Tuesday's Report from Brisbane

[Epistolary Richard]

This time I’m focusing on modding ‘straight out of the box’ – a few of the things that you can do as soon as you’ve installed the game (presuming that you didn’t actually want to have a go at it first!)



The Battle Editor

This is a feature many of you will be familiar with from Rome, and it’s good to see that it’s still included.

The Battle Editor allows you to create your own Historical Battles. It allows you to choose a battlemap tile, alter the terrain, buildings and vegetation on it, deploy each side’s forces and set time, weather and victory conditions. We also discovered that the battlemaps we created with it can also be re-integrated into the campaign game as custom tiles.



How to activate the Battle Editor

As before with Rome, the Battle Editor needs to be activated before it can be accessed. This is done by adding two new lines to the medieval2.preference.cfg file

[features]
editor = true

With these lines in – when you launch the game, click on Options and the Battle Editor will appear.




Clicking on that will take you through to:



Do note the warning – just as with Rome at this time the Battle Editor is an internal tool CA created which they’ve kindly given us access to in order to allow us to make our mods. It requires steps be taken in a certain order to work and requires some dedication to become comfortable with. It says for Advanced Users for a reason!

You can either load a Battle already created or you can create a new one by choosing the tile you want to base it on and clicking on Next. This takes you through to the Battle Editor itself:



This will all look very familiar to users of the Rome Battle Editor so I’ll just highlight a few of the options and the differences.

Firstly, now when you place a building it actually attaches the real structure to the cursor so you can see how it will look in the terrain before you place it (in Rome it only appeared as green squares before you placed it). On the map above, I’ve now placed a monastery down the slope:



The ground is now more independent of the buildings – meaning that you can adjust the ground level without moving the height of the building at the same time. This makes it a lot easier to integrate the buildings into the terrain than in Rome, as you can see here as I smooth out the bumps.




Hit Control + F5 with the texture tool and you’ll see something like the below. Red denotes impassible terrain, yellow terrain where movement penalties apply and green where movement is unrestricted. These are all definable in descr_pathfinding where it can be individually adjusted for infantry, cavalry, elephants and different type of siege weapons.




You can now also add a variety of bridges to the map:



Then it’s just a matter of adding the factions who will be fighting there, their deployment zones, their units and victory conditions:



And there you have a whole new historical battle!




As with Rome, you can then go into the text files the Battle Editor creates, such as the descr_battle file and tweak units and characters and also add battle scripting that go to provide the cinematics and specific tactics and events used for this conflict.

A bit more technical detail:
- Structures can now be released and turned after they’ve been placed.
- You can swap between different tooltips with the [ and ] keys
- You can change the ‘strength’ of some actions (such as raising/lowering terrain] with the , and . keys. High strength will make the land rise and drop quicker. Shift+ those keys will change the strength in units of ten.
- The height of buildings themselves can be controlled by moving the mouse with the shift button pressed.
- Trees are now added through the Vegetation tool, rather than as part of a texture and therefore the Update Tree Outlines is redundant and deactivated.
- All structures including settlements are added through an Add World Feature tool and therefore the Add Settlement Plan and Add Ambient tools are deactivated.
- Roads are now all drawn by hand so the road tool is deactivated.
- There is now a Plateau tool which further helps to manipulate the terrain.
- Currently, the camera functions as it does in battles – limiting the height from which you can view the battleground

The gorgeous battlemaps of M2 come at a price though and a full historical battle file now weighs in over 10meg, most of which as before is the .wfc file, so they’re definitely worth tinkering with to get them right.





Mod Switch

Another vital feature for modders from Rome is in Med2 but again in a slightly different way. The Mod Switch allows you to have a separate directory of your modded files in your main Medieval 2 Total War directory and by launching the game with the right cfg line the game will access the files within the mod folder before looking in the main game directory – allowing you to supercede even packed files without problem.

The best way to set this up is as follows:

Create a new bat file in the top level Medieval 2 Total War folder (the one with the .exe in it) called Launch_MyMod.bat

Inside it should read:

medieval2.exe @mymod.cfg


Then create copy your medieval2.preference.cfg file and rename it mymod.cfg and include the following lines:

[features]
mod = mymod

Then create a folder in that directory called mymod and in that have your data folder with its modded files exactly mimicking the directory structure in the main game folder.

As you can see using a bat file to launch the game using different .cfg files allows you to easily swap between different mods and game configurations without wholesale duplication of your data folder, risking direct file overwrites or copying and overwriting your original .cfg file.

As with Rome, the mymod folder needs to include certain game files from the world folder to function. Currently, it also requires sounds/events.dat and sounds/events.idx to function. This should be borne in mind when writing mod installers or alternatively in install instructions.


Unlocking all unlockable factions

Hey, I know it wasn’t hard in Rome – but now it’s even easier. Just add the following to you cfg file:

[misc]
unlock_campaign = true

Extended Bug Tracking

A great improvement upon show_err in Rome – add the following to your cfg file:

[log]
to = logs/system.log.txt
level = * error

And the game will generate a list of the errors in text files it recognises and generate a text file report. Ideal for mod bug hunting! I used it myself and picked up a bunch of mistakes I’d made in a matter of minutes that would have had me scratching my head for hours otherwise.

For even more detail you can put in:

[log]
to = logs/system.log.txt
level = * trace


Windows mode and no movies

Non-modders never understand why we use –ne and –nm in our Rome command lines. All I say to them is that they don’t relaunch their game thirty times a session!

Again, add to your cfg file:

[video]
windowed = true
movies = false

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Any news on an official model/texture import/export tool and an official animation import/export tool, essential if we really want to start serious unit modelling right from the start.

LZoF

[Epistolary Richard]

Nothing I can say at the moment. Such a tool was my highest priority going into this trip as we can all imagine the impact on the modding community if we could never add new models or animations - but I'm really going to have to defer to CA's official channels here. Trust me, though, that I have never felt the need to reiterate the importance of such a tool to the modding community whilst I've been here.

[alpaca]

Very nice. I like some of the changes, especially the error dump.
Glad to see we'll get some info about the errors now, this makes it a lot more mod-friendly platform (if we can still edit what we could in R:TW).

Nicely written, too :)

[Luciano B]

Thanks a lot ER.

Sorry for reiterating again the following questions: what about the hardcoded limits? ...max number of factions allowed (21, 30...)?
...and most important ...is it still possible to add new models for units and buildings?

...I apologize for the same old boring questions, but those matters are VITAL for the modding community, mainly for the mod projects which cover a different era than the medieval one.

Thanks again.

[Faenaris]

An excellent report, Epistolary Richard! I haven't used the battle editor in Rome, but the improved bug tracking is very handy indeed! The new mod switch is also a large step forward.

I also like the command lines for unlocking the campaign and for the windowed resolution. A lot of people are gonna be happy (and I'm happy too. I always played Rome in windowed mode.)

[PROMETHEUS]

Thanks ER , but what about the fact that we could import in the editor custom terrain tiles? What about modifing city /catle layouts? If we deploy walls and make so a mini city or a minicastle or something with a custom weird shape will the AI recognize the castle inside and outside and act consequently ....

In Rtw editor there where problems when placing some structures sometimes that created gaps in the terrain and the structure that altered the terrain too , I hope this has been fixed?

As with Rome, the mymod folder needs to include certain game files from the world folder to function. Currently, it also requires sounds/events.dat and sounds/events.idx to function. This should be borne in mind when writing mod installers or alternatively in install instructions.

Do you mean that some files will not be able to be switched? So lets say we make a Roman setting we need to use the medieval sounds?


What about importing units , how this work , will they do a tool ? what about customizeable cityscapes and castlescapes ? What about importing new buildings , ? altering the vegetation ? And what about how to edit what is walkeable on structures like walls and what not?

[shifty157]

A better -show_err command was definitly needed. -show_err was good for finding spelling mistakes but that was about it.

Awesome stuff ER. Keep it coming.

[Shigawire]

Thanks for your updates ER.

Keep us posted, this stuff is sounding good...

And the fact that CA OZ is perfectly aware that a model import/export tool is necessary makes us all that more optimistic.

Remember though, importing/exporting siege artillery animations is also important.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Thanks ER. Something else I wonder if it's too late to inquire about: we had so much trouble with the building conditionals in the EDB.txt file, it took ages to figure out how "or" worked, then with 1.5 it seemed to change. "and not" made the building browser break and not show any further levels once it was used. That sort of thing. I really wonder if they could make conditionals behave more logically this time around.

Thanks again for keeping everyone informed here though.

[khelvan]

Yes, conditionals that don't break things will be nice, as well as nested conditionals.

[Myrddraal]

Thanks a bunch ER. They've added some of you're info the community blog, and I've written you a glittering news article, you'd think you were a celebrity!

www.totalwar.org

[Epistolary Richard]

Appreciate it, Myr. Today's my last day here and so I've had a last flurry of trying to catch people to ask questions at - and in some cases trying to find the right people to ask questions at. Sorry, I've not had more time to write while I've been here - but I figured it was probably more useful to ask now - and write it up after I've left.

Do you mean that some files will not be able to be switched? So lets say we make a Roman setting we need to use the medieval sounds?

It just means that these files need to exist in the mod folder at present. The actual sounds in them will be up to you.

[edyzmedieval]

These are excellent news ER. Finally CA listened to our grouchy ears and added moddability...

[ShellShock]

Mod Switch

Another vital feature for modders from Rome is in Med2 but again in a slightly different way. The Mod Switch allows you to have a separate directory of your modded files in your main Medieval 2 Total War directory and by launching the game with the right cfg line the game will access the files within the mod folder before looking in the main game directory – allowing you to supercede even packed files without problem.

Thanks for this information. Based on this I have decided to develop a Medieval 2 Total War Mod Manager, called (ta da): MedModManager.

It will be hosted at Total War Center, and you can read about it here.

[Epistolary Richard]

Thanks for this information. Based on this I have decided to develop a Medieval 2 Total War Mod Manager, called (ta da): MedModManager.

It will be hosted at Total War Center, and you can read about it here.

Sounds interesting - just to clarify a few points from your post there:

unlike RTW where you have to create a complete copy of the whole install for each mod (all 11 GB!), or mod your original game files, for M2TW you can simply direct the game to pick up the modded files from a separate, mod directory.

As I said in the report, this is possible in Rome - it's called the -mod: command line switch and it is used by most major mods that have been recently been released. There's a very good tutorial in the Scriptorium about the text file edits needed to use it - and I would assume those edits will be similar for M2.

Displaying a list of existing mods; clicking on one will launch M2TW to play that mod.
Creating desktop shortcuts for mods - play the mod from an icon without having to use MedModManager.

Each mod is just going to be run by double clicking on a bat file in your M2 folder. I guess you could create an interface that would search your M2 folder for bat files and run them on a click. Similarly desktop shortcuts would just be a matter of making a shortcut for your bat file - but again I guess you could generate them automatically.

Creating a new skeleton mod, with the necessary files to get you started on your own mod.

Might be better to just write a programme that will copy the relevant files from the user's existing data folder and put them in a mod folder. For 1 it would be a lot smaller to download - and I mean a _lot_ smaller. And 2 CA don't really like us distributely pure vanilla files around - which is what these files would be.

Good luck with it.

[ShellShock]

Sounds interesting - just to clarify a few points from your post there:

As I said in the report, this is possible in Rome - it's called the -mod: command line switch and it is used by most major mods that have been recently been released. There's a very good tutorial in the Scriptorium about the text file edits needed to use it - and I would assume those edits will be similar for M2.

That's interesting - I didn't release RTW had this support as well - maybe it wasn't in the original version?

Each mod is just going to be run by double clicking on a bat file in your M2 folder. I guess you could create an interface that would search your M2 folder for bat files and run them on a click. Similarly desktop shortcuts would just be a matter of making a shortcut for your bat file - but again I guess you could generate them automatically.

The MedModManager removes the need to create the bat files, and it will launch M2TW directly with the correct "@mymod command" line argument. I think this will be helpful for novices, for whom even a simple thing like a bat file is perhaps asking too much. I also hope to create true Windows shortcuts for each mod, i.e., a desktop icon that launches M2TW with the @mymod parameter, so you do not have to run MedModManager first.

Might be better to just write a programme that will copy the relevant files from the user's existing data folder and put them in a mod folder. For 1 it would be a lot smaller to download - and I mean a _lot_ smaller. And 2 CA don't really like us distributely pure vanilla files around - which is what these files would be.

Sorry for the confusion but this is what I meant - my program will copy selected files from the original folder, or other mod folders. This would be a pick list that could be saved away, so when you create a new mod you are presented with a tree view of files, some already ticked. You can change the selection and then hit create, and the new mod directory will be generated.

Good luck with it.

Thanks. It is coming along nicely at the moment.

[Orda Khan]

The battle editor has been given some great new features, I can't wait to give it a try

Edit : Just remembered a question. When setting out deployment zones, can you now place them over trees? This would not work in RTW, meaning deployment was restricted to open ground

.....Orda

[Epistolary Richard]

Edit : Just remembered a question. When setting out deployment zones, can you now place them over trees? This would not work in RTW, meaning deployment was restricted to open ground

I didn't notice any restrictions - but I only set up the test you see in the screenshot so couldn't confirm that 100%.

[Olmsted]

As with Rome, the mymod folder needs to include certain game files from the world folder to function. Currently, it also requires sounds/events.dat and sounds/events.idx to function. This should be borne in mind when writing mod installers or alternatively in install instructions.

I have a couple of questions about this. I've followed your directions thus far, and despite looking around in other threads, I have not found an answer. Which files does the mymod folder need to function? It doesn't make much sense to me to copy the entire data folder into it. The world folder is only 491 Mb, which is not that bad, but surely it doesn't need everything in that, right?

[Caliban]

Edit : Just remembered a question. When setting out deployment zones, can you now place them over trees? This would not work in RTW, meaning deployment was restricted to open ground

.....Orda

You can definatley set your deployment zone anywhere within the playable map area (even over vegetation). You can also set deployment zones through ambient settlements but you will find the zone may try and cut its way around it.

[bbrass10]

I'm a software developer with 25 years of experience and I'm interested in developing a mod installer/uninstaller/launcher that seamlessly allows all mods to work with a single installation of the M2TW engine; I'm also thinking of writing a similar tool RTW/BI engines. I realize there has been some minimal effort in this direction but for the most part modders abandon this goal with the disclaimer that their mod requires a vanilla version of the base software and is not compatible with other mods. I feel that by analyzing the problems and creating an appropriate installer/uninstaller/launcher that can be universally used by modders and end users, this problem can be solved. After a thorough review of the problems with installing multiple mods for RTW/BI, I feel (in retrospect) that such a tool could have been written for that environment. Because of the release of M2TW and the advent of new graphics hardware which surpass the capabilities of the RTW/BI engines, it might be a little too late to release a tool for those environments, but I have not entirely abandoned the possibility. However, for M2TW I feel it is critical that such a tool should be developed concurrently with the many different mods being developed, in order to prevent similar problems with M2TW. It would be helpful to work closely with any modding teams that are willing to consider this proposal.

I'm not proposing a mod switcher or mod manager. Those tools place the burden of managing mods on the end user. In this thread, a modder has already asked which additional files from the root directory will be required for any given mod; can the end user be expected to configure issues like that?

I'm proposing a packaging and deployment tool for modders, much like a simplified "InstallShield" tool designed specifically for M2TW. Because the packaging and deployment tool will be familiar with the file structure and architecture of M2TW, it will be a simple task for modders to configure the deployment package without worrying about those details; a simple script or .ini file, or a friendly UI, should provide the packaging and deployment tool with enough rules and information to create a compressed, redistributable file. Some of the features will include: compatability with WinZip and WinRAR; auto-installation of a program launcher designed specifically for the M2TW (and possibly RTW/BI) engines; and the option of deploying documentation files, like "readme.txt" and mod-specific icons, to directories using the mod name and version number so that they will not overwrite files by the same name that were deployed by a different mod.

To the end user, deployment will be as easy and reliable Windows' "Add/Remove Programs", with the equivalent of a "System Restore" in case things go awry; should that happen, for any unanticipated reason, the user will have the option of restoring the application to any previously working state, much like Windows' "System Restore"; algorithmically, it will work more like a Version Control System.

A mod launcher will be automatically installed or updated by the deployment package. Shortcuts on the desktop will invoke the launcher with parameters indicating which mod(s) should be launched, and the launcher will perform any necessary preparations (such as file management) prior to invoking the M2TW/RTW/BI engine with the -mod:<folder> option.

In short, it will be less work for modders to package and deploy their software; for the end-user, managing duplicate mods would be as easy as Windows' Add/Remove programs and recovering from disaster would be as simple as "System Restore", with additional support for log files that can report the nature of the problem to developers and users.

How does everyone else feel about this?

[Olmsted]

As nice as it sounds to some, I don't like your idea. I much prefer an old-fashioned mod where I have to download and .zip and put the files in the proper place myself. I won't use any mod that comes with an "installer."

[Lusted]

I won't use any mod that comes with an "installer."

That's a bit odd. For my Lands to Conqeur mod i've made an installer that does everything for the player, so that modding noobs can install it with ease.

[KARTLOS]

I'm a software developer with 25 years of experience and I'm interested in developing a mod installer/uninstaller/launcher that seamlessly allows all mods to work with a single installation of the M2TW engine; I'm also thinking of writing a similar tool RTW/BI engines. I realize there has been some minimal effort in this direction but for the most part modders abandon this goal with the disclaimer that their mod requires a vanilla version of the base software and is not compatible with other mods. I feel that by analyzing the problems and creating an appropriate installer/uninstaller/launcher that can be universally used by modders and end users, this problem can be solved. After a thorough review of the problems with installing multiple mods for RTW/BI, I feel (in retrospect) that such a tool could have been written for that environment. Because of the release of M2TW and the advent of new graphics hardware which surpass the capabilities of the RTW/BI engines, it might be a little too late to release a tool for those environments, but I have not entirely abandoned the possibility. However, for M2TW I feel it is critical that such a tool should be developed concurrently with the many different mods being developed, in order to prevent similar problems with M2TW. It would be helpful to work closely with any modding teams that are willing to consider this proposal.

I'm not proposing a mod switcher or mod manager. Those tools place the burden of managing mods on the end user. In this thread, a modder has already asked which additional files from the root directory will be required for any given mod; can the end user be expected to configure issues like that?

I'm proposing a packaging and deployment tool for modders, much like a simplified "InstallShield" tool designed specifically for M2TW. Because the packaging and deployment tool will be familiar with the file structure and architecture of M2TW, it will be a simple task for modders to configure the deployment package without worrying about those details; a simple script or .ini file, or a friendly UI, should provide the packaging and deployment tool with enough rules and information to create a compressed, redistributable file. Some of the features will include: compatability with WinZip and WinRAR; auto-installation of a program launcher designed specifically for the M2TW (and possibly RTW/BI) engines; and the option of deploying documentation files, like "readme.txt" and mod-specific icons, to directories using the mod name and version number so that they will not overwrite files by the same name that were deployed by a different mod.

To the end user, deployment will be as easy and reliable Windows' "Add/Remove Programs", with the equivalent of a "System Restore" in case things go awry; should that happen, for any unanticipated reason, the user will have the option of restoring the application to any previously working state, much like Windows' "System Restore"; algorithmically, it will work more like a Version Control System.

A mod launcher will be automatically installed or updated by the deployment package. Shortcuts on the desktop will invoke the launcher with parameters indicating which mod(s) should be launched, and the launcher will perform any necessary preparations (such as file management) prior to invoking the M2TW/RTW/BI engine with the -mod:<folder> option.

In short, it will be less work for modders to package and deploy their software; for the end-user, managing duplicate mods would be as easy as Windows' Add/Remove programs and recovering from disaster would be as simple as "System Restore", with additional support for log files that can report the nature of the problem to developers and users.

How does everyone else feel about this?

sounds like a good idea

[Olmsted]

That's a bit odd. For my Lands to Conqeur mod i've made an installer that does everything for the player, so that modding noobs can install it with ease.

I refuse to use such things - because then I have to go back and make all my own tweaks by hand. For me, modding is about customization and control, and an installer takes both of those away from me. I agree that for the average person the installer is fabulous, but I don't like it at all.

[Spur]

I refuse to use such things - because then I have to go back and make all my own tweaks by hand. For me, modding is about customization and control, and an installer takes both of those away from me. I agree that for the average person the installer is fabulous, but I don't like it at all.

Even then, nothing stops you from pointing such an installer to an empty folder, extract it, and go about in your usual fashion - so it does not impede you in any way, I mean... :)

[ShellShock]

I'm not proposing a mod switcher or mod manager. Those tools place the burden of managing mods on the end user. In this thread, a modder has already asked which additional files from the root directory will be required for any given mod; can the end user be expected to configure issues like that?

I'm proposing a packaging and deployment tool for modders, much like a simplified "InstallShield" tool designed specifically for M2TW.

Nice idea - this is a different approach to MedManager, which is a "mod switcher/mod launcher".

For many (most?) mods, installation can just be a case of file copying, which can be accomplished via a self extracting zip. An installer is useful if it can auto-detect the location of the M2TW directory, and for creating launch and removal icons. For MedManager I've assumed the user is able to extract a downloaded mod to the right directory, and MedManager takes care of the rest (creating the icon, cfg file etc).

The need to copy some files from the base install is for me still a bit problematical. Some files are definitely needed, others are optional but useful. For example, all the fmv stuff if you still want assasination etc movies. I was hoping the patch would remove the need to copy these at all - if they are in the base install, why can't the engine find them there?

Any way, I wish you luck!

I would also like to point out to everyone in general that there is no need to create a bat file for a mod - just create a Windows shortcut directly to the medieval2.exe, and add "@Mymod.cfg" to the Target in the shortcut properties, where Mymod is the name of the mod.

[bbrass10]

I'm glad the author of MedModManager sees the value in a tool like this! We may find it useful to swap notes.

There are actually more uses to an installer/uninstaller/launcher. In a perfect world, the -mod:<folder> switch would be sufficient to launch any mod, and they would never conflict with each other. However, the truth is that modders are ever more demanding of the features they want to add to their mods, and ultimately discover that in order to implement some of them that they need to go outside of their "assigned directory" and make changes or additions elsewhere. I can show you an example in almost every mod I've downloaded, which is about all of the major ones. An installer with a built-in version control system can keep track of which mods have modified/added which files in which order, allowing it to restore the application to any previous condition after performing an installation. The launcher could use information provided by the installer to eliminate the performance problems that some modders (like the guys who wrote "Rise of Persia") complain about when using the -mod switch.

Of course, the other major advantage is that it will make it extremely simple for modders to create their deployment packages. They won't have to worry about things like duplicate file names ("readme.txt") or file structures. WinZip has the capability of warning about overwriting files, but once again you're placing the burden on the end-user.

[Epistolary Richard]

The other approach modders use aside from the mod switch is the JoneSoft Generic Mod Enabler (link in sig) - you should probably have a look at that as well.