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  1. #1
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Post Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    That known bastion of liberal elite quisling fifth-column ... oh, no wait, it's the Army Times. Anyway, they're publicly calling on Rumsfeld to go, a position I agree with wholeheartedly. Full text under spoil tag.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Time for Rumsfeld to go
    “So long as our government requires the backing of an aroused and informed public opinion ... it is necessary to tell the hard bruising truth.”
    That statement was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning war correspondent Marguerite Higgins more than a half-century ago during the Korean War.

    But until recently, the “hard bruising” truth about the Iraq war has been difficult to come by from leaders in Washington.

    One rosy reassurance after another has been handed down by President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld: “mission accomplished,” the insurgency is “in its last throes,” and “back off,” we know what we’re doing, are a few choice examples.

    Military leaders generally toed the line, although a few retired generals eventually spoke out from the safety of the sidelines, inciting criticism equally from anti-war types, who thought they should have spoken out while still in uniform, and pro-war foes, who thought the generals should have kept their critiques behind closed doors.

    Now, however, a new chorus of criticism is beginning to resonate. Active-duty military leaders are starting to voice misgivings about the war’s planning, execution and dimming prospects for success.

    Army Gen. John Abizaid, chief of U.S. Central Command, told a Senate Armed Services Committee in September: “I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I’ve seen it ... and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war.”

    Last week, someone leaked to The New York Times a Central Command briefing slide showing an assessment that the civil conflict in Iraq now borders on “critical” and has been sliding toward “chaos” for most of the past year. The strategy in Iraq has been to train an Iraqi army and police force that could gradually take over for U.S. troops in providing for the security of their new government and their nation.

    But despite the best efforts of American trainers, the problem of molding a viciously sectarian population into anything resembling a force for national unity has become a losing proposition.

    For two years, American sergeants, captains and majors training the Iraqis have told their bosses that Iraqi troops have no sense of national identity, are only in it for the money, don’t show up for duty and cannot sustain themselves.

    Meanwhile, colonels and generals have asked their bosses for more troops. Service chiefs have asked for more money.

    And all along, Rumsfeld has assured us that things are well in hand.

    Now, the president says he’ll stick with Rumsfeld for the balance of his term in the White House.

    This is a mistake. It is one thing for the majority of Americans to think Rumsfeld has failed. But when the nation’s current military leaders start to break publicly with their defense secretary, then it is clear that he is losing control of the institution he ostensibly leads.

    These officers have been loyal public promoters of a war policy many privately feared would fail. They have kept their counsel private, adhering to more than two centuries of American tradition of subordination of the military to civilian authority.

    And although that tradition, and the officers’ deep sense of honor, prevent them from saying this publicly, more and more of them believe it.

    Rumsfeld has lost credibility with the uniformed leadership, with the troops, with Congress and with the public at large. His strategy has failed, and his ability to lead is compromised. And although the blame for our failures in Iraq rests with the secretary, it will be the troops who bear its brunt.

    This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:

    Donald Rumsfeld must go.

  2. #2
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    Is there anyone who still doesn't agree with this . . . ?

    Ajax

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  3. #3
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    Does no-one want to defend Rummy? Come on, where's DevDave?

  4. #4
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    The problem is that it is the Army wanting rid of Rumsfeld. So, to disagree with the article is to in effect disagree with the Army. Dave's loyalties are prpbaby more with the Army core than a politician.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  5. #5
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Does no-one want to defend Rummy? Come on, where's DevDave?
    Just for grins, I'll put on my Devil's Advocate hat:

    -Invade Afghanistan. Check.
    -Defeat Taliban. Check.
    -Ivade Iraq. Check.
    -Defeat Republican Guard. Check.
    -Run a 2-theatre war with existing resources. Check.
    -Insure security during elections in both countries. Check.

    He's done all the major tasks assigned. Bush values loyalty over almost any other trait. Why should he fire his loyal lieutenant?

    ---------(Removes Devil's Advocate Hat)---------------

    Kukr's opinion: the entire chain of command, Rumsfield down to Private England's squad leader, should have offered their resignation after Abu Ghraib.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    I am not defending him, but a lot of the military do not like him for reasons other than Iraq I think.

    If I remember correctly, Rumsfeld's goal since before 9/11 was to change the military into a lighter, faster response type institution. This, I believe, meant not as much emphasis on the heavy tank and artillery divisions, and more resources directed towards new stuff like wheeled vehicles and light artillery.

    I remember there was a big fight over a certain piece of extremely heavy artillery in development that Rummy axed and it pissed off a great many people.

    Maybe the Army Times is comprised of a lot of old school Cold War guys who dont want to see the huge, cumbersome army yield to a quick response force, and they smell blood.

    On the other hand, he may have accomplished a lot in the initial invasions of both countries, but he does not seem to be able to handle an occupation. (I suspect he had very little to do with the actual invasions besides saying "go for it")

    We need to find someone who can handle the job that we have now, which is not to defeat a standing army, but a large, unorganized, guerilla force.
    ...trying to remember to spell check...

  7. #7
    Member Member Del Arroyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    The Army Times is an over-priced weekly newspaper sold on military posts, which runs positive little human-interest pieces and an occasional "investigation" of a scandal that is already really hot in the civilian press, and prints alot of information about pay grades and promotion points and uniforms and stuff like that. It is written and edited by a bunch of soldiers from one of those pogue MOS's like Public Affairs or something like that, and the quality is usually a little bit higher than those free "journals" that get thrown on your front lawn. They're never ahead of the curve-- if they are printing an editorial like this, that means there's a strong general consensus. My incidental experiences would confirm this.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    Rummy has some good qualities:

    (a) Transforming the military from the cold-war era to respond to modern threats was long overdue. The lessons of the 'Stan and the 'Roq have taught us how much of the military must transform and what is necessary to retain.

    (b) Performing a private-sector style overhaul of the federal employment system to base wages on performance rather than longevity. This will increase productivity and accountability. This overhaul is still ongoing and some of it faces very strong opposition in the courts. (Note: This is despised by most of the federal employee population for obvious reasons. I personally believe that federal law enforcement and emergency services cannot be measured in such a way and thus are an inappropriate candidate for this program. Nevertheless, I commend his efforts at reducing inefficieny and waste in bureacracy.)


    Despite this, the governance of the Iraqi Campaign falls squarely on the shoulders of the President and his closest advisors. While not as awful as it could be, the Iraqi Campaign has faced a number of obstacles which could have otherwise been avoided with a more pessimistic attitude towards the outcome. I believe that this is what many of the "neocons" have found frustrating about the Defense Secretary's policies within the conflict zone.


    As an interesting and related aside: President George W. Bush has taken the most flak for being too far left. His allowance of gross overspending and expansion of federal meddling has greatly discouraged the true conservatives of this nation. Secondly and as importantly, the Bush orientation towards the border is closer to that of Teddy Kennedy than the mainstream GOP. And lastly, the Iraqi Campaign has been fought with "kid gloves", where an eye towards media criticism and potential political fallout have allowed the perceived politically safe decision to be made instead of the right decision.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

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  9. #9
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army Times: Rumsfeld Must Go

    Ah the eternal question. Should we Hump or Gig the terrorist scum to death.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Many of you wont understand but this is funny


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    very funny
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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