Which faction has the worst starting position?

[BaldwinIV]

How did you think, which faction is toughest to play (according to its starting position)?
IMO this is Portugal.

[parcelt]

I agree Portugal is on nr. 1. Those two separated provinces.... they 'd better start of with some superior military force so they can break through either spanish or moor territory and unite their lands.

Nr. 2 I guess is Scotland. After that it becomes blurred, but I think the Milanese may be in for a rough ride as well.

Egypt I think will be most boring (to start with)... sit there, take a zillion rebel provinces and build them up.... yawn.

[ProudNerd]

France surrounded by nations that hate them and my first target for me when i play england in my first campaign! :D

[Comrade Alexeo]

I said Scotland. They're stuck on a wee little island with only one city and facing the powerful English...

Portugal is a close second. It comes in at #2 because I think its possible that the Spanish will be more concerned with the Moors at first, allowing the Portuguese to cautiously build up...

[Faenaris]

While portugal really is in a dire position, I still voted HRE. They have a larger empire, thus a larger border and a lot of other nations in the vicinity. Granted, there are some rebel provinces who figure as some kind of buffer, but still. :)

[TheImp]

Portugal, definitely.

[TB666]

I say Byzantines.
I remember from MTW1 that those guys were difficult to play because of the location.
Not to mention the fact that you always get crusader armies in your lands stealing your troops.
Then the golden horde comes and it gets even worse.

Turks also bad

[satchef1]

Its got to be the Portugese, their only possibility of survival is if the Castile-Leonese and Moors keep each other too busy for them to notice Portugal. The Scots have it pretty bad too but at least they have easily defendable terrain and if they strike when Englands back is turned the British Isles are theirs, and it will take some fighting to get them out of their again!

I say Byzantines.
I remember from MTW1 that those guys were difficult to play because of the location.
Not to mention the fact that you always get crusader armies in your lands stealing your troops.
Then the golden horde comes and it gets even worse.

Turks also bad

The Byz have an easy starting position in MTW1, Turk-stopping bottle-neck at constantinople, rich provences, easy expansion into the rebel steppe provences via the black sea. Its the easiest starting position in the game

[Aracnid]

Remember its starting position, by the time you have crusaderes and Mongol you will have built up quite a lot. I say Portugal because you can't expand far without running into other people, followed by Scotland because you share an island with the English and apart from the one province to your North and mayby Nothumberland you have to go to war with England to expand.

[ProudNerd]

While portugal really is in a dire position, I still voted HRE. They have a larger empire, thus a larger border and a lot of other nations in the vicinity. Granted, there are some rebel provinces who figure as some kind of buffer, but still. :)

im not sure of the exact positions. Is there a map where i can see where each faction starts?

[parcelt]

ProudNerd, check out:

https://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?...tw2map2qh7.jpg

[Darth Nihilus]

While Portugal's starting position is not easy, I think the most difficult starting spot is the HRE by far. Portugal does have a somewhat difficult starting spot, but I wouldn't even put it in the top 5 hardest. The HRE has many potential enemies that it has to deal with at once. Dealing with 1 or 2 enemies is not nearly as difficult as fighting 6 at one time.

Plus, if you are winning with Portugal, you have natural borders that you can expand to in the Iberian peninsula. If you are winning with the HRE, you have no natural borders. Not to mention, the Iberian peninsula is a lot more wealthy that the land in central Europe. I am baffled that Portugal has even been veoted for.

[Azog 150]

I voted France because its surrounded by 3 potentual super powers who arnt exactly there good friends.

[Zenicetus]

Egypt I think will be most boring (to start with)... sit there, take a zillion rebel provinces and build them up.... yawn.

I agree about the start for Egypt, but the mid-game could get interesting. Build up a big navy, then launch an invasion across the Med, due north. And in the end game, it would be fun to see Egypt take on the Aztecs... especially if Egypt doesn't get much in the way of late-game firearms tech. Although, that's probably one of the last factions I'd play. Too many others are more interesting to start with.

P.S. Portugal definitely looks the hardest, unless the deck has been stacked with superior starting units, or some economic bonus (marine trade, maybe?).

[Burakius]

Hungary and Portugal. Hungary is surrounded by 2 countries. And Portugal is obvious ( and historically ridiculous)

[parcelt]

And in the end game, it would be fun to see Egypt take on the Aztecs...

There's an interesting scenario!

To Darth Nihilus: I think your observations are correct, however we were discussing starting positions. The HRE starts with a good set of territories and plenty of rebel provinces nearby. There's no worry about being taken out early. Portugal, on the other hand, seems to have very little room for mistakes early on. Sure, if it manages to survive for a while it may eventually find itselve in a good position, but that seems a big 'if' considering the intial setup.

[Amon_Zeth]

Poor ol' Portugal looks like it's pretty bad off, what with being surrounded and all. France is second, being hemmed in by some very hostile people.

[ProudNerd]

ProudNerd, check out:

https://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?...tw2map2qh7.jpg

wow thanks thats a really great map its very clear. Looks like the ports do in fact have an awful start the hre has Constantinople so it should have a huge eco. There sure are loads of rebel provinces.

[macke]

I guess I would have to agree on portugal. Simply because they have no room for expansion whithout risking war whith neighbours. If hispania would have consist of more provinces then it would have been better.

.. and thats another fact that I can se.. to few provinces.. I se alot of places where I would like more of them. Hopefully the modders of M2TR will add a few more like they did in RTR. But I am sure it will be fun anyway .

I am not sure who comes as 2nd though, France seems to begin whith more provinces than any other faction. However being that large at the start makes them an easy target by many smaller factions situated around them. And to have many hostiles around them could be pretty challenging.

[BaldwinIV]

.. and thats another fact that I can se.. to few provinces.. I se alot of places where I would like more of them. Hopefully the modders of M2TR will add a few more like they did in RTR. But I am sure it will be fun anyway .

I counted 102 provinces at all. But this isn't very significant...

[Randarkmaan]

And in the end game, it would be fun to see Egypt take on the Aztecs...

The Egyptians have powerful cavalry, armour, steel weapons, firearms (they had firearms in MTW, Mamluk handgunners + the other ones), cannon (as most every other faction). It would not be much different from the Spanish fighting the Aztecs... Though it would look very different! And it is a scenario I would want to realize...

I think... Scotland has a difficult starting postion. The Turks can also get bad, most of the time all the Crusades directed at the Egyptians will have to go through you, and they are sort of in the way of the Mongols and probably the Timurids also.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Portugal and spain. they Both stuck together between France and Alhomads (If I remember right). That why I play as Germany or italy more often,even poland.

[Burakius]

The Egyptians have powerful cavalry, armour, steel weapons, firearms (they had firearms in MTW, Mamluk handgunners + the other ones), cannon (as most every other faction). It would not be much different from the Spanish fighting the Aztecs... Though it would look very different! And it is a scenario I would want to realize...

I think... Scotland has a difficult starting postion. The Turks can also get bad, most of the time all the Crusades directed at the Egyptians will have to go through you, and they are sort of in the way of the Mongols and probably the Timurids also.

Will Timurids or Mongols come in later in the game??? I didnt knew that :O

[Basileus]

I would go with Portugal aswell, after my first campaign with the byz i´ll propably play them.

[CaesarAugustus]

https://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?...tw2map2qh7.jpg

Whoa, that is a lot of rebel provinces. Great map though.......

I'd say the top three are Portugal (surrounded), France, and Venice (all hemmed in by superpowers)>

[Zenicetus]

The Turks can also get bad, most of the time all the Crusades directed at the Egyptians will have to go through you, and they are sort of in the way of the Mongols and probably the Timurids also.

A quick question about Crusades, since I never played MTW:

If you're holding provinces that are in the path of a Crusade, like the Byzantines or the Turks, do the Crusader armies just move across your territory without any effect (as long as you're not at war with the faction), or do they try to conquer it as part of the Crusade?

If it's the latter, and you're strong enough to be a deterrent, does the AI bypass the land route with ships?

I know we don't know exactly how M2TW will work... just wondering about how this was in MTW.

[ProudNerd]

Will Timurids or Mongols come in later in the game??? I didnt knew that :O

Mongols will but they are not repeat not playable. Yes this caused an outrage..for others i prefer to play somebody with more amour less cowardly tactics and guns!

[Martok]

Hurrah! Baghdad is in! That makes me happy.

Well I wish I'd seen that map first, as I now agree with most here that the Portuguese probably have the hardest starting position. (I voted for the Polish instead--guess I'm still stuck in MTW mode. )

After the Portuguese, I would say the Scots are probably a close second in terms of diffculty of position. They'll probably have a hard time fighting over York with the English, and I doubt Inverness is going to rake in the cash....

[BaldwinIV]

A quick question about Crusades, since I never played MTW:

If you're holding provinces that are in the path of a Crusade, like the Byzantines or the Turks, do the Crusader armies just move across your territory without any effect (as long as you're not at war with the faction), or do they try to conquer it as part of the Crusade?

If it's the latter, and you're strong enough to be a deterrent, does the AI bypass the land route with ships?

I know we don't know exactly how M2TW will work... just wondering about how this was in MTW.

You could allow them to cross your lands without a fight and lose of territories. The other way was to crush them once and forever

[ciprianrusu]

IMO i think that the toughest ride will be with the portuguese.They have 2 provinces separated one from the other, and the moorish empire breading on their neck. Challenging indeed. The second i think will be the scotish.Stranded on the north side of the map, next to the more powerful english, and not that many resources.Number 3 on this top, well... tough, but i think that the milanese are taking the bronze medal. To tiny and surrounded by powerful neighbors.