helped address your apparent confusion.

[Krusader]

because CA didn't have access or didn't want to/couldn't afford to pay for infomation that some EB historians had, CA probably thought that historical accuracy could have lowered the gameplay experience (something that many people of the community also believe) and also CA actually wanted to make money and they percieved that their product, RTW, was the best way to do this
to be honest, RTW is a great game even with its flaws, it has kept me entertained for hours upon hours and mods like EB wouldn't be possible without the origional game or the producer's views on allowing community modding and have kept the gaming time increasing
this has been argued over and over again; why didn't CA make RTW like 'mod X' but in truth 'mod X' only came to be because of RTW

GMM

Stop spewing your CA-fanboi propaganda BS here!!!



Joking.

No, what GMM says is true. I have had many hours of enjoyment playing RTW myself too, and well, without RTW no mods
Although I will say, after playing some mods I really have a hard time going back to vanilla. But everyone have different tastes. Its impossible making a game (or mod) that everyone is 100% satisifed with.
Plus, its always the games you love, you know most flaws about, at least for me.

[Kull]

I think he meant RTR, not RTW. The fact is that like communism, which sounds great in theory but sucks in practice, the concept of the Uber-Mod which gathers all resources in one place and drives through to completion in record time - well, it will never happen.

There are too many personalities, too many conflicting goals and objectives, too many conflicting work styles. And where you have conflict AND the labor must be provided free of charge....well, then you have fragmentation. And it's not a bad thing, really. Just the way things are.

[Djurre]

I think he meant RTR, not RTW. The fact is that like communism, which sounds great in theory but sucks in practice, the concept of the Uber-Mod which gathers all resources in one place and drives through to completion in record time - well, it will never happen.

There are too many personalities, too many conflicting goals and objectives, too many conflicting work styles. And where you have conflict AND the labor must be provided free of charge....well, then you have fragmentation. And it's not a bad thing, really. Just the way things are.

woops, i ment RTR sorry

[NeoSpartan]

I don't know about you fellas. But I think EB breaks the mith that fun games can't be historically accurate or realistic.

The way I see it, when developers say that historically accurate games are boring they are just making an excuse for themselves.
The real thing is that historically accurate games are a LOT HARDER to make, not only is a lot of time have to be devoted to gathering info, but also how to implement that info in a way that reflects reality is also a major pain. So... Developers use the latter excuse to make a "good-enough" game. BUT the day a bunch of guys (and gals?) *hint EB team hint* put out a game that is historically accurate after putting in two times the endless hours, all other games will be in the Eating Dirt!

[khelvan]

I and Gaius Julius created RTR because we wanted to see a more realistic and historically accurate RTW campaign. Neither of us had heard of EB, as EB was basically restricted to totalwar.org as their community mod and it wasn't being talked about at all over on TWC (which is a shame).

To make a long story short, I joined the established EB mod team because I had no personal ambition to create my own, and GJ was a megalomaniac who wanted lots of glory for himself and refused to do so, who refused to even share authority with the co-founder of RTR (me). So RTR was borne. The leadership has gone through many iterations since then, and has very different goals than GJ did, so this is not a comment in any way on the RTR team today, with whom we have a good working relationship.

[fallen851]

GJ was a megalomaniac

You really don't like mincing words.

[Olaf The Great]

I don't know about you fellas. But I think EB breaks the mith that fun games can't be historically accurate or realistic.

Although a historically accurate FPS wouldn't work..
B.J Blatzkowitz, on the first level of Return to Castle wolfenstein, approaches a guard with a MP40, he starts shooting, but is shot in the leg and can't move, therefore killed.

Lol.

[NeoSpartan]

Although a historically accurate FPS wouldn't work..
B.J Blatzkowitz, on the first level of Return to Castle wolfenstein, approaches a guard with a MP40, he starts shooting, but is shot in the leg and can't move, therefore killed.

Lol.

A few of the Tom Clansys FPS series are preatty realistic. If u get shot in the head ur dead. If in the body with a small caliber weapon u'll be fine, but u'll be dead with a higher caliber. If ur "wounded" (shot in the leg, arm, whatever) ur guy will have a hard time walking (yet he won't bleed to death). I gotta say a lot of FPS games are doing more to stick to Reality than RTS games.

[LorDBulA]

Although a historically accurate FPS wouldn't work..

Ofcourse it would work. You just have break with schemes.
You cant expect Rambo style realistic FPS because rambo style will get you killed in few seconds in reality.
But if you where attacking this castle with whole platoon of soldiers then it would be a lot of fun.
For FPS game with good reality elements check out RedOrchestra (WWII).

[Djurre]

I and Gaius Julius created RTR because we wanted to see a more realistic and historically accurate RTW campaign. Neither of us had heard of EB, as EB was basically restricted to totalwar.org as their community mod and it wasn't being talked about at all over on TWC (which is a shame).

To make a long story short, I joined the established EB mod team because I had no personal ambition to create my own, and GJ was a megalomaniac who wanted lots of glory for himself and refused to do so, who refused to even share authority with the co-founder of RTR (me). So RTR was borne. The leadership has gone through many iterations since then, and has very different goals than GJ did, so this is not a comment in any way on the RTR team today, with whom we have a good working relationship.

Was GJ that guy that stole from the donations?

I'm wondering, what are the differences between the goals set by RTR, and EB? Why dont the teams merge.

[MSB]

Was GJ that guy that stole from the donations?

I'm wondering, what are the differences between the goals set by RTR, and EB? Why dont the teams merge.

Because RTR and EB are completely different. EB aims for ultimate historical perfection (i.e. historical cartography, units, skins, politics) while RTR aims for low level historical accuracy and does not aim for historical perfection like EB (e.g. they still have unified Gaul, Germania e.c.t.).

RTR and EB are totaly different mods. They don't merge because their aims and goals are different.

[Djurre]

I agree. I did not enjoy playing RTR as much as i enjoy playing EB. Surely these barbarians must come to their senses ;).

Seriously though, i just dont understand that so much effort is being into two mods that claim to be having the same goals. its a shame.

[MSB]

Seriously though, i just dont understand that so much effort is being into two mods that claim to be having the same goals. its a shame.

I think that it is all about individuality. If EB and RTR were to merge to create EBRTR then each side may not get to implement their ideas as fully as they would be able to if they were not merged.

[Tellos Athenaios]

As far as I know, EB and RTR have a pretty different way of achieving their main goal, that of incorporating more realism into the game.

But besides their common main aim, both mods have included very different ideas into their builds. An example of this is the EB government system, that, to my knowledge, is an unique feature and has an enormous, if not decisive, effect on the gameplay aspect. I don't think that RTR with the government system would be quite RTR, and neither would EB without be quite EB.

[Ludens]

Was GJ that guy that stole from the donations?

I'm wondering, what are the differences between the goals set by RTR, and EB? Why dont the teams merge.

No, that was Tyr, and I don't think that it was ever proven that he actually stole it (although his behaviour at that time certainly didn't speak in his favour).

I think the difference between the teams is more of philosophy than actual goals. Both aim for historically acurate mods, but R:TR is more willing to compromize accuracy for the sake of gameplay, which makes sense since they don't have anything to compare to EB's research base. Also, the R:TR team has been improving R:TW in small steps, whereas EB tries to get their releases as complete as they can before making them available to the public.

I for one think it a good thing that there are two teams, so we can enjoy the advantages of both philosophies. Say what you like about R:TR, but their continual releases kept the interest in R:TW modding alive.

[BozosLiveHere]

Although a historically accurate FPS wouldn't work..

Two words for you: Operation Flashpoint.

[khelvan]

Both aim for historically acurate mods, but R:TR is more willing to compromize accuracy for the sake of gameplay, which makes sense since they don't have anything to compare to EB's research base.

I completely disagree - we have not compromised gameplay, ever. Gameplay and accuracy are two different things. Having had discussions with RTR I know they feel the same way. We both make choices that we feel make for good gameplay, and perhaps they are different choices, but neither of us try to compromise historicaly accuracy and gameplay. They are different axes on the same graph.

[edyzmedieval]

We are the EB Mythbusters.

[Reenk Roink]

You really don't like mincing words.

How ironic...

[The_Mark]

Ofcourse it would work. You just have break with schemes.
You cant expect Rambo style realistic FPS because rambo style will get you killed in few seconds in reality.
But if you where attacking this castle with whole platoon of soldiers then it would be a lot of fun.
For FPS game with good reality elements check out RedOrchestra (WWII).

Or Operation Flashpoint, whose sequel, Armed Assault is, btw, less than two weeks from publishing.

[the_handsome_viking]

I say: All these mods will never be completed fast enough, nor will they ever reach a very large audience, because the mod community is to devided, and working on to many mods.

what do you think?

Just be happy that you know of EB then.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

RTW is the game. It was created and produced by men and women that do such things for a living. This is how they make the money to pay their bills, send their kids to college and replace their personally own vehicles and such. It's called a job. It is a rather universal concept.

Without the RTW there is nothing to mod therefore no EB, RTR, or any other mod to RTW.

The good folk behind EB and all other mods are not getting paid. They are players that decided that they would like to see the game in a different style, so they devote time and energy to making the changes they feel appropriate for their own desires.

They do it for free, they do it the way they want it done, for the reasons that matter to them. It's called being creative. That is also a rather universal concept.

Then, at no charge or cost to the rest of us, they make it available. That's called sharing and being really nice.

Then all too often, those that did all the work and devoted all that time get cussed at, questioned on their choices, or argued with over concepts by folk that put zero effort into making the changes. It's called being an ass. That is also a rather universal concept, unfortunately.

I hope that helped address your apparent confusion.

ROTFL...

[Kralizec]

I and Gaius Julius created RTR because we wanted to see a more realistic and historically accurate RTW campaign. Neither of us had heard of EB, as EB was basically restricted to totalwar.org as their community mod and it wasn't being talked about at all over on TWC (which is a shame).

Wow, never knew that

the RTR team today, with whom we have a good working relationship.

(incest!)

[Subedei]

I think it is a good idea to let the teams set different goals. Every mod has it´s pros & cons. These days [while waitin´ and voting for 0.8 release] I play RTR Platinum. I am trying to build up a Sarmate Empire, which is a lot of fun[I have the Romans standarte stolen from them and they hunt after it all the time....which is very amusing].

So 2 sum things up: I think the ones that get along best with each other & have the same goals should be in a team. This provides less stress 4 them & more variety 4 us. And if they can help each other out...GREAT!

And we have fantastic upcoming Gold versions of Vlad Mod , Blue Lotus & many more....sounds like a hell of a deal to me....