Kerry part 2

[Tribesman]

So nice and simple , option a or option b
John Kerry meant with his statement.......
a stupid people join the military

b stupid people get stuck in a crazy situation without a clue as to how to get out (and they are not really sure why they went in in the first place)

[Lemur]

Interesting take from Andrew Sullivan:

Maybe this story isn't over. I've been thoroughly persuaded by John Derbyshire and Christopher Hitchens that John Kerry's words were indeed a botched joke. The clincher for me was the actual prepared text, which I confess I hadn't seen till I watched the Daily Show (where I tend to get the news these days) last night. The actual text was that if you didn't work hard, "you end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

Now, I may be typical of many people's real-time response to this piece of "news." When I first heard the remarks, I cringed and was appalled. When I saw the context, I could see what Kerry might have meant, but also saw the need for him to apologize for the way his spoken remarks could have plausibly been misinterpreted. I stand by that. But now I also see the prepared remarks in black and white, I have a third wave of sentiment. I agree with Jay Nordlinger here:

When you see Kerry's prepared text — I guess you would have to accept it as authentic — you can see precisely what Kerry meant: Bush is stupid, he has always been a slacker, that left him unprepared to lead in Iraq, blah, blah, blah.

So the debate over what Kerry actually meant is now over.

Now what do I next remember? I remember that the president vehemently went after Kerry, as did McCain. Now, when a president decides to do such a thing, his staff have examined the upsides and downsides every which way. They are paid to know any possible backfire for the remarks. And Rove is very smart. So this much I now know: knowing full well that he was deeply distorting Kerry's meaning, the president used the quote full-bore to impugn Kerry's commitment to the troops - and to help turn the base against the Democrats.

I know it's politics. I'm not naive. But it's also revealing about someone's character that he could authorize and exploit such a thing. Most fair-minded people will have to concede that, in retrospect, this was a very, very, very low blow. It hadn't sunk in for me till last night how low. In retrospect, this incident says much more about Bush than about Kerry. I'll bet I'm not the only one mulling that over this morning.

[CrossLOPER]

Low blow or not, I'm afraid it worked.

[Xiahou]

The clincher for me was the actual prepared text, which I confess I hadn't seen till I watched the Daily Show (where I tend to get the news these days) last night.

That is horrifying.

[CrossLOPER]

He wasn't serious, at least not in the way you think he was.

[yesdachi]

Kerry tried to take another cheep shot at W and he botched it because he can’t read his own prepared text?

[Redleg]

So nice and simple , option a or option b
John Kerry meant with his statement.......
a stupid people join the military

b stupid people get stuck in a crazy situation without a clue as to how to get out (and they are not really sure why they went in in the first place)

In the matter that Kerry screwed up his attempt at a low blow, I can only conclude that he meant both. When one ad libs a joke, they often demonstrate their own feelings toward something.

Now Lemur's noted article is very telling - and I have a tendency to agree with the author's thought. The insuing political flap by both Kerry and Bush is very telling on both of them.

[Kanamori]

Bush started it.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I thought the "joke" was offensive. I don't mind him saying stuff about Bush, but he should have re-phrase it,because it does sound like he racking up our troops sadly.

[Crazed Rabbit]

What Kerry said was;
a stupid people join the military

Though it appears he meant to say;
b stupid people get stuck in a crazy situation without a clue as to how to get out (and they are not really sure why they went in in the first place)

Why he wouldn't just apologize after being called on it by non-partisan organizations, like the American Legion and American Veterans, though, is puzzling if one accepts he does not believe in option a and meant and only believes option b.

Continuing what Redleg said, it is likely he meant to say something like option b, though it seems to me it is likely he believes option a (especially given his past comments about an all volunteer army being all poor and minorities, and more likely to commit war crimes.)

Most fair-minded people will have to concede that, in retrospect, this was a very, very, very low blow. It hadn't sunk in for me till last night how low. In retrospect, this incident says much more about Bush than about Kerry.

Sullivan assumes he was distorting Kerry's meaning; given Kerry's refusal to apologize for several days, I find it hard to believe one could know absolutely that Kerry did not mean what he said. It seems to me, it was Kerry who distorted the meaning of his speech, and with his refusal to apologize, I am unconvinced of how Bush comes off as terriblely evil in his response.

Crazed Rabbit

[CrossLOPER]

I thought the "joke" was offensive. I don't mind him saying stuff about Bush, but he should have re-phrase it,because it does sound like he racking up our troops sadly.

HE. MESSED. THE. JOKE. UP.

Yes. The joke, as he gave it in his speech, was offensive. However, the fact that the Republicans are knowingly misinterpreting it and assaulting the Democratic party is also quite offensive in a sense. Not that there is room to get offended in politics.

[yesdachi]

Wasn’t Kerry’s GPA a bit lower than W’s? Isn’t W the President of the United States of America? Didn’t Kerry loose a presidential election to W? If W is soooo dumb why is Kerry speaking at a university and not from the White House? Bush may be a stupid slacker that’s unprepared to lead but he still beat John Kerry.

Seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Its pretty lame to not be smart enough to pick on someone else about being smart.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

HE. MESSED. THE. JOKE. UP.

Yes. The joke, as he gave it in his speech, was offensive. However, the fact that the Republicans are knowingly misinterpreting it and assaulting the Democratic party is also quite offensive in a sense. Not that there is room to get offended in politics.

NO.KIDDING.

He should have known that it was going to stir up alot of People's Feathers.
Having the Republicans striking back is ok to me, you messed up a joke before election day,that your own fault..

[Don Corleone]

I think Redleg is right. The prepared joke was most likely less offensive towards the troops. Kerry's bungling of a seemingly simple line to repeat indicates his own personal biases.... i.e. he read it the way he really feels, not the way his speechwriter intended.

As for Bush being some nefarious character for seizing on a chance to swing back... come on Lemur, you really are turning into a shill. Yes, Bush took advantage of a bad situation and pulled it further then he knew it was originally intended.

Is it your contention that the president should sit back and let Kerry insult him and when Kerry screws up and winds up insulting the armed forces, Bush is supposed to just keep quiet and silently suffer the slings and arrows?

I imagine the truth is Bush and his advisors said "Good, let's make Kerry own what he said, not what he meant to say". Maybe that's a low blow for you and the rest of the DNC, but in the real world, when you kick a guy in the shins, you don't expect him to follow the Marquis of Queensbury rules when he repsonds.

[Watchman]

Personally I think US politics in general suck. The politicians even worse. The campaign tactics, for their part, conduct a spirited attempt at limboing under the trivial and tasteless.
And am quite happy it's not my country.

Anyway, as my younger brother is wont to say: "serving your military time is a healthy learning experience - it gives you considerable motivation to study hard, so you don't have to make a career there." He also says it fulfills several useful roles in society; first, it's a dumb and crappy job that nonetheless needs to be done, and second it cleans young men out of the streets at the age when they're just about at their dumbest. And finally it is a convenient repository for folks who're really better off languishing as junior officers until their retirement...