Saddam Hussein sentenced to death

[Slyspy]

Politically it would have been better if he had been shot when they first found him, or if he had suffered a mysterious death in custody like another tinpot dictator you may remember recently. If he must die.

Morally I am against the death penalty, even for a character like Saddam.

This does not make me a dictator-worshipping lefty liberal as suggested by a post earlier in the thread.

[Kralizec]

I had a discussiont today with someone. I felt that while I'm against the death penalty, I didn't feel sorry for the guy and wouldn't pick this case to start a protest march. The other one felt the opposite way, she felt sorry for Hussein and would have marched if there would be a demonstration

[Major Robert Dump]

Tookie Hussein has been framed by overzealous, racist cops. I hope right before the hanging he doesn't poop or pee for like 4 days so it gets all over everybody when they do hang him. He should insist on wearing crotchless pants and not tell anyone why.

[Kralizec]

Tookie Hussein has been framed by overzealous, racist cops. I hope right before the hanging he doesn't poop or pee for like 4 days so it gets all over everybody when they do hang him. He should insist on wearing crotchless pants and not tell anyone why.

Hussein, hurting the Great Satan even after he died

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

He should be Beaten badly then Hanged, some Justice for all of the People He Murderd (not killed, Murdered).

[Ares]

Is it surprising that he got the death sentence? No.

Considering all the innocent people Saddam has tortured and murdered, I think he got off lightly.

[AntiochusIII]

He should be Beaten badly then Hanged, some Justice for all of the People He Murderd (not killed, Murdered).

Ah, I see.

Justice, what an interesting word. So is murder. Lovely primitive instincts, both.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Lightly?? tell me what would have be more Worser then this please??

[Orb]

*is stunned by this turn of events*

I always thought that with all the time he spent helping old ladies across the road and sponsoring orphanages, he would get off scott free.

[Crazed Rabbit]

The other one felt the opposite way, she felt sorry for Hussein and would have marched if there would be a demonstration

Holy crap, talk about disconnection from the real world.

CR

[Ice]

I had a discussiont today with someone. I felt that while I'm against the death penalty, I didn't feel sorry for the guy and wouldn't pick this case to start a protest march. The other one felt the opposite way, she felt sorry for Hussein and would have marched if there would be a demonstration

There are so many things wrong with that, it's quite humorous.

[lancelot]

*is stunned by this turn of events*

I always thought that with all the time he spent helping old ladies across the road and sponsoring orphanages, he would get off scott free.

[Xiahou]

As another poster said, there was zero question about his guilt, but it's a shame that his trial couldn't have more gravitas. The whole thing feels a bit kangaroo-court, which is too bad. Evil, murdering madmen should be smacked down by the full dignity and majesty of the law. Then they can swing.

Anybody care to make a prediction of how this will or won't affect the insurgency?

I dont know how it could've had more "gravitas". The outcome was a forgone conclusion from the very beginning- it's good enough that they at least went thru the motions of a trial. This is the equivelant of someone gunning down a person on the 50yd line during the SuperBowl. Literally everyone knew he was guilty- the trial was a mere formality.

As to his execution... if anyone deserves to be hanged, he does. I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but I'm certainly not going to sweat this- at all.

[IRONxMortlock]

As to his execution... if anyone deserves to be hanged, he does. I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but I'm certainly not going to sweat this- at all.

I know how you feel Xiahou. I am completely opposed to the death penalty though so I don't agree with his execution. Life in prison would be a more fitting punishment for this guy.

As for the "trial" and this sentence, is anyone at all surprised at the result? He was a dead man walking the moment he was captured.

What is curious is the timing of this sentence. If Bill O'Reily can claim North Korea denonated its nuke to influence these US elections can I say this was timed to do something similar?

[Papewaio]

I'm not a fan of the death penalty for joe smith civilian.

I do see a difference for traitors, war crimes and politicians (I don't class them as civilians as politicians should be the ones telling the armed forces what to do, so they are where the buck should stop).

Crimes against the state or those carried out by the state can and should warrant at the highest level a death penalty.

[Kanamori]

Well, I doubt people whispering in the Judge's ear about timing would hit the media, and I can't see anything that would personally give him interest to do so.


When people are hanged so that their neck breaks, I would imagine that the mind works at some level until there is no more oxygen. Painless, probably as far as sensations in the body go, but I bet that my mind would not stay so calm surveying the image around knowing what happened...

[professorspatula]

It's a pity that meddling Skywalker killed the Rancor, or I'd have suggested throwing Saddam into its pit.

[Xiahou]

I'm not a fan of the death penalty for joe smith civilian.

I do see a difference for traitors, war crimes and politicians (I don't class them as civilians as politicians should be the ones telling the armed forces what to do, so they are where the buck should stop).

Crimes against the state or those carried out by the state can and should warrant at the highest level a death penalty.

I pretty much agree with that.

Life in prison would be a more fitting punishment for this guy.

Probably- but it's not practical. As long as he lives, some morons somewhere in Iraq would be dreaming of freeing him/returning him to power. There's only one way permanently quash that line of thinking... I'd guess it's also important for any 'new' Iraq to put Saddam behind them as it were.

[GoreBag]

And he goes the way of the Nazis... good riddance, and hopefully they'll put his execution on pay per view.

Stylish and popular among pseudo-intellectuals?

[IRONxMortlock]

Probably- but it's not practical. As long as he lives, some morons somewhere in Iraq would be dreaming of freeing him/returning him to power. There's only one way permanently quash that line of thinking... I'd guess it's also important for any 'new' Iraq to put Saddam behind them as it were.

However perhaps in death he will help create more instability if he becomes known as maryter?

I am fully against the death penality in every situation but to be honest, I not going to be crying when this scumbag gets the rope.

[caravel]

It seems farcical to the extreme. A puppet government that doesn't even control the country, with a puppet judge conducting a laughable trial... for propaganda purposes. Those in the streets celebrating at Saddam's death, haven't got a clue what's going on, and those demonstrating, in his support, they haven't got a clue either. Yet the media siezes on this imagery as always and uses it. What total and utter B/S. Iraq is a mess and executing this 'has been' is not going to improve it in any way. The whole key to achieving democracy in a country is to first achieve stability. You can't just invade a country, turn it into an anarchistic, highly factional, mess of hate, and paramilitary activity and then hope to install a democracy there. Iraq had far more stability before this war. There were other ways to go about removing this dictator and letting the people found their own democracy. The US and it's allies chose the wrong way.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Oh please, was he fair to all the Kurds and villages he destroyed? killing hundreds of people.

And I don't think Saddam matters to America anymore, they're focused more on Osama Bin Laden. I mean Saddam isn't even news anymore.

Nope, the politically awake are focused on Tuesday's elections and the Saddam verdict matters only to the extent that it may/won't influence the polls.

Most of the rest of America is focused on Dancing with the Stars and the end-game in Survivor!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Spare his life; sent him in a cell and let him died of natural causes, he is more an actual ally in the US war than an opponents. At least, he is still a reminded for the Iraqis what was before. Some optimistic still think things are better now.

His death will be a major mistake. Well, not the US has shown a great deal of management in all this Iraqi adventure, but it could be time to think.

And, of course, the court was not impartial and not fair. However, even if it would, it would have change nothing to the fact he was guilty...

Actually, let's go your idea a notch better and make that: alive in a cell and broadcast it 24-7 on the net. Watching him become a progressively feebler old man (as we all do) will hammer the strongman mystique -- his only remaining threat -- pretty well.

I disagree with the state taking life save in time of war or in the "heat of the moment" in a cops/robbers situation. Tribesy is a bit too snooty in his "we're past that" post above -- sounds too much like the ancient Greeks and their "barbarians" attitude stuff -- but DevDave was baiting him. I don't think the death penalty barbaric, and must acknowledge that it does prevent recidivism, but would prefer the state to take a more detached" course of action.

[CrossLOPER]

And he goes the way of the Nazis... good riddance, and hopefully they'll put his execution on pay per view.

Hell, why not parade him down the street and make it a public event? Wouldn't that be absolutely great?!? I mean there's nothing better than putting a guy's death on public display, right?

[ezrider]

I'd be more interested to see if he actually faces execution. There's an appeals process etc and there has been scepticism on both BBC and Cnn as to whether the sentance will actually be carried out.

In fairness, the charges he was facing were pretty low key stuff considering all the Kurds and marsh arabs he had killed.
No one has mentioned the use of chemical weapons against Iranian civilians and troops in the 80's. I suppose the fact that he was supplied by the US and UK makes it not a crime to gas people.



edit for typos

[yesdachi]

I got a nickel that says some sneaky jailer clicks a photo of him on the neck stretcher and sells it to the Sun for a million bucks.

[ezrider]

I'll take you bet and raise you 5 dollars, what say you? Any other takers?


Edit:
Would it be completely tastless to start taking bets on whether Saddam swings or not?

[Quid]

I'd be more interested to see if he actually faces execution. There's an appeals process etc and there has been scepticism on both BBC and Cnn as to whether the sentance will actually be carried out.

In fairness, the charges he was facing were pretty low key stuff considering all the Kurds and marsh arabs he had killed.
No one has mentioned the use of chemical weapons against Iranian civilians and troops in the 80's. I suppose the fact that he was supplied by the US and UK makes it not a crime to gas people.



edit for typos

This trial has 'only' been about one of the mass murders implicating Saddam. A next trial is already scheduled, as I understand it, involving the gassing of the Kurds.

The appeals process will last another few months, I gather, while he may also have to stand trial for another one of his 'ecapades' of mass murder.

I am not an advocate of the death penalty and I do not think that killing Saddam will change anything inside the country or outside it for the better. It was important to capture him but everything else around the trial has simply been a farce.

Never mind. Good riddance if he will ever go...

Quid

[ezrider]

This trial has 'only' been about one of the mass murders implicating Saddam. A next trial is already scheduled, as I understand it, involving the gassing of the Kurds.

The appeals process will last another few months, I gather, while he may also have to stand trial for another one of his 'ecapades' of mass murder.

I am not an advocate of the death penalty and I do not think that killing Saddam will change anything inside the country or outside it for the better. It was important to capture him but everything else around the trial has simply been a farce.

Never mind. Good riddance if he will ever go...

Quid

So, will Saddam go through these other trials in their entirety, be sentenced again and then be executed. It wouldn't make much sense really. I mean can he be sentenced to multiple deaths or just jail time now.
I would understand how the Kurds could feel cheated if Saddam didn't stand trial for his crimes against them specifically, but he's been sentanced, so just get it over with already. It's not like the procedural flaws in the recent case will save him the gallows.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I'm not at all convinced that the trial has been a farce. Of course, one part of me advocates that the trial should have been held independently at the Hague, but it is equally true that nations emerging from a dictatorship should prosecute those responsible themselves - as both national catharsis and to put their nascent judicial system to the hardest test.

This choice is a tough one.

If the trial is to be held in the country where the crimes were committed (which I must say I tend to favour) then the trial is likely to be flawed - but then almost all trials are. So much the more so for leaders and statesmen. The trick is to minimise the flaws. Unfortunately, because of the mistakes made in general in administering the occupation of Iraq and the spiral into civil war, the trial became both a side-show and even more flawed. Saddam's reasonably fair trial should have been the jewel in the crown of a newly established Iraqi government, providing a break with the past and reassurance in the law for the future.

For those arguing for a swift, non-judicial execution, there are two points I would put forward. First, as Thomas More noted, if you deny the law to the devil, the devil is not bound by law when he turns round on you. Second, the prosecution of heads of state has always been a thorny issue - mostly, international law protects heads of state from prosecution by other powers. If it did not, President Bush and many others would find themselves arrested on a regular basis.

For example, General Pinochet, at least as nasty a dictator as Saddam (and one-time good buddy too) was finally allowed to leave the UK after just such a legal attempt to hold him responsible for the deaths and torture he caused. Why isn't that nasty old man about to swing from a rope? Largely because his own country has not found itself capable of bringing the prosecution itself, and no foreign power has invaded to do the job for them.

This is as it should be (even though Pinochet is one of many people's "first against the wall" choices) otherwise anarchy would prevail in international relations.

So the trial of a head of state is not clear cut: The crimes he commits may be obvious crimes, but Saddam's defence - that he had the right as head of state - is a defense that deserves to be properly heard. It does not provide a "get-out-of-jail-free" card, but requires that motive and situation be properly examined by the people who his actions affected.