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Thread: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

  1. #31
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by Keba
    I dislike the whole one party member only system, but that seems to be gone. It was next to impossible to play a wizard. You need a fighter to guard you, but you also need a cleric to heal you, and, of course, a rogue is useful for opening doors and chests ... and you can only pick one.:
    Really? My favorite character for NWN1 was magic-user specialized in necromancy. The first few levels were challenging, but she was devastatingly powerful later on...
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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  2. #32
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    A character specialized in necromancy (Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus) can do some serious damage with spells like Wail of the Banshee. Gnomes make great illusionists because they already have Spell Focus: Illusion, freeing up a feat to spend on something like Toughness or armor proficiency feats for use with Still Spell.

    Lone-wolf Wizards and Sorcerers have a better time in NWN than they do with a group in a real D&D game.
    Out of spells? If you are playing D&D with a gaming group, you will have to sit out the entire session if resting is nowhere in sight (a constent annoyance in a Living Greyhawk game). If you are playing NWN, one hit of the R button and you are good to go again.
    Traps and locks? In D&D, you'll need either ranks in the cross-class skills of Disable Device and Open Locks or get yourself a Rogue. In NWN, Find Traps disables all traps except the quest ones (read: Isle of the Maker) in a huge radius, and Knock does the same for all locks.
    One hitpoint? In D&D, no amount of bandages will help you without resting without magical assistance. In NWN, use a healing kit and you are back to full instantly.
    Multiple enemies? Isaac's Greater Missile Swarm and Greater Sanctuary.

  3. #33
    Shark in training Member Keba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Really? My favorite character for NWN1 was magic-user specialized in necromancy. The first few levels were challenging, but she was devastatingly powerful later on...
    Oh, that doesn't mean I didn't play a mage, rogue or any class, really. I did, I just found it a lot less fun that it would have been with a party. That, and having only one person to converse with left out all the party banter that I came to love so much in Baldur's Gate 2.

    Now, if only the damned shops here get this, finally. Last time it took them two months.

  4. #34
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Hordes of the Underdark gave you an extra companion for a total of three party members, and countless mods give you multiple companions. It's amusing to see the witless and witty conversations and rebukes between your henchmen, especially between Deekin and both Arabeths.

  5. #35
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob the Insane
    not quite as epic as BG2...
    Quoting myself here but having played further through the campaign and it is pretty darn epic!

    Still not a broad as BG2 perhaps but plenty epic!!

  6. #36
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Really? My favorite character for NWN1 was magic-user specialized in necromancy. The first few levels were challenging, but she was devastatingly powerful later on...
    I’ve found the most satisfying character to play a Rogue, Shadowdancer, Weaponmaster.

    Starting off as a rogue is a bit tricky as you may need a henchman or do a lot of cheesy run away, and shoot type combat. This is countered by the fact that you get all the normal rogue goodies to include many skill points and the use magic item ability. The latter lets you cast spells from scrolls making you a de facto mage and later on allows you to use some nice equipment that you normally couldn’t use.

    The Shadowdancer can be a bit like Cheesedancer; if the enemy doesn’t have True Seeing you can run away, hide in plain sight, and sneak around to backstab ad infinitum.

    The Weaponmaster class allows you to emulate a fighter to give you massive weapon bonuses. A rapier is best for this class as you can use Weapon Finesse with it.

    I hope I can create a similar character in NWN2 as it’s the best I’ve found for soloing. Of course, that is, after the price drops considerably. I was able to get NWN diamond for $20.

    Oh yes...and this is coming from a former Paladin fanatic.


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    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
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    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  7. #37
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by GoreBag
    >:-(

    A friend of mine got the original the other day. There mere fact that he was third level by the time the tutorial had finished left me totally disheartened.
    What's the problem? All I want is to be level 40 with 1000 hit points.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  8. #38

    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Any update on a patch? I'm waiting for one before I take the plunge. The Bioware forums are running at the speed of an arthritic asmatic snail in superglue, so checking there isn't proving terribly successful.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  9. #39
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
    Any update on a patch?
    There's been two already and a 1.03 beta is available, although I am not bothering with it now. I suspect it will be like NWN1 - almost continual patches, to incrementally add new stuff.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Got it when it came out although I've had very little time to play. Enjoying going through with Hidalgo, my boastful and none-too-bright swashbuckling duellist. He certainly looks the part in his floppy hat.
    Vignettes: England, France and the Holy Roman Empire.

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  11. #41
    Gangrenous Member Justiciar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    I've got to say.. I'm really not very fond of this game at all. I can't put my finger on it, but it just feels like a steaming pile of poo.
    When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman? From the beginning all men by nature were created alike, and our bondage or servitude came in by the unjust oppression of naughty men. For if God would have had any bondsmen from the beginning, he would have appointed who should be bound, and who free. And therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come, appointed to us by God, in which ye may (if ye will) cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty. - John Ball

  12. #42
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by Justiciar
    I've got to say.. I'm really not very fond of this game at all. I can't put my finger on it, but it just feels like a steaming pile of poo.
    What other RPGs do you like/dislike ?
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  13. #43
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    I just tried the beta patch, and my framerate just skyrocketed! It's definitely an improvement

  14. #44

    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Ah, might be time to give it a go then.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  15. #45
    Senior Member Senior Member Reenk Roink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Here's the lowdown on everything the patch fixes...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    New Features

    General
    • Weapon combos in hotbar: Added the ability to set up dual weapon, weapon & shield, or weapon & torch combos in the hotbar. Clicking the hotbar button for a weapon you already have equipped will unequip it.

    • Camera Changes: We’ve made a series of camera changes to this version:
    o New options for adjusting sensitivity for controlling the camera by keyboard, mouse, and edge of screen.
    o Chase Cam adjusted to work more like NWN1.
    o In free cam mode, the arrow keys now pan the camera, and holding down CTRL will zoom and yaw the camera.
    o Added bindable keyboard key for mouse look / camera control. This mimics functionality of pressing down the middle mouse button for those without a middle mouse button.

    • Graphics Optimizations: A number of new graphics optimizations have been added:
    o Anti-Aliasing Support: Anti-aliasing is now supported and can be enabled in the Options Menu. Please note: This could significantly affect frame rate, depending on your hardware.
    o Shadow Rendering: Shadow rendering speed has been improved.
    o Tree Rendering: Speed improvements to the rendering of trees.
    o Water Rendering: Speed improvements to how water is rendered by the engine.

    • New Options:
    o Buy/Sell Confirmation: You can now turn off the buy/sell confirmation dialog.
    o Options menu has been reorganized to support many new camera control options.
    o You can now change keybindings in game.

    • Database Support:
    o The database script functions from NWN1 have been re-enabled. They are now significantly faster in many cases.

    Multiplayer
    • Improved /t style chat.

    DM Client
    • Added initial support for hotbar buttons and context menus.
    • Added in party bar. It will only list the connected players in the game and not who is in your faction.
    • You can now hover over menu items in the Chooser instead of having to click on them first.
    • “Very Easy” difficulty option has been restored.
    • The DM chat channel is once again available via the /dm prefix.

    Scripting
    • EffectWildshape() – New function for Wildshape effect.
    • GetEncumbranceState () - Added script function to get the encumbrance state of a given player
    • GetPlayerCreatureExamineTarget() - Added script function to get the current creature examine target for a player
    • PackCampaignDatabase() – A new database feature to NWN2, this will pack the campaign database and purge deleted records from a database.
    • GetPlayerTargetObject() – New script function to get the current selected target object for a given player.
    • UnlinkDoor() – New script command to turn an area transition door into a normal door.
    • Database support has been added, including new PackCampaignDatabase() function.

    Toolset
    • Added a load screen image previewer.
    • Added item icon previewer.
    • Area names and tags now default to the area’s file name for new areas.
    • The spell tab now shows multiple instances of spells, so creatures can have multiple instances of a spell with different metamagic types.
    • Right-clicking while placing tiles now rotates the tile.
    • The first column and row of the 2DA viewer are now pinned, making it easier to use.
    • Changes on item blueprints will now be propagated to items in creature or placeable inventories, or that are equipped on creatures.
    • Added new option to the File menu that allows the user to compile only currently open scripts.
    • There is a new panel in the script editor that allows the user to insert scripts from the NWN2ToolsetTemplates folder into the current script.
    • Script search functionality changed to bring up all results in one result window and the user can double-click to open up that search result.
    • Item cost calculations added to the item properties.
    • New visual style.
    • Doors now have a flag that allows them to render an invisible area transition (aka an invisible "black door.") This is adjustable in the toolset. This is to address concerns with the “black area” behind open doors and how silly it looked on open gates in the middle of Neverwinter, etc.
    • When users enter a string ref, they can also check a box to say that the string ref is from the custom file and the string returned will be from that file instead of the main .tlk table.
    • Feminine versions of strings are now editable.
    • Hex values can now be used as string references within 2DAs. This makes it easier to use custom TLK files with 2DAs.
    • The script editor runs faster and uses less memory.

    Bug Fixes

    General
    • Animal Companions, Familiars, and Summoned Creatures are now unsummoned when a roster member is being despawned. This will address problems where companions can become familiars on transitions.
    • Some minor adjustments to the pathing system to prevent characters from being put into illegal areas.
    • Split out Armored Caster feat into class specific feats for Bards and Warlocks to properly apply spell failure percentages. This will allow users who add new classes to give them specific armored casting ability easily.
    • Some minor fixes to drop shadow rendering.
    • The debug DirectX check has been removed – some users had problems running the game, even without the DirectX SDK being installed.
    • The game would crash when a module with more than 16,000 objects was loaded.
    • Fixed a memory leak related to grass that would occur in certain areas.

    Multiplayer
    • Fixed issue when a player was resurrected by another player, the “respawn” button would stay up on their screen, and could be used to restore life and remove effects.

    DM Client
    • Added larger “+” buttons for the Chooser and Creator to make them easier to click on.
    • Fixed some issues with keymapping.
    • Player list is used instead of the party list when displaying party members on the minimap and areamap.
    • DM’s can now area transition while possessing something and the entire faction doesn’t come with them.
    • Fixed issue with trying to possess a creature in a different area than the one the DM is currently standing in.
    • Fixed mouse action target for Dungeon Masters, so they don't start conversations with everyone. Also fixed highlight, so they can't always highlight themselves.
    • DM can now move around while game is paused.
    • Moved feats granted to a DM character from being hard-coded to a new flag in the feat.2da, "DMFeat". If it's marked as 0, the DM doesn't get it; as 1, he does.
    • NWN database bug: Variables names are now properly truncated to 32 characters in all cases.

    Effects/Spells
    • If weapon trails are disabled in the options menu, hit and parry visuals are disabled as well.
    • Character validation was not taking Spellcasting Prodigy into account for a number of spells wizards learn at first level.
    • You no longer get max spells after unequipping an ability boost item, then an extra spell slot item. Also, changed extra spell slot items so that they only grant extra spell slots if you are capable of casting spells of that level.
    • Neutralize Poison should not remove Disease and Ability Decrease effects.
    • Lowered Frenzy damage to 6 per round.
    • You can no longer recover traps with DC 20 or higher if you do not have the Trapfinding feat. If you try to disarm or recover a DC 20+ trap without Trapfinding, you will receive feedback that success is never possible; it is still possible to suffer a critical failure and have the trap go off on you. You can still flag, examine, and set a trap of any DC without Trapfinding; you can also always disarm or recover a trap you set yourself.
    • EffectShareDamage() was not actually applying damage to the caster.
    • Some fixes to global scripts on how spells affect NPCs, etc., in Hardcore mode.
    • Finger of Death affects players in multiplayer mode now.
    • Heal spells no longer call a touch attack when cast on undead.
    • The Mass Inflict Line of spells now properly call a will save instead of a Fort save.
    • The Mass Inflict Line of spells have now been updated to have the same behavior as Mass Inflict Light Wounds in regards to target discrimination and undead.
    • Mass Inflict Light Wounds no longer harms hostile undead. Neither will it heal them. The healing effect is only applied to friendly undead.
    • Casting Mage Armor on a character who already has Improved Mage Armor applied will no longer remove the stronger spell.
    • Improved Mage Armor now correctly provides +6 AC rather than +8.
    • The duration on Tymora’s Smile has been corrected.
    • The spells Foundation of Stone, Body of Sun, Jagged Tooth, Tortoise Shell, Swamp Lung, Storm Avatar, and Nature's Avatar now properly apply their metamagic abilities.
    • Tymora's Smile is now self-cast only.
    • Crafting wands, potions, and scrolls was not working for many spells. All spells should now craft properly.
    • Soothing Light will now auto-cast when selected.
    • Guarding the Lord will now only target other creatures.
    • Warlock Darkness now has the same targeting UI as arcane Darkness.
    • Mass Heal now has a range of "close."
    • The Mass Cure line of spells now uniformly have a range of "close."
    • Old behavior for Bigby's 3 was causing some creatures to become paralyzed rather than immobilized in order to simulate grappling. This allowed them a chance to break out on a will save. The paralysis effect has been replaced with an immobilization effect.
    • Prismatic Spray was always petrifying, rather than applying a random effect. This is fixed.
    • Web and Greater Shadow Conjuration/Web now have the same targeting UI.
    • Greater Fireburst will no longer damage the caster on hardcore difficulty.
    • Fireburst will no longer harm the caster.
    • Iron Horn now properly uses a cone shape instead of a sphere.
    • Foundation of stone was calculating its duration in seconds rather than rounds. This has been fixed.
    • Magic Fang and Greater Magic Fang now can be applied to any animal, beast, or vermin. This includes wildshaped druids.
    • Missile Storm will no longer target friendlies on hardcore mode.
    • Bombardment now knocks down targets on a failed save.
    • Blade Barrier now plays a species specific blood spray when it damages a target.
    • Destruction now checks the target for death immunity.

    Items
    • Changed Holy Avenger bonus damage from 1d6 to 2d6 vs. evil.

    Scripting
    • AttemptToDisarmTrap() - Returns FALSE if character cannot path to trap instead of assuming they don't have the skill points to do so.
    • GetArmorRank - Returns whether an equipped item is ARMOR_RANK_NONE, _LIGHT, _MEDIUM, or _HEAVY
    • GetSpellLevel() wasn’t taking cleric domains into account. This has been fixed.
    • GetWeaponType() – Lets Keen Edge spell also affect piercing weapons.
    • TalentSpellFilter() – This has been standardized in regards to Keen Edge and Weapon of Impact.
    • Added script command gr_character_xml run from console that will export character data in XML format to the log.
    • Fixed X2_inc_switches constant that was causing the override spellscript and the tagbased script prefix to overwrite each other.
    • NPC casters can no longer affect themselves with AOE spells in Hardcore+ difficulty
    • NPCs of non-opposed factions can no longer affect each other with AOE spells in Hardcore+ difficulty
    • Added additional effects and fixed parameter listing for ga_effect.
    Crafting
    • 'Medalion of Thought' recipe now gives that item instead of the 'Talisman of Pure Evil'
    • The 'Armor of Arrow Deflection' recipe now gives the correct effect and not 'Spell Specialization: Abjuration' on the Armor enchanted
    • 'Invulnerable Armor' recipe now give Damage Reduction Effect
    • 'Posion Weapon' recipe now give poison effect
    • The 'Armor of Spell Resistance' recipes now gives spell resistance effect.
    • Crafted wands, and scrolls now give the correct class restrictions based on class spell lists.
    • Wands and potions now take into account the class and level of the caster for determining if the max spell level is surpasses instead of using the innate level of a spell.
    • removed item cast at item restriction for spell storing devices (wands, potions, scrolls)
    • Reduced cost of 0 level spells for wands, potions, and scrolls by half
    • Added warlock darkness crafting recipes for Gold Filigree Charm and Infernal Focus
    • Number of charges for newly crafted wand now defaults to 50.

    Interface
    • Fixed a bug where screen edge turning was frame rate dependent, making the camera behave differently based on graphics settings or area.
    • Fixed a few minor bugs with mouse selection.
    • Save game name will now show up properly when overwriting savegames.
    • Fixed issue where gaining bonus feats from items were not causing a refresh of the character sheet.
    • The character ‘ø’ has been added to our fonts.
    • Context Menu Delay slider and Weapon trail Option are now properly saved and read in correctly.
    • You can no longer resize on of the multiplayer chat windows offscreen.
    • You can now click past feat selection if you have no feats to select. You lose that feat pick permanently. This was added so characters with low stats in core abilities could process through level up.

    Toolset
    • Turning off fog along with the “use area far plane” option now works correctly, and will render the area up to the far plane specified in the Graphics section of the Options screen.
    • Oriented billboards in visual effects will now render correctly in the toolset.
    • Weapon scaling now looks correct in the toolset.
    • Fixed a bug with the script and conversation search windows stealing focus.
    • Fixed a bug with changes to spells not getting saved if the active tab was changed before changes were applied.
    • Level 9 spells are now saved correctly for creatures.
    • Font preferences are now saved correctly.
    • Fixed a bug where docking windows would snap closed if a drop-down box was used while they were shown.
    • Reduction in memory pre-allocation by half. This should address some customer reported issues with the toolset crashing on load.
    • Some improvements to script editor speed and reductions in memory usage.
    • Fixed a bug where placed instances of stores weren't copying the "infinite" flag for items.
    • Fixed memory leak when erasing grass.
    • Fixed issue for non-English versions where some required toolset preferences were not being loaded.
    • Module variables are now displayed under the “Scripts” category.
    • Fixed bug where turning off light spheres would turn off sound spheres.
    • Focus wouldn’t change properly when clicking on the propertygrid or the blueprint view. Fixed.
    • Fixed crash when trying to modify prefabs in the universal blueprint changer.
    • Fix for an exception that could be thrown if a journal was modified from code (like a plugin.)
    • Fixed inability to modify camera orientation, Orientation has been re-enabled.
    • Some fixes to toolset memory management to improve stability.
    • Floating windows that are offscreen will be moved back onscreen on startup.
    • Newly-created blueprints will have their template property set to the same name as the blueprint.
    • Fixed a bug where creating new item blueprints, assigning them to a creature or placeable, and then immediately placing the creature or placeable would result in the item having incorrect properties.
    • Fixed a bug in the script editor where certain NWN-specific data types would confuse the parameter info display.
    • Using the “Find All” button in the script search window now displays all results in a popup window. Users can select the matching script/line they want to view.
    • An estimated value for the cost of an item (before appraise rolls etc) has been added to the properties of items.
    • Updated look and feel of the tab controls.
    • Fixed a bug with the “Save” button in the world map editor. It will no longer corrupt map images.


    The folks at Obsidian addressed every major issue with the game.

    I'm going to hold off downloading the beta and wait for the official patch, as I'm not having the problems like others, but if they worry you, give it a go!

  16. #46
    Gangrenous Member Justiciar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by doc_bean
    What other RPGs do you like/dislike ?
    Well that's the odd thing.. I loved Baldurs Gate 1 & 2, found Icewind Dale to be brilliant, and even enjoyed NWN1. All of which had a lot in common with NWN2. But for some reason it just doesn't have the same kind of feel that those games had. Just feels like bland AD&D, jam-packed with cliches. Well.. I say that, but I haven't played the single player game at any great length. Nor do I intend to.
    When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman? From the beginning all men by nature were created alike, and our bondage or servitude came in by the unjust oppression of naughty men. For if God would have had any bondsmen from the beginning, he would have appointed who should be bound, and who free. And therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come, appointed to us by God, in which ye may (if ye will) cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty. - John Ball

  17. #47

    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Anyone want to help a frog build a plan for her character? The UK manual is completely useless, a flimsy little pamphlet which tells you nothing about the character stats, classes, feats and whathaveyou. There's no link to a PDF manual in the NWN2 start menu folder either. I don't even know what classes and so on are in the game. Not impressed.

    I want a character who is similar to one I built in Baldur's Gate 2 (kensai/sorcerer) or to the one I had in the original NWN (I can't remember what he was! Think shiny knight in armour with the ability to cast fireballs; he had little devil-like wings too for some reason), or even to my character in KotOR (jedi who fights with his lightsabre for most of the time but wades in and blasts with the force in tough battles).

    I want a character who:
    - Is human! I am not going to be some weird freak. I hate elves.
    - Is of one of the good alignments.
    - Uses a sword. Vital, this. A nice longsword or katana or something, not a silly rapier. Possibly paired with a shield, maybe, if he's not using a two-handed weapon.
    - Has a good amount of HPs and will be able to survive quite easily.
    - Perhaps wears nice shiny armour, like plate. However, if he's got enough protection without armour then I'll be happy without it as long as there's something I can make the character wear to look vaguely decent. I'm not wandering around looking like some farmer or generic NPC.
    - Can fight respectably, handling most combat situations through the infinitely renewable free resource of Stabbing Things.
    - Can break out some hefty magic in dire situations. By magic I mean big fireballs of doom, not all this turn undead rubbish. Buffing spells are acceptable as an additional line to damaging spells, as are enemy nerfing ones.
    - Can do a bit of healing, perhaps.

    I need to know everything - classes, starting stats, when to swap classes for best benefit, which skills, feats and traits are good and which should be avoided, etc - because the documentation has left me entirely blind, and because I only dabble with AD&D when there's a good PC game which uses it. The last I played with this specific system was a couple of years ago. I know it's very easy to hamstring your character by doing something simple, such as swapping classes one level to late. I want to start this character and go right through to the end of the game with him on my first go. No restarting because he's not good enough, or I made a mistake by picking skill X not skill Y.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by frogbeastegg; 11-26-2006 at 11:52.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  18. #48
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    If you want just a sword monkey in heavy plate, I'd go with either a fighter or a paladin. The paladin can cast a few spells later on, and has access to Cure Disease, and immunity to fear and disease.

    Unfortunately, you also want someone with lows of magic, and not the clerical kind either. So I'd take one level of paladin and then advance in sorcerer (both classes make extensive use of Charisma), so not only do you have a sword and armor, you can cast your spells you want. Unfortunately, not only are you one level behind pure sorcerers, you'll need the Still Spell metamagic feat to be able to cast in armor without your spells miscasting due to the arcane armor penalty. This means that a third level fireball will need to be prepared as a fourth level spell, increasing the level you have access to it from 5 (for third level spells) to 7 (for fourth level spells), AND you still have that paladin level tacked on so you will have to have a total of 8 class levels.

    However, clerics are not the happy-happy heal-heal casters they were in Baldur's Gate and other games. Clerics in NWN can hold their own with spells, AND can cast them with no armor penalty (being divine, not arcane). Most of your first and second level spells will be buffs (which, because you are a cleric, can be converted to heal spells on the fly without praying for them), which is not a bad thing, actually. Grab yourself the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat so you can wield the big toys, grab the Strength Domain to buff yourself up in the heat of battle, and then take Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance as buff spells to make yourself more powerful than a fighter equal to your level. Once you hit a certain level, you will have access to excellent offensive spells such as flamestrike. If you want to use a sword and a shield, get Monkey Grip as a feat so you can wield that greatsword or greataxe in one hand and a shield in another (or, even better, two greatswords if you have the duel-wielding feats)

    Being Human, you get a free feat automatically, so I suggest you put that into Luck Of Heros. Unlike the PnP version, LoH gives you not only +1 to all saves, but +1 to your armor class. Your second feat is negotiable, but I primarily take Dodge for an extra +1 armor class.

    If you want to go cleric, you stats should look similar to this:

    Str: 12 or above (for melee potential)
    Dex: 13 (in full plate, the max dex bonus you can get is only +1, and you can get Dodge at 13 dex)
    Con: 10 or above (again, for melee potential)
    Int: 12 or above (clerics get lousy skill points, intelligence will help offset this)
    Wis: 16 (you will be increasing this as you go along, so 16 is really all you need starting out)
    Cha: 12 or above (for turn undead and diplomacy)

    For skills, diplomacy and lore is a must. Being able to talk your way out of a fight, and being able to identify that uber magic item you just found are vital.
    Healing is optional, but if you are going cleric, you have no need of this.
    Two cross-class skills I definately would pick up are Use Magic Device (to wield all the magic items you cant use and cast from arcane scrolls like FIREBALL) and Tumble. Every five ranks in tumble you buy, you gain another +1 to your armor class.
    Spellcraft is a good skill to have if you are mindful of enemy spellcasters. It will boost your saving throws against magic in the same way tumble boosts your armor class, every five ranks.

  19. #49
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Frogbeastegg: the way DnD works in 3rd edition, it is rather hard to get a decent character who can wield a sword and throw out fireballs in a pinch. The whole system is geared up around class specialisation, with a party making sure all the bases are covered. If you want a fighter-mage type, you are better off with Morrowind/Oblivion.[1]

    That said, the compensation of NWN2 is that you do have a semi-decent sized party this time round. You have your character plus 3 others, any of which you can instantly jump into to micromanage - just like KOTOR, which IIRC, you have played. So my advice based on what you say, would be to go for the fighter or paladin that Kek mentioned and let one of your party members break out the fireballs when needed. (By the same logic, your other two members should ideally be a cleric and a thief, to make sure all bases are covered). I'm undecided what character to go for but may go for a fighter-paladin dual class, which should probably get most of the pally's advantages while getting a few more fighter feats and giving me a few more choices on level up.

    However, if you do want to persist with the fighter-mage idea, you might check out the eldritch knight. Or indeed, the red dragon disciple. These are prestige classes that seem to combine melee and magic. (The eldritch kngiht explicitly; the RDD gets amazing stats bonuses that really help in combat.) Note that with high dexterity and magic armour (plus some of the protections like stone skin etc), you can get a decent armour class and defensive ability even without the full plate etc.

    One other thought - you could check out a druid. They are beefier than a mage, but have a decent amount of offensive magic.

    The character creation process in NWN2 is very informative, BTW.

    There's also a very nice excel character builder you could try - it's the CharacterBuildCalculator for NWN2 (CBC2), made by Kamiryn:

    http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view...er.Detail&id=9

    I also found the gamespot guide Part I excellent - really good on how to buff up your party.


    [1]The reason why the fighter-mage idea is not great in 3rd ed, is that the number of experience points you need to go up a level depends on your character level, not your class level. So a level 19 mage can choose whether to have a level 1 fighter's powers as well or get a the 20th level of mage. With mages, at each level, the mage gets more and more powerful - the higher level spells are great and you get more lower level spells too. So typically, you would rather have more of those cool spells than a few hit points. And a 10 fighter-10 mage would normally get whooped by either a 20 level fighter or a 20 level mage.

    The other perennial problem is penalties for casting magic in armour. Do you really want to be stripping off your plate in a dungeon, just because you might fancy flinging a fireball?

    Plus mages have really lousy to hit chances.

  20. #50
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    I have yet to see anyone go for full Fighter. Too many feats. That's one of the main turnoffs of the Fighter in the original NWN. Unless you are going for Weapons Master and need all those combat feats, going even 10 levels of Fighter is a waste for the sole reason that you will not be using all those combat feats you gain. More than likely, you will only be using a few (read: Improved Knockdown) exclusively and leaving the rest behind. In the PnP version, a high level Fighter can deal some serious damage using their feats tactically, but other than the feats, there is no additional benefit to increasing your level in Fighter except for the high Base Attack Bonus and hit points. And even then it's a good thing to go into something else like Rogue (for Sneak Attack and skills), Paladin (for immunities), or Ranger (for those who like duel-wielding).

    Druids are a decent choice for a mix of melee/magic, but they suffer in that they have a lack of choice in armor and weapons selection, whereas Clerics can wear full plate from level 1. They do, however, recieve an animal companion at level 1, which is a very good thing for Druids who are thinking of going into Rogue (read: Sneak Attack). Once they hit level 5, however, they stop being the bastard child of the party and start becoming tanks thanks to Wild Shape. A pure Druid at level 20 is an army all herself.

    In my personal opinion, I absolutely love my Weapons Master. I am unsure if the benefits of Keen stacks with Improved Critical in NWN2 (it was changed in 3.5 to not stack), but Weapons Master is still a force to behold. 6 levels of Fighter to gain the required feats with a focus in scythes. Thanks to NWN2, scythes are no longer exotic weapons, and thus no longer need an extra feat to specialize in. A 6th level Fighter / 7th level Weapons Master can turn the critical range of the scythe from x4 into 17-20/x5 (1 for Improved Critical or Keen, 2 for 7th lvl Weapons Master). If Improved Crit does stack with Keen, it further lowers the crit range to 16-20. But by far my favorite weapon for Weapons Master is the Greatsword. At 6lvl/7lvl, this weapon goes from 19-20/x2 to 15-20/x3 without stacking Imp Crit and Keen, and 13-20/x3 with. Combine that with Monkey Grip and duel wielding, and you have a lot of damage potential right there.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Ah - red dragon disciple! That's what my Hordes of Underdark character ended up as, hence the little wings. He wore full red plate armour, a steel bucket helm trimmed with red, wielded a longsword which had red hilt furniture for some reason, and a shield of some sort. Not only did he look rather awesome, he slaughtered everything and anything the expansion threw at me with ease with only Deekin for back up. Most enjoyable character I've taken through a AD&D game. IIRC he didn't have to take his armour off to cast either ... think it was a matter of picking spells carefully, or having a feat to enable it, or something. If it were possible to rebuilt this character I’d love to use it again in NWN2. Anyone got any guesses as to how I managed it?

    Having given it a day's thought I have decided the notion of being a cleric isn't as rancid as it was with the old rules. If I can't find anything which appeals more I'll try it; it doesn't sound bad by any means, only it lacks a certain ... spark. How easy is it to get a cleric wielding a sword? In the old games they simply couldn't, and the Gamespot guide says they can't use most bladed weapons. Also, what about prestige classes and potential good dual class options? :wishes once more that she had some decent documentation for the game!:

    Druid? :shivers: The idea of being a tree-hugging hippie who wibbles on about nature being wonderful while morphing into bears and tangling people up with vines is not appealing. I'd rather be an elf, heck even an elven ranger, than a druid.



    the way DnD works in 3rd edition, it is rather hard to get a decent character who can wield a sword and throw out fireballs in a pinch. The whole system is geared up around class specialisation, with a party making sure all the bases are covered.
    I heard that the 3rd edition rules were there to let you create the kind of character you wanted, without the rigid and annoying confines of the older rulesets. So good mages in armour were meant to be do-able.

    As for Oblivion, I prefer something with a good story. Morrowind was fine for a dabble, but ultimately it couldn't hold my interest.

    I played - and loved - KOTOR. Went through it start to finish 3 times at least. Didn't finish the second one though; too buggy, too unfinished, and the plot suffered badly from the game being rushed out the doors. One of the most disappointing games I've ever played.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  22. #52
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Yes, 3rd edition and 3.5 rules allow your mage to wear full plate and still cast spells, as well as your cleric to wield anything with a blade. The problem is that these benefits are offset with penalties. Your arcane mage in full plate is going to receive a MINIMUM of a 45% chance to fizzle any spell she casts while in full plate (lighter armors = less penalty). Moreso if she uses a shield. And your cleric wielding a greatsword? She'll have a -4 penalty to hit because she isnt proficient in it.

    In NWN, however, things are slightly different. In this case, you cant wear armor or use weapons you are not proficient in. Mages cannot wear full plate without having to take all three armor proficiency feats (Light, then Medium, then Heavy, plus Shields if you want to wear one) or one level of Fighter/Paladin. Your cleric cannot wield that greatsword without taking the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat or one level of Fighter/Paladin/Ranger/Barbarian.

    However, for the cleric it is easy enough to do that since humans get a free feat at first level. Put that feat into Martial Weapon Proficiency and you'll be able to use any non-exotic weapon in the game. For a mage, take Silent Spell feat and you'll be able to bypass the miscast penalty.
    Last edited by Kekvit Irae; 11-27-2006 at 22:56.

  23. #53
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
    Ah - red dragon disciple! That's what my Hordes of Underdark character ended up as, hence the little wings. ....If it were possible to rebuilt this character I’d love to use it again in NWN2.
    To be honest, if you have played through HoTU, you know 99% of what you need to build a good character. Both NWN and NWN2 were 3ed DnD - IIRC, what's changed is the move from 3.0 to 3.5, which seems a rather minimal revision; plus NWN2 has some of the character creation stuff introduced in Icewind Dale 2 (sub-races). I suspect you could rebuild your character, although there is a level 20 cap to contend with.

    Having given it a day's thought I have decided the notion of being a cleric isn't as rancid as it was with the old rules.
    I was surfing Bioware's forums today and someone was arguing that clerics were the uber class in 3.0. No one seemed to seriously dispute the point.

    Druid? :shivers: The idea of being a tree-hugging hippie who wibbles on about nature being wonderful while morphing into bears and tangling people up with vines is not appealing. I'd rather be an elf, heck even an elven ranger, than a druid.
    So you will be glad to hear the romantic interest for males is apparently an elven druid. Maybe you want to rebuild your RDD character as a female this time round?

    I played - and loved - KOTOR. Went through it start to finish 3 times at least. Didn't finish the second one though; too buggy, too unfinished, and the plot suffered badly from the game being rushed out the doors. One of the most disappointing games I've ever played.
    KOTOR was great. Although I liked KOTOR2 equally. At what point did you give up on it? I actually liked the end - although clearly rushed, it had quite an impact on me. Partly this was emotional - defeating the main enemy at the end was very sad, unlike the triumphant end to KOTOR1. And partly, it was intellectual - because the story was rather rushed and incomplete, and you did not get to see all of it due to the influence system, it preyed on my mind for a few days. Sometimes the absence of closure is good.

  24. #54
    Member Member Zenicetus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21
    To be honest, if you have played through HoTU, you know 99% of what you need to build a good character. Both NWN and NWN2 were 3ed DnD - IIRC, what's changed is the move from 3.0 to 3.5, which seems a rather minimal revision; plus NWN2 has some of the character creation stuff introduced in Icewind Dale 2 (sub-races). I suspect you could rebuild your character, although there is a level 20 cap to contend with.
    Right... the level cap and design of the initial campaign may argue against aiming for something like the Red Dragon Disciple. HOTU started you out at a higher level and then got into epic levels, didn't it? So you could play longer with those higher-end classes.

    If the initial campaign in NWN2 is like the first one in NWN, starting at level one (I don't know... I haven't bought it yet), then it would be better to pick a basic class you'll be happy with right away, instead of something you can just begin to get a taste of, when the campaign ends. It sounds like Froggy might like Cleric for this.

    Or (as mentioned above), just pick the plate-armored fighter you like, and use a full mage in your party for nuking, since the game is oriented towards a balanced party. You don't have to do everything yourself.
    Feaw is a weapon.... wise genewuhs use weuuhw! -- Jebe the Tyrant

  25. #55
    Robot Unicorn Member Kekvit Irae's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    The game starts you out at first level, but it gives you enough experience for second level before the tutorial ends. You'll still get the second level if you skip the tutorial, but you miss out on trying for a +1 Cloak of Charisma.

  26. #56
    Member Member Yun Dog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    you could always try monk for a few levels (if your looking for a kensai type dude) - then you could pick up some druid or sorc for your spell casting - then you could do the old shapeshifting monk build that was popular in 1

    one of my faves was a bard/fighter/arcane archer - basically a bow user that could sings songs to inspire her party
    Quote Originally Posted by pevergreen View Post
    its pevergeren.

  27. #57
    Shark in training Member Keba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Well, I got NWN2 last week ... and, after a lot of hours spent, I managed to finish the game.

    I was kind of appaled that the ultimate sword in the game was weaker than a random hammer I picked up in some ruin ... and I found the ending to be a bit ... well, a bit ... unsatisfying.

    Does picking the thieves guild when one comes to Neverwinter over the Guard actually affect the rest of the game as much or not? I haven't tried that yet since my character happened to be a LG Aasimar Paladin/Crusader (with levels of Neverwinter Nine added later). Which, while satisfying, made it damned difficult to finish the game, since he had a habit of dying ... a lot, most of the time.
    Last edited by Keba; 11-28-2006 at 13:39.

  28. #58
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae
    I have yet to see anyone go for full Fighter. Too many feats. That's one of the main turnoffs of the Fighter in the original NWN. Unless you are going for Weapons Master and need all those combat feats, going even 10 levels of Fighter is a waste for the sole reason that you will not be using all those combat feats you gain.
    Hey, I'm a freak then, 'cause for some reason I always wind up playing a dwarven weaponmaster. Couldn't begin to say why. There's just something amusing about a bulldog-type character with full plate and a two-handed sword. It soothes my soul.

    And perhaps as a tall guy I'm secretly drawn to the idea of being squat and deadly. It's a possibility. Who cares if it's leet and uber? I like my fighters.

  29. #59

    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    Quote Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae
    [Kek on clerics and stuff, with imput from others]
    Oh, go on then. I'll give a cleric a go.

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21
    To be honest, if you have played through HoTU, you know 99% of what you need to build a good character.
    It was two years ago, and I got most of the character build from the internet, including details like which levels I should swap classes.

    So you will be glad to hear the romantic interest for males is apparently an elven druid. Maybe you want to rebuild your RDD character as a female this time round?
    Noooooooo! Whatever happened to having several potential partners to pick from?

    :froggy glowers: Now I have to wander through 40+hours of game staring at some stupid improbably proportioned female in ridiculous metal bikini 'armour'. :froggy glowers more: Gah! I hate that; it's why I always play as a male character.

    Or I skip the romance. Always feels a bit weird romancing a female character anyway. :sigh: But that would mean missing out on what is usually one of the better subplots and bits of characterisation ...

    At what point did you give up on it?
    Very close to the end. It kept glitching, the story had gone to wacko land, and I decided that I'd stopped enjoying the game around the half way mark and was liking it less with each play session, so I'd cut my losses and stop. A shame - I really liked the beginning, and the early parts of the mid-game. I played the xbox version, which made the bugs and glitches unforgivable – also unfixable. The real killer was the way the plot got butchered: bits missing, bits unfinished, bits crammed in to paper over the cracks the rest had made. The final effect made me feel as if I were reading a book, the first 100 pages of which were bound correctly, and the remaining 300 had been thrown in the air and stuffed in place in random order with every fifth random page chucked in the bin.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  30. #60
    Member Member Avicenna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 released

    I need a bit of education... I got NWN1 along with SoU a while ago, but I'm really confused about the difficulty. I think I'm playing on normal, and having a hard time, doing far far worse than my henchman (the huge orc-human in Neverwinter) with lower damage, lower defence and lower HP. I'm two levels higher, as well. Is an archer supposed to be incredibly weak? I got completely destroyed by the first thing I met in Chapter 2 of the SoU expansion.. AFTER cheating all the way to level 20 ( ) and getting the best possible equipment from chapter 1 and the intermission (?). I think I did 0 damage.

    Anyway, Froggie, you've done a good job in resparking the interest in the Red Dragon Disciple, and I just spent over an hour looking at reviews and all about HotU and NWN 2, and HotU is probably not for sale anywhere here anymore.




    Now all I want is this massive towering Red Dragon Disciple with a huge flaming battleaxe.
    Last edited by Avicenna; 11-28-2006 at 22:32.
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