Which faction has the worst starting position?

**Darth Nihilus** · 10-30-2006, 20:50

I completly agree with what the above poster said about France and the HRE. Portugal and Scotland don't have the easiest starting spots, but neither are they the hardest. One provence factions are never hard to manage. Portuagl has natural borders after conquering the Iberian peninsula, and is very easily defended. Same goes for Scotland and the British Isles. They get way, way easier after just a few conquests. With the HRE (and France to a lesser extent) there is no reprieve after winning a few battles because there are no natural boundries. I.e. after defeating the Franch and the Italians, then come the English and Spanish. Or if you go the other direction after defeating Poland and Hungary, there is no natural border between you and the Byzantines and Novogorod. We haven't played the game yet, but based on what we have so far it is the HRE no contest. Saying Portugal has the most difficult spot is like saying Aragon had the most difficult in the original MTW. It's nearly the same thing. Another thing people seem to be forgetting is that the Iberian Peninsula is far wealthier than the central European lands of the HRE.

Novogorod could possibly be very difficult too if the area is poor.

**andrewt** · 10-31-2006, 03:54

I would say HRE. Starting out, it's not so bad. However, in a few turns, you could be bordering as many as 7 other nations (Venice, Milan, Hungary, Poland, Denmark, England and France). It should be interesting.

Portugal has the toughest position based on just starting lands. However, if you can manage a quick strike against Spain, their position becomes good easily. I think difficulty of starting position should take into account whether you can make it a lot better in a few good moves.

**Darth Nihilus** · 10-31-2006, 04:31

That was very well put andrewt.

**satchef1** · 10-31-2006, 12:51

ive changed my mind, a quick look at the campaign map and i think Venice will have the hardest time. HRE to the north, Hungary to the north-east, Byzantium to the south-east, Milan to the west. Those are some unfortunate neighbours!

**Smidgey** · 10-31-2006, 20:24

Scotland isn't that bad, especially since they can grab three provinces easily. They have a link from Edinburgh to Ireland. If they go into Northumbria first they could capture it whilst making smaller forces for Ireland and Inverness which nobody else can conquer early on in the game.

The worst position goes to the HRE. Hopefully the AI will know how to play them well this time. I would like to see some epic battles trying to invade a massive and well played HRE! :D

**LegioScythia** · 10-31-2006, 22:48

Originally Posted by Smidgey

Scotland isn't that bad, especially since they can grab three provinces easily. They have a link from Edinburgh to Ireland. If they go into Northumbria first they could capture it whilst making smaller forces for Ireland and Inverness which nobody else can conquer early on in the game.

The worst position goes to the HRE. Hopefully the AI will know how to play them well this time. I would like to see some epic battles trying to invade a massive and well played HRE! :D

i agree with you HRE is more or less in the middle of europe so it can be attacked from almost every side another thing was the fact that almost all the generals were disloyal there was time that i had a civil war each 5 turns