Which faction has the worst starting position?

[Ianofsmeg16]

Why dont the english have york?

I'm saying The scots or The HRE...Scots have one small, poor province and can be easily overwhelmed by the english...and the HRE has a large, fragile union and can be quickly surrounded by the French, Danes, Italian States, poland and hungary

[Vladimir]

HRE, as always. Let's see if the AI can play them this time. Playing them in MTW you have to exterminate a faction to secure the peace with them. No forgiveness for the Germans.

[Phalaxar]

France I'd say was toughest, because she has some decent but not great lands - good enough to be desired but not good enough to be an immediate powerhouse.

Portugal, I'd say, was alright - with a bit of luck she could survive and do very well. Ally with Spain immediately, attack the moors to take Corduba (such a lovely province!), build up defensively, take on the Spanish, and they're sitting pretty in that peninsula.
If you leave Spain to itself, just remember: in MTW that other little Spanish faction always did alright for itself - not that I can remember the name!

All the others, I think, can just about survive. France I see as most likely to go out of the game.

Although I suppose the Holy Roman Empire is in a very similar position to France.

Edit: obviously it depends where the player starts. I guess I'm thinking in a game with no player influence. Can't of course say that for sure without seeing the campaign AI.

[maestro]

I voted for Scotland cause they've only got one city and they'll be at war with the very powerful English Empire until they are wiped off the map

[JonnyTheRipper]

Is this map historically correct? What year is it? It seen pretty strange.

[Kavhan Isbul]

The map is as historically incorrect as it gets. There are just way too many rebels, making for a boring opening - each faction has access to plenty of rebel cities, and in the beginning it would be a scramble for lands and centers, suiting a game about the 19th century colonisation of Africa rather than Medieval Europe. I will not game the game until some decent mods come out with a more ralistic starting map.
That being said, back to the topic. I actually think that what applies to the Portugese, applies to the Spanish. Especially if the Moors decide to attack them early or simply take the rebel cities on the Iberian peninsula quicker. A nightmare scenario for the Spanish is for the Portugese to take Zaragoza, while the Moors get to Valencia first. Pamplona seems closer to zaragoza than Toledo, and even if the Spanish take Valencia, they will be squeezed between the Moors and the Portugese - not a great position.
The Scotish actually are in a good position - if they take York, they only have one province to defend against the English (who might be in war with the French on the mainland). The HRE and the French are in a complicated position - plenty of initial lands means they will have to consolidate and defend before they can expand (unless the French can take out the English quickly and the HRE can do the same with Venice). I wonder where the richest lands will be. If cities in the North-East yield poor income, it may turn out that the Novgorods are in the worst starting position, despite being surrounded with plenty of rebels - if they cannot get the funds to develop well before a Western or Southern super power emerges and the Horde arrives, then they would be the hardest faction.

[Darth Nihilus]

I completly agree with what the above poster said about France and the HRE. Portugal and Scotland don't have the easiest starting spots, but neither are they the hardest. One provence factions are never hard to manage. Portuagl has natural borders after conquering the Iberian peninsula, and is very easily defended. Same goes for Scotland and the British Isles. They get way, way easier after just a few conquests. With the HRE (and France to a lesser extent) there is no reprieve after winning a few battles because there are no natural boundries. I.e. after defeating the Franch and the Italians, then come the English and Spanish. Or if you go the other direction after defeating Poland and Hungary, there is no natural border between you and the Byzantines and Novogorod. We haven't played the game yet, but based on what we have so far it is the HRE no contest. Saying Portugal has the most difficult spot is like saying Aragon had the most difficult in the original MTW. It's nearly the same thing. Another thing people seem to be forgetting is that the Iberian Peninsula is far wealthier than the central European lands of the HRE.

Novogorod could possibly be very difficult too if the area is poor.

[andrewt]

I would say HRE. Starting out, it's not so bad. However, in a few turns, you could be bordering as many as 7 other nations (Venice, Milan, Hungary, Poland, Denmark, England and France). It should be interesting.

Portugal has the toughest position based on just starting lands. However, if you can manage a quick strike against Spain, their position becomes good easily. I think difficulty of starting position should take into account whether you can make it a lot better in a few good moves.

[Darth Nihilus]

That was very well put andrewt.

[satchef1]

ive changed my mind, a quick look at the campaign map and i think Venice will have the hardest time. HRE to the north, Hungary to the north-east, Byzantium to the south-east, Milan to the west. Those are some unfortunate neighbours!

[Smidgey]

Scotland isn't that bad, especially since they can grab three provinces easily. They have a link from Edinburgh to Ireland. If they go into Northumbria first they could capture it whilst making smaller forces for Ireland and Inverness which nobody else can conquer early on in the game.

The worst position goes to the HRE. Hopefully the AI will know how to play them well this time. I would like to see some epic battles trying to invade a massive and well played HRE! :D

[Drake]

Portugal. Split territories, neighbours to two potential superpowers in the Muslim Moors who can attack them without fear of Papal condemnation, and the Spanish who are in easy striking position of both Portugal and Naverre which they could hit at the same time easy.

To survive I'm betting that you would need to either buddy up with one against the other, which opens more problems. Do side with the slightly apparently more powerful Moors (open to debate that one) or the same faith Spanish who you can't attack without excommunication? If Portugal can survive the early stages though it'd be a good position, close to the New World, great trading position to both the Med and the north and far from the Pope and any marauding bands of super-calvary factions coming from the east to kill and plunder indiscriminately. But then, what's the chances of the latter happening....

[LegioScythia]

Scotland isn't that bad, especially since they can grab three provinces easily. They have a link from Edinburgh to Ireland. If they go into Northumbria first they could capture it whilst making smaller forces for Ireland and Inverness which nobody else can conquer early on in the game.

The worst position goes to the HRE. Hopefully the AI will know how to play them well this time. I would like to see some epic battles trying to invade a massive and well played HRE! :D

i agree with you HRE is more or less in the middle of europe so it can be attacked from almost every side another thing was the fact that almost all the generals were disloyal there was time that i had a civil war each 5 turns

[hoetje]

I voted Portugal.It really sucks having a non-united kingdom

[PseRamesses]

Portugal with Scotland as runner up.

[Richard The Tiger Heart]

I dont think Portugal has the worst starting position. They can be attacked from north, east and south but they cant be attacked by west unless theres an amphibius invasion.

The HRE can be attacked on every direction and has powerful superpowers near it like France or the rich Italian Republics. Its still is the most difficult.

Second would be the Byzantines which have their main provinces separated by the bosphorous strait. Sounds like the Crusaders and Seljuk Turks could give you a bad time.