John Kerry showing how liberals "Support the Troops"

[Crazed Rabbit]

Now the American Veterans group is firing at Kerry:

To: City Desk,

Contact: Joseph Chenelly of AMVETS, 301-683-4035, or jchenelly@amvets.org

LANHAM, Md., Oct. 31 /U.S. Newswire/ -- AMVETS' National Commander expressed disbelief and disappointment in the comments by Senator John Kerry Monday.

“For the Senator to suggest that today’s United States military is made up of uneducated men and women who didn’t ‘study hard’ or ‘make an effort to be smart’ is ridiculous and appalling,” AMVETS National Commander Thomas C. McGriff said Tuesday. “The men and women in uniform today make up the most advanced, highly-educated force ever seen. To suggest otherwise is a slap in the face to every soldier, sailor, airman, Marine and Coast Guardsman who has spent countless hours working to better him or herself. This is also an insult to every person and organization who has worked tirelessly to provide our troops and their families with education benefits.

“Senator Kerry should retract his remarks and apologize immediately,” McGriff said after listening to comments made by Senator Kerry at a political rally in Pasadena, Calif., Monday. “It is especially outrageous coming from a member of the U.S. Senate.”

-----

A leader since 1944 in preserving the freedoms secured by America's Armed Forces, AMVETS is the only veterans service organization that represents members of every branch of the military, including the National Guard and Reserve. AMVETS provides support for veterans and the active military in procuring their earned entitlements as well as community services that enhance veterans’ quality of life. More information on AMVETS can be found at http://www.amvets.org.

Media organizations seeking further comment or more information should contact the AMVETS National Headquarters by calling 301-683-4035.

But of course Kerry knows better than those stupid vets.

CR

[BigTex]

Done. Can't see anything wrong with it. I've expressed a view point, and ackowledged that it may well be wrong. And you're still throwing your toys out of the pram.

He's more then likely angered because you've agreed with a statement that calls him an uneducated idiot. This is why Kerry's statement is wrong, he's calling a large portion of the bravest citizens uneducated idiots, ironically including himself.

[Justiciar]

But I've said twice now that THAT ISN'T WHAT I MEANT.



I'm sorry if that's what you think I'm saying, Redleg, seriously. And if it's what Kerry is saying then I misunderstood him.

[CrossLOPER]

This is why Kerry's statement is wrong, he's calling a large portion of the bravest citizens uneducated idiots, ironically including himself.

Does that make sense to you?

[BigTex]

Edited-mithrandirs request.

education if you make the most of it, study hard and do your homework and make an effort to be smart you'll do well. If you don't you get stuck in iraq.

There isnt much not to understand there, he's saying if your in iraq, your not smart, you didn't study hard and you don't have much of an education.

Does that make sense to you?

What portion is not understandable. He called the hundreds of thousands of citizens that served in iraq and the to numerous to count veterans of previous wars idiots. He is also one of those vet's.

[CrossLOPER]

TWhat portion is not understandable. He called the hundreds of thousands of citizens that served in iraq and the to numerous to count veterans of previous wars idiots. He is also one of those vet's.

I mean do you really believe that the people that are commonly labled as "liberal", including Kerry in this case, truly feel this way?

[Redleg]

But I've said twice now that THAT ISN'T WHAT I MEANT.



I'm sorry if that's what you think I'm saying, Redleg, seriously. And if it's what Kerry is saying then I misunderstood him.

As I stated earlier take a good look at what you wrote, and see how it will be taken by veterns or those that are serving in the armed forces.

Seems like a reasonable statement to make. Militaries the world over see kids with poor grades and "no hope" for a future as their primary target for recruitment.

freedom hating liberals, eh?

as I stated earlier i found it a cheap shot and one based upon being un-informed or as I wrote it initally before it was edited by the moderator.

Your statement here indicates you realize that your statement is nothing other then a cheap shot at something you have never bothered to become informed of.

Which regardless of the moderator's postion on this is not an arguement at the man but one at your arguement. If I was truely angery I would have made a more pronounced statement directed at your specificially not your comment.

lack of being informed does not equate to anything else other then one is lacking information.

[Redleg]

I mean do you really believe that the people that are commonly labled as "liberal", including Kerry in this case, truly feel this way?

Kerry's problem is that he more then likely does feel this way for numerous reasons. However the majority of individuals that are "liberal" don't believe this way, especially the "liberials" in the military.

Its rather humorous that in Kerry's attempt to pander to a vocal minority within his party, he just stepped into insulting a vast number of people within his own party with his statements.

[Kanamori]

This is why he lost. His statements were usually able to be taken out of context, and the GOP took advantage in the Presidential race.

I mean do you really believe that the people that are commonly labled as "liberal", including Kerry in this case, truly feel this way?

Of course, it's the most negative interpretation to make; he's 'liberal' and deserves contempt, not objectivity.

[Xiahou]

Of course, it's the most negative interpretation to make; he's 'liberal' and deserves contempt, not objectivity.

How else can you interpret it? His words were quite plain.

[yesdachi]

This is why he lost. His statements were usually able to be taken out of context, and the GOP took advantage in the Presidential race.

They string up Bush with his bass ackward speak all the time. If you dish it out, expect to get a spoonful back once in a while.

[BigTex]

They string up Bush with his bass ackward speak all the time. If you dish it out, expect to get a spoonful back once in a while.

Spoken for the truth except it doesnt need anymore stretching to see its vileness.

education if you make the most of it, study hard and do your homework and make an effort to be smart you'll do well. If you don't you get stuck in iraq.

That and his previous comments about the soldiers in iraq are quite self explanatory as to why he lost.

I mean do you really believe that the people that are commonly labled as "liberal", including Kerry in this case, truly feel this way?

I'm not commenting as to wether anyother liberal agrees to that. All I am commenting on are his views and his comments, though it sure does seem like the people in that room liked his comments.

[Kanamori]

In the context of the speech, it is clear that the statement could have meaning other than the literally interpreted 'plain words' he used. Rather than seeking to clarify, the GOP lambasts it. Clearly, phrases do take meaning outside of what literal interpretations of word combination would make. Yes, it is possible that he did intend it not to be a reference to GWB, but there is nothing that shows that, minus the fact that he is a 'liberal'.

Politics, as played out, is absurdly negative.

[Kanamori]

They string up Bush with his bass ackward speak all the time. If you dish it out, expect to get a spoonful back once in a while.

Not sure why you quoted me... I don't support the absurd Democratic talking points, either.

Sorry for my grumpiness coming through, it is wrong to express it here.

[CrossLOPER]

I'm not commenting as to wether anyother liberal agrees to that. All I am commenting on are his views and his comments, though it sure does seem like the people in that room liked his comments.

Alright, but I just want to know why your initial response would be "Darn liberal/elitist/democrat!" and not "Why would he say that? Perhaps he misspoke?" Would you not think the latter when Bush butchers his own quip?

[BigTex]

Alright, but I just want to know why your initial response would be "Darn liberal/elitist/democrat!" and not "Why would he say that? Perhaps he misspoke?" Would you not think the latter when Bush butchers his own quip?

Thats disgusting, so much disdain for a military that he served in and protects him. Good job McCain. Kerry needs to take a bus to some paris superbs.

First post. Original response.

As to why I would assume the worste when he says it, is becuase of previous statements along these lines. But hey lets forget all about the "Troops breaking down doors and scaring babies" comments.

[Tribesman]

There isnt much not to understand there, he's saying if your in iraq, your not smart

And what else is there to say , it ain't smart to be in Iraq .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rWX...elated&search=
Unless of course you think its clever to waste life and limb for some muppets who didn't do their homework .

[Xiahou]

And what else is there to say , it ain't smart to be in Iraq .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rWX...elated&search=
Unless of course you think its clever to waste life and limb for some muppets who didn't do their homework .

Leave it to Tribesman to come out and insult all of the armed forces.... really disgusting.

[BDC]

Leave it to Tribesman to come out and insult all of the armed forces.... really disgusting.

How's that insulting? Never smart to be in a warzone...

And whoever organised and planned everything really didn't do any homework. No one can argue with that either.

[Tribesman]

No Xiahou , what is really disgusting is the idiots in power throwing their citizens lives away on a half baked idea .

[Devastatin Dave]

And what else is there to say , it ain't smart to be in Iraq .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rWX...elated&search=
Unless of course you think its clever to waste life and limb for some muppets who didn't do their homework .

Thanks for proving my point.
Pretty much people such as Tribesman, Kanamori, Justiciar, and Kerry have a perception that only the stupid and foolish are currently residing in the military. They are entitled to their opinions. But the folks trying to say that Kerry was saying something totally different from what HE ACTUALLY SAID, well, it makes me wonder who the real idiots are in this argument, present company excluded of course.

Would you care to make another one of your brilliant comments about my "inbreed looks" Kanamori, this might be the best arguement you have this time.

[Redleg]

No Xiahou , what is really disgusting is the idiots in power throwing their citizens lives away on a half baked idea .

Which is the way to state the issue, versus the method that Senator John Kerry and the method in which you elected to take with this comment.

And what else is there to say , it ain't smart to be in Iraq .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rWXr...elated&search=
Unless of course you think its clever to waste life and limb for some muppets who didn't do their homework .

[Kanamori]

How's that insulting? Never smart to be in a warzone...

Unless you intend something to be done that you consider more important than your life... but insults are made in the minds of people who take them...

Pretty much people such as Tribesman, Kanamori, Justiciar, and Kerry have a perception that only the stupid and foolish are currently residing in the military.

*Sigh* If you must play your games...

[Devastatin Dave]

Unless you intend something to be done that you consider more important than your life... but insults are made in the minds of people who take them...

So I guess you believe that the Veterans that Kerry called stupid are just being overly sensitive. Interesting.

[Kanamori]

So I guess you believe that the Veterans that Kerry called stupid are just being overly sensitive. Interesting.

Not quite... it only means that some people will be insulted while others will not be. A person can try to insult another person, but they could never necessarily insult another person. It depends on the ideals of the person whom the malice is directed at. For this case to be insult, the person must care that malice is directed at them, because they are obviously not necessarily stupid or uneducated. Whether or not those ideals are well founded depends on the beliefs of the individual, not me.

[Redleg]

Not quite... it only means that some people will be insulted while others will not be. A person can try to insult another person, but they could never necessarily insult another person. It depends on the ideals of the person whom the malice is directed at. For this case to be insult, the person must care that malice is directed at them, because they are obviously not necessarily stupid or uneducated. Whether or not those ideals are well founded depends on the beliefs of the individual, not me.

Well the actual text of the statement is this.

He then said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

It definitily seems that once again John Kerry was pandering to a specific population by feeding them the same ill informed information as always. I find his defense of the comment even more telling.

"I'm sick and tired of a bunch of despicable Republicans who will not debate real policy, who won't take responsibility for their own mistakes, standing up and trying to make other people the butt of those mistakes," he said. "It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did."

It seems Hyprocrit is indeed John Kerry's middle name.

[Del Arroyo]

I agree with what others have said-- this is just Kerry. I also think that Seamus F's clarification is very valid.

When I hear this it does not make me mad-- it only makes me shake my head and chuckle. Kerry is a guy who has demonstrated a consistent lack of situational awareness and failure to know his target audience. I voted for him in '04 but I doubt I would again.

[Justiciar]

Alright. Since that comment was deleted..

Dave, grow up. No one has said that. Redleg's comments were both understandable and justified. That was just ridiculous.

[Papewaio]

It seems Hyprocrit is indeed John Kerry's middle name.

I thought that was part and parcel of being a politician, changing ones middle name to Hyprocrit.

He then said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Not nice, nor accurate.

If I was his speech writer I would have gone down this track as my first draft:

"You know, education as a political leader, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework about all the possible scenarios in the short and long term, and you make an effort to be SMART that is to be Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Realistic and Tangible in goal settings, that means to begin with the end in mind, the exit from Iraq should have been outlined as such. Before going in we should have had a specific goal, that was measurable and this means quantifiable with dates attached, that was attainable, that was realistic and and that was tangible you can do well. The War on Terrorism is not measurable, Hearts and Minds is not Tangible. We needed to have a more realistic and attainable goal, a government that was stable, that was trending towards being more and more democratic in Iraq, this could have been measured in ballots, in free elections from local mayor to entire regions to the entire country, to a tangible self-sufficient local military. If you don't make this effort to have a SMART goal you have a fuzzy goal and you end up with a fuzzy result, in short you get stuck in Iraq."

"What we have to do is not cut and run. We have to take charge, create an exit strategy and work on it. If the strategy means we leave by the end of the year because we have met all the criteria so be it. If the strategy requires that we triple our commitment in numbers of troops on the ground and stay there for the next 15 years to meet our goal so be it. Whatever we do we need to know why, what, when, how we are going to seal the deal. So that we do not expend the lives of our youths in vain, we will win this through SMART leadership."

[Crazed Rabbit]

/\ I suppose it was only a matter of time (Justicar's pre-edit comment).

It appears people continue to have a problem seeing that people can be successful and want to join the military, they can actually believe in what we're doing in Iraq.

Guess what, guys! Despite your obvious contempt for the military, it isn't full of rejects and drop-outs, it isn't full of people who have no other options in life.

People can be smart and hard working and successful and want to join the military- that's why Kerry is so insulting. It's his base contempt and ignorance of the military.

CR