Manipulation of the Media

[IRONxMortlock]

Yes, it appears Al-Qaida's giant information ministry, staffed with thousands of willing islamofascists working at thousands of computers in the heart of Terror City has been deviously manipulating the media.

In fact, rather than the souls of the tens of thousands of innocent people he has killed, the almost 3,000 American soliders he needlessly sent to their deaths or screams of those he has approved for torture keeping Rummy awake at night, it is only this manipulation of the media that keeps him from a peaceful slumber.

Isn't the solution obvious then? To these nut jobs it certainly is - let the government manipulate the media even futher! Afterall, they are the ones who know the truth so why not let them provide us ALL of our information.

This new propaganda unit will "develop messages for the 24-hour news cycle and aim to correct the record". You can be happy in the thought that Rummy will be sleeping easy now that the government "...would monitor media such as weblogs and would also employ "surrogates", or top politicians or lobbyists who could be interviewed on TV and radio shows".

WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

We truely live in frightening times.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pentagon mounts media offensive
US troops in Iraq
US officials believe bad news from Iraq gets undue coverage
The Pentagon has set up a new unit to focus on promoting its message across 24-hour rolling news outlets, and particularly on the internet.

The US Defence Department said it would expand its public relations work to fight "inaccurate" news stories.

Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has said media manipulation by enemies of the US is the only thing keeping him awake at night.

Domestic support for the war in Iraq has fallen as US mid-term polls near.

The opposition Democrats are trying to win control of Congress from the Republicans.

'Correcting messages'

The newly-established Pentagon unit would use "new media" channels to push its message, a spokesman said.

"We're looking at being quicker to respond to breaking news," the spokesman said.

"Being quicker to respond, frankly, to inaccurate statements."

According to the BBC's Justin Webb in Washington, the Bush administration does not believe the true picture of events in Iraq has been made public.

He says the administration is particularly concerned that insurgents in areas such as Iraq have been able to use the web to disseminate their message and give the impression they are more powerful than the US.

A Pentagon memo seen by the Associated Press news agency said the new unit will "develop messages" for the 24-hour news cycle and aim to "correct the record".

A spokesman said the unit would monitor media such as weblogs and would also employ "surrogates", or top politicians or lobbyists who could be interviewed on TV and radio shows.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6100906.stm

[CrossLOPER]

IRONxMortlock...

They do not appreciate what you are trying to do. You had better stop before they have to correct you.

[Xiahou]

Pentagon mounts media offensive

Good.

[IRONxMortlock]

Good.

Good?

I guess some people enjoy having their news replaced by blatant military propaganda.

IRONxMortlock...
They do not appreciate what you are trying to do. You had better stop before they have to correct you.

LOL, but I definitely see a trend towards something very sinister here. I wonder how long/how many more terrorist attacks it will take before Americans who openly critise their government find themselves in some form of internment camp?

[Papewaio]

Torture, propaganda and the right to use the military within the borders!

North Korea? Nope
Stalinist Russia? Nope
Leader of the Free World? Well I do appreciate irony but it is a bit far to call that now. Failing to convert idealology into reality is not a step forwards methinks.

[CrossLOPER]

LOL, but I definitely see a trend towards something very sinister here. I wonder how long/how many more terrorist attacks it will take before Americans who openly critise their government find themselves in some form of internment camp?

What? No rolling eyes?

[Crazed Rabbit]

I gotta say, I luuuuuuuuuuuuuuvvv all these threads where foreigners worry about domestic US laws for us people who just happen to live in the US.

Especially when they blow it way out of proportion; like this.
The military want's to get its version of the facts out? It's propaganda just like 1984!
A law allowing easier use of the Nat'l guard by the fed after the fed was criticized for states not using their nat'l guards- military occupation of the US!

I'm not even going to bother responding point by point to all the crap posted in this thread.

CR

[CrossLOPER]

I gotta say, I luuuuuuuuuuuuuuvvv all these threads where foreigners worry about domestic US laws for us people who just happen to live in the US.

I live in the US at this time, so I think I have some sort of say.

Especially when they blow it way out of proportion; like this.
The military want's to get its version of the facts out? It's propaganda just like 1984!

Well, saying everything is nice and shiny and covering up anything remotely damaging is kinda... um... not good.

A law allowing easier use of the Nat'l guard by the fed after the fed was criticized for states not using their nat'l guards- military occupation of the US!

You want to have trigger-happy soldiers hopping about your home whenever someone high up wills it?

I'm not even going to bother responding point by point to all the crap posted in this thread.


CR

OK, but I called you cupcake. You just keep that in mind.

[IRONxMortlock]

I gotta say, I luuuuuuuuuuuuuuvvv all these threads where foreigners worry about domestic US laws for us people who just happen to live in the US.

CR[/QUOTE]

You see one thing "leftists" do have that those who make up the right-wing echo-chamber lack, is empathy. The ability to feel for others. To put yourself into someone else's shoes. To see it from the other side, to get an appreciation for what it might feel like to suffer from injustice - what it's like to have a bunch of foreign soldiers kick in your door at 4AM, kill your son and take your husband away for 6 months of "questioning". What it's like to be locked away without trial for years. What it's like to live in police state where you must watch what you say. I AM concerned for the well being of US citizens and it distresses me greatly to see their democracy being torn to shreads in what is supposedly an effort to "protect" it.

I am also concerned for the rest of the world. The last thing the world needs is a WMD armed rouge superpower headed by a dictatorial band of corporatists going around blowing up more people.

I believe I am right to worry and I will express my concerns. You don't like it, that's fine, don't read it then.

A law allowing easier use of the Nat'l guard by the fed after the fed was criticized for states not using their nat'l guards- military occupation of the US!

That new law makes it possible for one man to call the military onto the streets to police the civilian population whenever he sees it nesecary. That's a pretty big jump towards despotism.

Especially when they blow it way out of proportion; like this.
The military want's to get its version of the facts out? It's propaganda just like 1984!

Back on topic,

The military has more than ample opportunity to get their side of the story out - Pentagon press conferences, interviews, embedded reporters, spokemen. It shouldn't be allowed to manufacture news any more than it already does.

EDIT - Speaking of 1984 and doublespeak I just came across this; a wonderful example of 1984 style doublespeak.

Freedom is Indefinite Detention Without Trial.

[Ice]

I AM concerned for the well being of US citizens and it distresses me greatly to see their democracy being torn to shreads in what is supposedly an effort to "protect" it.

Thank you for your concern, but we can handle this without outside help. Thank you, have a nice day.

[Blodrast]

Thank you for your concern, but we can handle this without outside help. Thank you, have a nice day.

So non-US citizens should keep their mouths shut, and not bother you with these things, because it's none of their business ?

But you see, Ice, when you play cop of the world, the others DO care what's going on in your own backyard. Because you DO get involved - remember the thread that showed in how many countries there are US and UK troops ?
The US one was covering a huge percentage of the globe. Yes, I know, some of those cases involve very few soldiers, but that's not the point, the point is that the US does get involved pretty much everywhere.

You don't have the moral right to get YOUR nose in other people's business, but tell them to stay away when they get interested in what's going on in your own courtyard.
If you want isolationism, that's fine, you're perfectly entitled to it. But that also implies you don't stick your nose into other countries' businesses.


Back on topic.
Rabbit: an honest question for you, because I am truly puzzled that you of all people (meaning, non-extremist views, does research on posts, very much coherent and logical) are stating that all is pink in the land of the free. Please tell me, and I am not being sarcastic in this, do you truly believe that the American people have as many rights, and as much freedom as they had, say, 10 or 15 years ago ?

[Xiahou]

I gotta say, I luuuuuuuuuuuuuuvvv all these threads where foreigners worry about domestic US laws for us people who just happen to live in the US.

Particularly when most of their own countries are far closer to a police state than our own.

Good?

I guess some people enjoy having their news replaced by blatant military propaganda.

Yeah, that'll happen.

Yes, good. The terrorists are having little trouble getting their propoganda out- CNN runs their tapes for them, it's about time the US got it's act together on this front. Propaganda has been a huge part of every successful war effort and we've been doing a poor job of it thus far.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I live in the US at this time, so I think I have some sort of say.

Well, I suppose...just this once.

Well, saying everything is nice and shiny and covering up anything remotely damaging is kinda... um... not good.

They are not covering up anything, merely getting their version across- free speech, you know.

You want to have trigger-happy soldiers hopping about your home whenever someone high up wills it?

No law allows that.

OK, but I called you cupcake. You just keep that in mind.

Okaaaaaaaaay.

You see one thing "leftists" do have that those who make up the right-wing echo-chamber lack, is empathy. blah blah blah I AM concerned for the well being of US citizens and it distresses me greatly to see their democracy being torn to shreads in what is supposedly an effort to "protect" it.

I am also concerned for the rest of the world. The last thing the world needs is a WMD armed rouge superpower headed by a dictatorial band of corporatists going around blowing up more people.

I believe I am right to worry and I will express my concerns. You don't like it, that's fine, don't read it then.

That's hilarious. I suppose your empathy is selective, if you opposed the invasion of Iraq.
It's also hilarious someone from Japan is criticizing US democracy and then goes on to call us a dictatorial band of corporatists.

We don't need other people exagerrating beyond reality the lastest thing 'bushitlerburton' has done to 'destroy the US';

That new law makes it possible for one man to call the military onto the streets to police the civilian population whenever he sees it nesecary. That's a pretty big jump towards despotism.

The military has more than ample opportunity to get their side of the story out - Pentagon press conferences, interviews, embedded reporters, spokemen. It shouldn't be allowed to manufacture news any more than it already does.

Guess what- the MSM decides what to print, not the Pentagon. They aren't manufacturing news, merely trying to get the MSM to report on some good things once and a while.

EDIT - Speaking of 1984 and doublespeak I just came across this; a wonderful example of 1984 style doublespeak.

Are you aware of the history of Camp Gitmo? It appears not.

Rabbit: an honest question for you, because I am truly puzzled that you of all people (meaning, non-extremist views, does research on posts, very much coherent and logical) are stating that all is pink in the land of the free. Please tell me, and I am not being sarcastic in this, do you truly believe that the American people have as many rights, and as much freedom as they had, say, 10 or 15 years ago ?

I don't think the situation is pink, and have grave concerns about some abuses of government power (ironically almost never brought up here); asset seizure and the 'war on drugs', especially the militarization of police.
But I don't think these laws are going to lead to President for Life Bush or any other nonsense.
As for rights- more than 10 years ago, less than 15. I'm basing this mainly on the dates of the assualt weapons ban. Though McCain-Feingold campagin finance reform (we must regulate the money in politics! And speech is worth money! Regulate speech! as it has come to pass in Washington state) tips the scale in favor of less rights. I dispise every idiot who signed that, including Pres Bush, and the constitution shredding Supreme Court that upheld a law banning people from running ads mentioning a candidate's name 30 days before the election.
All is not rosy, but neither is it the apocalypse.

CR

[Blodrast]

Thanks, Rabbit.
And btw, I do remember discussions on asset seizure; I guess that's why you said "almost" :).

[macsen rufus]

Thank you for your concern, but we can handle this without outside help. Thank you, have a nice day.

Now say that again with an Iraqi accent....

[Ice]

So non-US citizens should keep their mouths shut, and not bother you with these things, because it's none of their business ?

But you see, Ice, when you play cop of the world, the others DO care what's going on in your own backyard. Because you DO get involved - remember the thread that showed in how many countries there are US and UK troops ?
The US one was covering a huge percentage of the globe. Yes, I know, some of those cases involve very few soldiers, but that's not the point, the point is that the US does get involved pretty much everywhere.

You don't have the moral right to get YOUR nose in other people's business, but tell them to stay away when they get interested in what's going on in your own courtyard.
If you want isolationism, that's fine, you're perfectly entitled to it. But that also implies you don't stick your nose into other countries' businesses.

If what another country is doing doesn't effect me or my interests, I really could care what they do. If they want to live 13th Century style in a cave or use some backwards law code, by all means go right ahead, but as soon this starts to effect ME and the country I live in, that is when it's my business.

I really don't see how this is anyone elses business besides people who reside in this country.

Like I said, thanks, but REALLY no thanks.

[drone]

I started the thread about the possible elimination of Posse Comitatus, and I'm an US citizen, born and raised. I also consider myself fairly conservative (something that cannot be said for the current administration). Non-US citizens should worry about what goes on here though, it does affect them and at least somebody gives a damn. They may be able to tell you a train is coming, it's your choice to listen or to stick your fingers in your ears while shouting "Nah nah nah nah nah".

However, on this issue, meh. As long as the Pentagon doesn't waste too many resources generating propaganda instead of properly equipping the troops, I suppose they can do what they want. Gung-ho propaganda is nothing new. It would be nice to hear about some of the good things happening in Iraq/Afghanistan, but like all news it should not be taken as straight fact.

Rummy's statement about not losing sleep over anything but bad press... Sounds about right, coming from him.

[macsen rufus]

So, Ice, you still haven't noticed the hyprocrisy of your position?

[Ice]

So, Ice, you still haven't noticed the hyprocrisy of your position?

I'll leave that up to you to decide.

[Blodrast]

If what another country is doing doesn't effect me or my interests, I really could care what they do. If they want to live 13th Century style in a cave or use some backwards law code, by all means go right ahead, but as soon this starts to effect ME and the country I live in, that is when it's my business.

I really don't see how this is anyone elses business besides people who reside in this country.

Like I said, thanks, but REALLY no thanks.

Part of it is what drone said. However, what I, and presumably macsen rufus were referring to, was this: it DOES affect people in other countries, because the US GETS INVOLVED in those countries !
Since the US has troops, for whatever reason, in those countries, and the US pulls a lot of strings all around the world, this is DIRECTLY affecting people in those countries. Therefore, they are entitled to worry over the actions of the US leaders and so on, because it's those people's decisions that will affect their lives.
Go ask an Iraqi if they think they should be concerned with who's in charge and with the external politics of the US...

What you just said is the very definition of a double standard (aka hypocrisy): "when others do something that affects me, I'm entitled to poke my nose into their business. However, nobody else should stick their fingers in MY business".

I'll stop here, because I've hijacked the thread enough (sorry, drone), and also because you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink.

[drone]

I'll stop here, because I've hijacked the thread enough (sorry, drone), and also because you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink.

No worries, not my thread.

[Tribesman]

I am completely in favour of the pentagon expanding their propoganda machine .


It will provide endless entertainment , for those who like to laugh at the piles of bull excrement they manage come up with .
Just think how many milestones and turned corners they can invent .

[Ice]

Part of it is what drone said. However, what I, and presumably macsen rufus were referring to, was this: it DOES affect people in other countries, because the US GETS INVOLVED in those countries !
Since the US has troops, for whatever reason, in those countries, and the US pulls a lot of strings all around the world, this is DIRECTLY affecting people in those countries. Therefore, they are entitled to worry over the actions of the US leaders and so on, because it's those people's decisions that will affect their lives.
Go ask an Iraqi if they think they should be concerned with who's in charge and with the external politics of the US...

What you just said is the very definition of a double standard (aka hypocrisy): "when others do something that affects me, I'm entitled to poke my nose into their business. However, nobody else should stick their fingers in MY business".

I'll stop here, because I've hijacked the thread enough (sorry, drone), and also because you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink.

Blod, I'm not trying to sound like a hypocrite. I'm simply saying stay out of our domestic affairs, and I (WE) will try to stay out of yours. My point was, if it doesn't us or you, you should let us worry about.

Now, foreign policy moves I agree with you about. That's another story. I just don't find that this particular topic really effects anybody besides citizens of our country.

[Blodrast]

Now, foreign policy moves I agree with you about. That's another story. I just don't find that this particular topic really effects anybody besides citizens of our country.

I tend to agree with you in that this particular topic has little effect on those outside the US.
While my point was that *some* of your apparently-purely-domestic issues have an effect on others through your foreign policy, again, this hardly applies to this particular issue.
My bad for getting sidetracked and OTish.

[BigTex]

Pentagon mounts media offensive

Good, not like the BBC cares about the truth. I don't see the problem with this. The military just wants to get their side heard, which doesnt happen. With all the stories the BBC pieces together to get their message out, do you really think that the truth is getting out? It's not as if their forcing anyone to watch this, your free to browse this channel at your leasure.

This topic doesnt even come close to involving foriegn citizens. This is a domestic issue, not even foriegn policy. Anyways IRONxMortlock shouldn't you be more concerned with North Korea getting nukes?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There's skeletons in every countries closet, but at least at guantonimo because of the military commisions act they will recieve trials.

[Tribesman]

The military just wants to get their side heard, which doesnt happen.

Damn I could have sworn the BBC broadcast those usual pentagon and white house briefings , I must have dreamt that they even do some of them live when the military says it is making a big announcement .
I think you will find Tex that the problem isn't that they don't get heard , it is just that what they do say is often shown to be rubbish in very short order .

This topic doesnt even come close to involving foriegn citizens.

How so , it is a global war on terror isn't it , the tripe is circulated round the world isn't it , you have allies in this fiasco don't you .
So how the hell can it not involve foreigners ?

[BDC]

Doesn't involve anyone else? Your country gives us our foreign policy! If things fall apart at home and you need another war to distract people and boost the economy, guess who'll be there proudly sending in under-equipped 18 year olds in paper-thin land rovers?

[IRONxMortlock]

It simply blows my mind that anyone would WANT to have the truth replaced by government sunshine and lollipops stories. Oh well, at least you'll have some "information" with which you can further rationalise your support of an illegal and immoral war.

Anyway, I had said everything I needed to say so I was going to leave this thread be. However there are a few things that need to be corrected.

Firstly the issue of a non-US citizen commenting on US domestic policy:
I can’t stand the arrogant and condescending tone some people have demonstrated about this. Sorry mighty lords for even daring to think about discussing US domestic policy! I notice that hasn’t stopped many American’s chiming in on topics relevant only to other countries’ domestic laws etc. (not blaming Americans for doing so BTW, it doesn’t bother me at all if American’s talk about what happens in my neck of the woods. In fact, I believe it’s great to get an outside perspective). I've already answered why I feel compelled to comment and concern myself with some US domestic policy.
1. I don't want to see US citizens living in a dictatorship.
2. I don't want the world to have to deal with the danger of a US dictatorship.
I don't believe the dictatorship is here yet but it isn't going to happen in one big jump, it will come with the acceptance of many "little" issues. A little loss of habeas corpus here, a bit of biometric information imprinted on compulsory ID cards there, the military allowed to police civilians, a bit of military propaganda under the guise of news, a growing divide between rich and poor. Each a step closer to despotism. One more major terrorist attack and ta-dah – dictatorship. But once again I digress.

Specifically relating to this thread however, I believe this is also a matter of US foreign policy. I'm sure this new propaganda will also be aimed at foreign news sources. Globalisation has created a fairly interlinked media network and plenty of this new "news" will end up in my face. In fact, I believe this may be one of the primary reasons for creating this new "media correction unit"; to improve America's global image and "manage the perceptions" of world opinion. After all, if we don't agree with the official line then we need to be "corrected" don’t we?

There's skeletons in every countries closet, but at least at guantonimo because of the military commisions act they will recieve trials.

Lol, yeah I'm sure they will receive and fair "trial" and be shot at dawn. In using this comparison it’s good to see that you also consider the concentration camps in Gitmo a war crime. However I think you’ve missed the point about the media being manipulated. I used that picture to show an example of doublespeak (and yes CR, I am aware that the US base and its slogan in Cuba has a longer history than the current gulags there). Tex, Your picture doesn’t seem relevant to the discussion at all. Rather it appears to be a vulgar attempt to stifle debate by depicting the despicable actions of an empire which expired more than 60 years ago. I guess it was inevitable for the “you can’t talk because your country does/did x” line of arguments to appear. There are two such arguments in this thread alone! Even if I was Japanese, which I am not (my work brought me to Japan), I fail to see how what I didn’t have anything to do with 60 years ago would somehow destroy my arguments about present day topics.

[Ice]

It simply blows my mind that anyone would WANT to have the truth replaced by government sunshine and lollipops stories. Oh well, at least you'll have some "information" with which you can further rationalise your support of an illegal and immoral war.

There is no such thing as a "moral war". War is war. It also always cracks me up when people use the word illegal. What exactly is a legal war?

Anyway, I had said everything I needed to say so I was going to leave this thread be. However there are a few things that need to be corrected.

Firstly the issue of a non-US citizen commenting on US domestic policy:
I can’t stand the arrogant and condescending tone some people have demonstrated about this. Sorry mighty lords for even daring to think about discussing US domestic policy! I notice that hasn’t stopped many American’s chiming in on topics relevant only to other countries’ domestic laws etc. (not blaming Americans for doing so BTW, it doesn’t bother me at all if American’s talk about what happens in my neck of the woods. In fact, I believe it’s great to get an outside perspective). I've already answered why I feel compelled to comment and concern myself with some US domestic policy.
1. I don't want to see US citizens living in a dictatorship.
2. I don't want the world to have to deal with the danger of a US dictatorship.
I don't believe the dictatorship is here yet but it isn't going to happen in one big jump, it will come with the acceptance of many "little" issues. A little loss of habeas corpus here, a bit of biometric information imprinted on compulsory ID cards there, the military allowed to police civilians, a bit of military propaganda under the guise of news, a growing divide between rich and poor. Each a step closer to despotism. One more major terrorist attack and ta-dah – dictatorship. But once again I digress.

Far fetched at best.


It's not the fact that we are arrogant and think our country is perfect, it's the fact we constantly get people like you coming up with these far fetched scenarios over every little far fetched detail that you can possibily dig up. It gets REALLY old after a while.

By the way, "Mighty Lords"? What's your problem, bud? I simply stated above that I'll stay out of your domesetic policy, if you stay out of mine. Who has the issues now?

Specifically relating to this thread however, I believe this is also a matter of US foreign policy. I'm sure this new propaganda will also be aimed at foreign news sources. Globalisation has created a fairly interlinked media network and plenty of this new "news" will end up in my face. In fact, I believe this may be one of the primary reasons for creating this new "media correction unit"; to improve America's global image and "manage the perceptions" of world opinion. After all, if we don't agree with the official line then we need to be "corrected" don’t we?

More far fetched conspiracy theories. This stuff never gets old.

[BigTex]

It simply blows my mind that anyone would WANT to have the truth replaced by government sunshine and lollipops stories. Oh well, at least you'll have some "information" with which you can further rationalise your support of an illegal and immoral war.

First of all war in and of itself has no ground on morality, its a horid and atrocious thing. but it happens and it is neccesary sometimes, both in its defensive and aggresive forms. Secondly there is no such thing as an illegal war, the blame or legality of a war is merely a way for the victor to apply to the defeated in most cases. And at last to the actuall point of this thread, whats wrong with a channel devoted to the military, it'll just be like CSPAN and CSPAN2. 2 channels I might add that most people in other countries don't get or wont know about. If you dont want to hear what they want, or you want a view thats slanted more towards your line of thinking or just want to hear some good ol American bashing stick to the BBC.

Firstly the issue of a non-US citizen commenting on US domestic policy:
I can’t stand the arrogant and condescending tone some people have demonstrated about this. Sorry mighty lords for even daring to think about discussing US domestic policy!

It wont affect you at all, thats the problem with a foriegn citizen complaining about it. It wont amount to much and most likely you wont get the channel even by your satelite provider.

Tex, Your picture doesn’t seem relevant to the discussion at all. Rather it appears to be a vulgar attempt to stifle debate

Neither was that Iron. That has neither a thing to do with the channel being created or the previous discussion on the debate of foriegners discussing and trying to influence domestic law. It is nothing more then a vulgar and disgusting attempt to crush and quell all dissent. I pointed out if you want to play that way, I can too.

Freedom is Indefinite Detention Without Trial.

you can’t talk because your country does/did x

Funny, ain't it.