I want your opinion

[Kull]

I think he meant RTR, not RTW. The fact is that like communism, which sounds great in theory but sucks in practice, the concept of the Uber-Mod which gathers all resources in one place and drives through to completion in record time - well, it will never happen.

There are too many personalities, too many conflicting goals and objectives, too many conflicting work styles. And where you have conflict AND the labor must be provided free of charge....well, then you have fragmentation. And it's not a bad thing, really. Just the way things are.

[Djurre]

I think he meant RTR, not RTW. The fact is that like communism, which sounds great in theory but sucks in practice, the concept of the Uber-Mod which gathers all resources in one place and drives through to completion in record time - well, it will never happen.

There are too many personalities, too many conflicting goals and objectives, too many conflicting work styles. And where you have conflict AND the labor must be provided free of charge....well, then you have fragmentation. And it's not a bad thing, really. Just the way things are.

woops, i ment RTR sorry

[NeoSpartan]

I don't know about you fellas. But I think EB breaks the mith that fun games can't be historically accurate or realistic.

The way I see it, when developers say that historically accurate games are boring they are just making an excuse for themselves.
The real thing is that historically accurate games are a LOT HARDER to make, not only is a lot of time have to be devoted to gathering info, but also how to implement that info in a way that reflects reality is also a major pain. So... Developers use the latter excuse to make a "good-enough" game. BUT the day a bunch of guys (and gals?) *hint EB team hint* put out a game that is historically accurate after putting in two times the endless hours, all other games will be in the Eating Dirt!

[khelvan]

I and Gaius Julius created RTR because we wanted to see a more realistic and historically accurate RTW campaign. Neither of us had heard of EB, as EB was basically restricted to totalwar.org as their community mod and it wasn't being talked about at all over on TWC (which is a shame).

To make a long story short, I joined the established EB mod team because I had no personal ambition to create my own, and GJ was a megalomaniac who wanted lots of glory for himself and refused to do so, who refused to even share authority with the co-founder of RTR (me). So RTR was borne. The leadership has gone through many iterations since then, and has very different goals than GJ did, so this is not a comment in any way on the RTR team today, with whom we have a good working relationship.

[fallen851]

GJ was a megalomaniac

You really don't like mincing words.

[Reenk Roink]

You really don't like mincing words.

How ironic...

[Djurre]

I and Gaius Julius created RTR because we wanted to see a more realistic and historically accurate RTW campaign. Neither of us had heard of EB, as EB was basically restricted to totalwar.org as their community mod and it wasn't being talked about at all over on TWC (which is a shame).

To make a long story short, I joined the established EB mod team because I had no personal ambition to create my own, and GJ was a megalomaniac who wanted lots of glory for himself and refused to do so, who refused to even share authority with the co-founder of RTR (me). So RTR was borne. The leadership has gone through many iterations since then, and has very different goals than GJ did, so this is not a comment in any way on the RTR team today, with whom we have a good working relationship.

Was GJ that guy that stole from the donations?

I'm wondering, what are the differences between the goals set by RTR, and EB? Why dont the teams merge.

[MSB]

Was GJ that guy that stole from the donations?

I'm wondering, what are the differences between the goals set by RTR, and EB? Why dont the teams merge.

Because RTR and EB are completely different. EB aims for ultimate historical perfection (i.e. historical cartography, units, skins, politics) while RTR aims for low level historical accuracy and does not aim for historical perfection like EB (e.g. they still have unified Gaul, Germania e.c.t.).

RTR and EB are totaly different mods. They don't merge because their aims and goals are different.

[Djurre]

I agree. I did not enjoy playing RTR as much as i enjoy playing EB. Surely these barbarians must come to their senses ;).

Seriously though, i just dont understand that so much effort is being into two mods that claim to be having the same goals. its a shame.

[Ludens]

Was GJ that guy that stole from the donations?

I'm wondering, what are the differences between the goals set by RTR, and EB? Why dont the teams merge.

No, that was Tyr, and I don't think that it was ever proven that he actually stole it (although his behaviour at that time certainly didn't speak in his favour).

I think the difference between the teams is more of philosophy than actual goals. Both aim for historically acurate mods, but R:TR is more willing to compromize accuracy for the sake of gameplay, which makes sense since they don't have anything to compare to EB's research base. Also, the R:TR team has been improving R:TW in small steps, whereas EB tries to get their releases as complete as they can before making them available to the public.

I for one think it a good thing that there are two teams, so we can enjoy the advantages of both philosophies. Say what you like about R:TR, but their continual releases kept the interest in R:TW modding alive.

[khelvan]

Both aim for historically acurate mods, but R:TR is more willing to compromize accuracy for the sake of gameplay, which makes sense since they don't have anything to compare to EB's research base.

I completely disagree - we have not compromised gameplay, ever. Gameplay and accuracy are two different things. Having had discussions with RTR I know they feel the same way. We both make choices that we feel make for good gameplay, and perhaps they are different choices, but neither of us try to compromise historicaly accuracy and gameplay. They are different axes on the same graph.

[Kralizec]

I and Gaius Julius created RTR because we wanted to see a more realistic and historically accurate RTW campaign. Neither of us had heard of EB, as EB was basically restricted to totalwar.org as their community mod and it wasn't being talked about at all over on TWC (which is a shame).

Wow, never knew that

the RTR team today, with whom we have a good working relationship.

(incest!)

[Subedei]

I think it is a good idea to let the teams set different goals. Every mod has it´s pros & cons. These days [while waitin´ and voting for 0.8 release] I play RTR Platinum. I am trying to build up a Sarmate Empire, which is a lot of fun[I have the Romans standarte stolen from them and they hunt after it all the time....which is very amusing].

So 2 sum things up: I think the ones that get along best with each other & have the same goals should be in a team. This provides less stress 4 them & more variety 4 us. And if they can help each other out...GREAT!

And we have fantastic upcoming Gold versions of Vlad Mod , Blue Lotus & many more....sounds like a hell of a deal to me....

[Proper Gander]

I think it is a good idea to let the teams set different goals. Every mod has it´s pros & cons.

EB HAS no cons!!

[Olaf The Great]

I don't know about you fellas. But I think EB breaks the mith that fun games can't be historically accurate or realistic.

Although a historically accurate FPS wouldn't work..
B.J Blatzkowitz, on the first level of Return to Castle wolfenstein, approaches a guard with a MP40, he starts shooting, but is shot in the leg and can't move, therefore killed.

Lol.

[NeoSpartan]

Although a historically accurate FPS wouldn't work..
B.J Blatzkowitz, on the first level of Return to Castle wolfenstein, approaches a guard with a MP40, he starts shooting, but is shot in the leg and can't move, therefore killed.

Lol.

A few of the Tom Clansys FPS series are preatty realistic. If u get shot in the head ur dead. If in the body with a small caliber weapon u'll be fine, but u'll be dead with a higher caliber. If ur "wounded" (shot in the leg, arm, whatever) ur guy will have a hard time walking (yet he won't bleed to death). I gotta say a lot of FPS games are doing more to stick to Reality than RTS games.

[LorDBulA]

Although a historically accurate FPS wouldn't work..

Ofcourse it would work. You just have break with schemes.
You cant expect Rambo style realistic FPS because rambo style will get you killed in few seconds in reality.
But if you where attacking this castle with whole platoon of soldiers then it would be a lot of fun.
For FPS game with good reality elements check out RedOrchestra (WWII).

[The_Mark]

Ofcourse it would work. You just have break with schemes.
You cant expect Rambo style realistic FPS because rambo style will get you killed in few seconds in reality.
But if you where attacking this castle with whole platoon of soldiers then it would be a lot of fun.
For FPS game with good reality elements check out RedOrchestra (WWII).

Or Operation Flashpoint, whose sequel, Armed Assault is, btw, less than two weeks from publishing.

[BozosLiveHere]

Although a historically accurate FPS wouldn't work..

Two words for you: Operation Flashpoint.