Which faction has the worst starting position?

[BaldwinIV]

How did you think, which faction is toughest to play (according to its starting position)?
IMO this is Portugal.

[parcelt]

I agree Portugal is on nr. 1. Those two separated provinces.... they 'd better start of with some superior military force so they can break through either spanish or moor territory and unite their lands.

Nr. 2 I guess is Scotland. After that it becomes blurred, but I think the Milanese may be in for a rough ride as well.

Egypt I think will be most boring (to start with)... sit there, take a zillion rebel provinces and build them up.... yawn.

[Zenicetus]

Egypt I think will be most boring (to start with)... sit there, take a zillion rebel provinces and build them up.... yawn.

I agree about the start for Egypt, but the mid-game could get interesting. Build up a big navy, then launch an invasion across the Med, due north. And in the end game, it would be fun to see Egypt take on the Aztecs... especially if Egypt doesn't get much in the way of late-game firearms tech. Although, that's probably one of the last factions I'd play. Too many others are more interesting to start with.

P.S. Portugal definitely looks the hardest, unless the deck has been stacked with superior starting units, or some economic bonus (marine trade, maybe?).

[Burakius]

Hungary and Portugal. Hungary is surrounded by 2 countries. And Portugal is obvious ( and historically ridiculous)

[parcelt]

And in the end game, it would be fun to see Egypt take on the Aztecs...

There's an interesting scenario!

To Darth Nihilus: I think your observations are correct, however we were discussing starting positions. The HRE starts with a good set of territories and plenty of rebel provinces nearby. There's no worry about being taken out early. Portugal, on the other hand, seems to have very little room for mistakes early on. Sure, if it manages to survive for a while it may eventually find itselve in a good position, but that seems a big 'if' considering the intial setup.

[Amon_Zeth]

Poor ol' Portugal looks like it's pretty bad off, what with being surrounded and all. France is second, being hemmed in by some very hostile people.

[ProudNerd]

France surrounded by nations that hate them and my first target for me when i play england in my first campaign! :D

[Comrade Alexeo]

I said Scotland. They're stuck on a wee little island with only one city and facing the powerful English...

Portugal is a close second. It comes in at #2 because I think its possible that the Spanish will be more concerned with the Moors at first, allowing the Portuguese to cautiously build up...

[Faenaris]

While portugal really is in a dire position, I still voted HRE. They have a larger empire, thus a larger border and a lot of other nations in the vicinity. Granted, there are some rebel provinces who figure as some kind of buffer, but still. :)

[ProudNerd]

While portugal really is in a dire position, I still voted HRE. They have a larger empire, thus a larger border and a lot of other nations in the vicinity. Granted, there are some rebel provinces who figure as some kind of buffer, but still. :)

im not sure of the exact positions. Is there a map where i can see where each faction starts?

[parcelt]

ProudNerd, check out:

https://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?...tw2map2qh7.jpg

[Darth Nihilus]

While Portugal's starting position is not easy, I think the most difficult starting spot is the HRE by far. Portugal does have a somewhat difficult starting spot, but I wouldn't even put it in the top 5 hardest. The HRE has many potential enemies that it has to deal with at once. Dealing with 1 or 2 enemies is not nearly as difficult as fighting 6 at one time.

Plus, if you are winning with Portugal, you have natural borders that you can expand to in the Iberian peninsula. If you are winning with the HRE, you have no natural borders. Not to mention, the Iberian peninsula is a lot more wealthy that the land in central Europe. I am baffled that Portugal has even been veoted for.

[TheImp]

Portugal, definitely.

[TB666]

I say Byzantines.
I remember from MTW1 that those guys were difficult to play because of the location.
Not to mention the fact that you always get crusader armies in your lands stealing your troops.
Then the golden horde comes and it gets even worse.

Turks also bad

[satchef1]

Its got to be the Portugese, their only possibility of survival is if the Castile-Leonese and Moors keep each other too busy for them to notice Portugal. The Scots have it pretty bad too but at least they have easily defendable terrain and if they strike when Englands back is turned the British Isles are theirs, and it will take some fighting to get them out of their again!

I say Byzantines.
I remember from MTW1 that those guys were difficult to play because of the location.
Not to mention the fact that you always get crusader armies in your lands stealing your troops.
Then the golden horde comes and it gets even worse.

Turks also bad

The Byz have an easy starting position in MTW1, Turk-stopping bottle-neck at constantinople, rich provences, easy expansion into the rebel steppe provences via the black sea. Its the easiest starting position in the game

[Aracnid]

Remember its starting position, by the time you have crusaderes and Mongol you will have built up quite a lot. I say Portugal because you can't expand far without running into other people, followed by Scotland because you share an island with the English and apart from the one province to your North and mayby Nothumberland you have to go to war with England to expand.

[Vladimir]

HRE, as always. Let's see if the AI can play them this time. Playing them in MTW you have to exterminate a faction to secure the peace with them. No forgiveness for the Germans.

[Phalaxar]

France I'd say was toughest, because she has some decent but not great lands - good enough to be desired but not good enough to be an immediate powerhouse.

Portugal, I'd say, was alright - with a bit of luck she could survive and do very well. Ally with Spain immediately, attack the moors to take Corduba (such a lovely province!), build up defensively, take on the Spanish, and they're sitting pretty in that peninsula.
If you leave Spain to itself, just remember: in MTW that other little Spanish faction always did alright for itself - not that I can remember the name!

All the others, I think, can just about survive. France I see as most likely to go out of the game.

Although I suppose the Holy Roman Empire is in a very similar position to France.

Edit: obviously it depends where the player starts. I guess I'm thinking in a game with no player influence. Can't of course say that for sure without seeing the campaign AI.

[maestro]

I voted for Scotland cause they've only got one city and they'll be at war with the very powerful English Empire until they are wiped off the map

[JonnyTheRipper]

Is this map historically correct? What year is it? It seen pretty strange.

[Kavhan Isbul]

The map is as historically incorrect as it gets. There are just way too many rebels, making for a boring opening - each faction has access to plenty of rebel cities, and in the beginning it would be a scramble for lands and centers, suiting a game about the 19th century colonisation of Africa rather than Medieval Europe. I will not game the game until some decent mods come out with a more ralistic starting map.
That being said, back to the topic. I actually think that what applies to the Portugese, applies to the Spanish. Especially if the Moors decide to attack them early or simply take the rebel cities on the Iberian peninsula quicker. A nightmare scenario for the Spanish is for the Portugese to take Zaragoza, while the Moors get to Valencia first. Pamplona seems closer to zaragoza than Toledo, and even if the Spanish take Valencia, they will be squeezed between the Moors and the Portugese - not a great position.
The Scotish actually are in a good position - if they take York, they only have one province to defend against the English (who might be in war with the French on the mainland). The HRE and the French are in a complicated position - plenty of initial lands means they will have to consolidate and defend before they can expand (unless the French can take out the English quickly and the HRE can do the same with Venice). I wonder where the richest lands will be. If cities in the North-East yield poor income, it may turn out that the Novgorods are in the worst starting position, despite being surrounded with plenty of rebels - if they cannot get the funds to develop well before a Western or Southern super power emerges and the Horde arrives, then they would be the hardest faction.