Gun Control

[Kralizec]

Well, it's been a couple of hours now and after re-reading my own posts I feel I do owe an apology to Don Corleone, and of course to rape victims. It was pretty tasteless and that wasn't apparent to me before, I'm pretty slow when it comes to that. Sorry.

[Tribesman]

There's lots more solid info available, folks

Yeah you can always rely on the NRA for solid bias

Three out of four violent crimes committed in the United States each year do not in any way involve firearms.

So 25% of violent crime does involve guns then .

Crimes with firearms have risen dramatically since the ban on handgun ownership was passed by Parliament.

Yep since possesion of an unlicensed gun is a crime with firearms , possesion of a relica weapon is a crime with firearms , incorrest storage of ammunition is a gun crime , having the wrong type of gun cabinet is crime with firearms .
Do you remember the recent Metropolitan police swoop that added over 800 gun crimes to the figures ? all for one individual arms dealer , and mainly over storage and paperwork "gun crimes"

The last place you want to look for "solid" info would be the NRA , no more than you would rely on an anti-firearm group for "solid" info .

[Geezer57]

Yeah you can always rely on the NRA for solid bias

Actually, most of the info quoted by the NRA is from government or university studies, and doesn't originate with the NRA. Sure, they pick and choose to emphasise their point of view, but what special-interest group doesn't? The NRA is far, far, more objective than ANY of the anti-gun groups - if they didn't have a firm basis for their claims, they'd be subjected to even more hysterical ranting than what happens ordinarily. On the other hand, the anti organizations tend to make up their "facts" from thin air.

So 25% of violent crime does involve guns then .

The point is simply, since the overwhelming majority of violent crime does not involve guns, that regulating guns in an attempt to "control crime" is unproductive.

Yep since possesion of an unlicensed gun is a crime with firearms , possesion of a relica weapon is a crime with firearms , incorrest storage of ammunition is a gun crime , having the wrong type of gun cabinet is crime with firearms .
Do you remember the recent Metropolitan police swoop that added over 800 gun crimes to the figures ? all for one individual arms dealer , and mainly over storage and paperwork "gun crimes"

I'm sure that "paper" gun crimes are a small factor, but since the various UK gun bans have been put in effect the rate of hot home invasions (residents are present), assaults, rapes, etc. have all risen. And these are definitely not paper gun crimes. This is not something the UK politicos want broadcast, so they've been doing everything in their power to downplay these occurrences. But it's pretty clear to anyone who wants to dig into the issue that violent crime rates in most (not all) categories are now higher in the UK than in the USA. The disarming of the population, the elimination of any legal self-defense justification, etc., have all (unintentionally?) contributed to making the problem worse.

The last place you want to look for "solid" info would be the NRA , no more than you would rely on an anti-firearm group for "solid" info.

Actually, this conclusion of yours is just uninformed - have you even been to the NRA's website? There's a wealth of good information, firearms history, hunter safety, the Eddie Eagle child safety education, etc., etc.
On the other hand, I've been to most of the major anti-gun sites, looked at their "research", followed up on the claims, and found most of it to be so flawed and emotional as to be worthless.
So yes, outside of political appeals (where everybody is way too glandular), the NRA's info on this issue is much more "solid" than their counterparts on the opposite side.

[Watchman]

...just how often do I need to see this "guns reduce crime" junk, I wonder ? Most countries get along right fine with low crime rates despite the citizenry not being armed to the teeth for their own protection you know.

The quality of law enforcement systems might of have rather more to do with it.

[Tribesman]

That, and the fact that the amount of actual (ie not those you discuseed, but muggings and the like) crimes with guns have increased.

So you mean actual crimes where guns are used to enable criminals to commit crimes rather than the technical gun crimes .
I see you use the word "fact" in your statement , now that is interesting .

You see , it is a fact that "gun crimes" in the broader sense have increased , however it is a fact that Britains largest police authority says that actual gun enabled crime has dropped .
So would you like to guess by how big a percentage gun enabled crime has dropped , or would you prefer to believe the NRA bull ?

I'm sure that "paper" gun crimes are a small factor, but since the various UK gun bans have been put in effect the rate of hot home invasions (residents are present), assaults, rapes, etc. have all risen. And these are definitely not paper gun crimes.

I take it you get your "solid" data from the NRA without checking it then
Do you notice how out of date many of those quoted snippets of "solid data" are .

Actually, this conclusion of yours is just uninformed - have you even been to the NRA's website?

OMG !!!!!!!! it never crossed my mind to actually read what the NRA has to say before I slagged them for misrepresentation and bias , how could I have ever been so silly

Sometimes this is just too easy

[Don Corleone]

Shame on me. I just reread my series of posts in this thread last night. While I stand behind everything I said, I really don't care for the tone that I employed at all. I was boorish and rude.

Kralizec, I apologize. I have no excuse for my behavior.