Why does TWC have more hosted modifications than the Org?

[Epistolary Richard]

Notice - along with mod-bashing and CA-bashing, there will be no more site-bashing - if you have issues with a site raise it with that site not here, this is the Mod Discussion forum and so is not only wrong, but worse... off topic

We now return you to your regular moderating...

If OR and EB are merging then that will probably mean that TWC becomes the new home of EB! Can I specially request that EB stays here at the Org so that I don't have to use TWC? Please! Please! PLEASE!

Such a request might be better made in the EB subforum rather than here.

The Org is the best forum that I ever signed up to and as an added bonus it has the most friendly staff out of any forum that I have ever seen in my lifetime. Hooray for the conservative and freindly Org!

Are you saying that the staff at TWC aren't friendly? *feels insulted*

Are you saying that the Org staff are friendly? *feels insulted* *never been called friendly before* *scary, creepy, give people the willies but friendly never!*

I recently noticed while browsing TWC that they have many more hosted modifications than the Org. This is terribly annoying because if you want to talk about some of your favorite modifications then Org members have to set up a separate account on TWC. So what did the Org do to scare all these modders away and make them want to set up on TWC? I would have thought that the Org would have have more hosted mods due to it's age and it's (reasonably) friendly community.

The Org first started having hosted modifications back in June 2004 and they were created because some mods grew simply too big for a single thread. It was intended that once released that a community would grow around that specific mod and that a subforum was required in order to allow the modders to offer the full range of activities for their players. They were intended to be the 'home' of the mod, where its development and interaction with players would take place, rather than go to the trouble of setting up a completely different forum. Hence a 'hosted' mod - in a similar manner to a 'hosted' site such as we have on our front page.

As ever, all mods were encouraged to have a thread in the mod development forums (the Engineers Guild for MTW, then the Forge for RTW) - so every mod who wanted to could have a presence on the Org. A mod that garnered a significant amount of interest from Org members and who had their 'home' here could then be given a 'hosted' forum if they requested it. Something that's often not considered is the amount of work that's required in maintaining your own subforum (in terms of the time it takes away from your actual modding) so it's perfectly understandable that some modders didn't want to bother with one, certainly until their mod is released.

With the release of Rome, some new staff on TWC wanted to develop the modding side of their site and in March 2005 announced their first hosted mod forums (or Major Community Projects as it was called back then). These included several mods that were formed from a 'core' of members who primarily hung out on TWC - such as RTR - but also a board for Europa Barbarorum (which already had a 'Hosted' board on the Org - and khelvan has explained the rationale for both mods presence there).

Throughout the main period of Rome modding - even when Major Community Projects was renamed to hosted mods - both TWC and the Org have stayed true to their individual concepts of what the areas for. For the Org - a 'hosted mod' was one that had their home on this site and it looked for mods that had gained significant interest from the Org community and were well-advanced in their development to try and ensure that their mod would ultimately be released. TWC had always maintained a more transparent process of how they go about creating new mod subfora. They were open to creating new fora for mods from all across the community and were generally more open to the idea of having a forum for a mod far earlier in their development.

What happened across the whole of the community during the Rome period was a change in the perception of having your own subforum. It stopped becoming a simple matter of having a space to develop a mod and having a home to immerse your players and became a matter of prestige. A mod, even one in development, felt judged as more of a success if it had its own subforum. Mods felt they needed a presence on several sites to attract interest and (for the larger teams) more modders. A simple thread in a mod development forum was less prestigious than a whole subforum as you got less attention from that site's members. It was natural therefore - as more and more modders pushed to have subfora of their own - that a site who was more open to it would create more than a site who considered that a hosted mod should be one that had it's 'home' on that site.

And this is an attitude that has been predominant in some of the new modders who've come along with Rome. Mods created by old MTW modders on the Org - such as Blue Lotus, Citadel and The Wheel of Time don't normally bother having subfora elsewhere. Equally, mod groups like the Lordz despite being wildly popular on the Org have never asked whilst I've been on staff for their own subforum here and have only just opened up one on TWC.

It was essentially a question of who would move to who - the mods or the players. The players need the mods to keep themselves interested, the mods need the players for self-validation and recruitment. Previously it was thought that the players would move to the modders' homes - whichever site they were own. Now it seems modders think they must move to the players' homes in order to be successful.

Strangely perhaps, when the topic of the Hosted Mod forums came up as part of the first round of our 'Future' discussions on the Org most of the comments were in favour of having a single 'home' for mods and maintaining single threads on other sites.


But all the above is in the past - and a new game is bearing down upon us. Hugely ambitious mod projects have already been announced and are laying out plans based on assumptions made around RTW. Just as the question of why there are relatively few Hosted mods are on the Org has emerged so too have TWC staff had to deal with having to clear away the subfora of mods which have died or risk the active mods being lost even more than they would be in a mod development forum.

What the Org's approach to Hosted Mods will be in the future will depend on what happens to the community and what the leaders of that community think - it may change completely or it may stay the same. Maybe I'll be involved in influencing that decision or maybe not. Omnia mutantur and all that.