Serbia in Medieval II

[KARTLOS]

Istanbul seems a great cultural capital too IMDHO.

IMDHO - does this mean In My Humble Opinion?

yes of course it is stilll an important city, and there is alot to see. however if it had been reclaimed for the west 100 or so years ago then i think it would be one of the most signigant cities in the world. as it is many cultures in the region are cut off from their spiritual homeland.

[Papewaio]

IMDHO = In My DisHonourable Opinion

I disagree with the idea that it would have been greater if it was Christian. Nor do I think Christianity is as tied to a single location as others, I would think that there are more important places. Constinapole was important as a trade center and capital, the religous aspect follows those two very closely... ie wherever the people and the wealth is so shall ye find the religion.

So the religion of the city is a secondary characteristic and is because it is a great city, the city is not great because of religion.

[KARTLOS]

IMDHO = In My DisHonourable Opinion

I disagree with the idea that it would have been greater if it was Christian. Nor do I think Christianity is as tied to a single location as others, I would think that there are more important places. Constinapole was important as a trade center and capital, the religous aspect follows those two very closely... ie wherever the people and the wealth is so shall ye find the religion.

So the religion of the city is a secondary characteristic and is because it is a great city, the city is not great because of religion.

im not religious myself, and i dont think it is important for constantinople to be "chrisitian", i just feel that it is a shame that it was not returned to its western greek origins.
people in europe do not look towards towards istanbul with favour as it is part of turkey their historic (islamic) opressors. The point is that despite turkeys secular pretensions, most of the non-islams were murdered/forced out of the country during the formation of the current state of turkey. as such constanople is stuck in a mono-cultural nation and gives little sense of belonging to its western neighbours. if it was currently part of a european nation then i think it would be much more of a magnet in the region.

[dragomix]

I heard some rumors that serbia will be loct for play, or it will be playble in total realisam mod. Is that true? And something about Istambul (constantinopolj), if someone could just give back Aja Sofija. That was the bigest Pravoslav Circh in the world.

[Kavhan Isbul]

Oh no, I do not want to change any of the current borders in the world, and on the Balkans in particular. We have the game for that. I have been to Turkey a few times and I do not look upon the Turkish as my former oppressors, I look at them as neighbors, in a similar boat such as my own country. And Constantinople is a great city, perhaps thanks to the Ottomans - it was in decay before they captured it. Sure, they put minarets on Haggia Sophia, but to tell the truth, they did far less damage to the churches than the Christian Crusaders (who simply plundered anything they could lay their hands on, including mosaics pieces). Thanks to the Fourth Crusade, you can see more from the former Eastern Roman Capital in Venice, than in Istanbul today. At least this is what I found out after visiting both places. And as much as I would have preferred fort he Ottomans to stay in Anatolia and never copme over, I admire the achievements of their Empire while it was still on the rise, until the early 17th century. It was with its decay that the athrocities against the Christians in their lands really started, during the conquests the Ottomans treated the newly conquered population quite well, and much better than the Crusading Hunagrians or Poles (who unlike the Ottomans were extremely religiously intolerant), and the Venetians in Greece.
Anyway, back to the topic. The history of Eastern Europe during the Middle Ages is just as fascinating as the history of Western Europe. Unfortunately, in this game the emphasis is placed heavily on the west and the 100 years war, the Reconquista and the relations between the HRE and the Papacy. The East is included only as a crusading detsination and is misrepresented as a place full of underdevelopped regions full of insignificant factions and rebels, from where hordes of Muslims and Mongols appear to provide a continental challenge for the Western Catholics when they were on the verge of collonizing the New World. At least this is my impression from all the previews of the game so far.
The Orthodox states are given an isignificant role in this game, but in reality it is good to keep in mind that if it was not for the Eastern Roman Empire, the Bulgarians, the Serbs and the Russians to act as a buffer between Europe and invaders from Asia, Europe may have never moved out of the so called Dark Ages (which were not so dark in East). Apart from historical inaccuracy, I think this detracts from the game as it leaves it sort of one-dimensional and takes a lot of diversity out. The poor city name selection (using modern names as opposed to Medieval ones, and including cities that were built late in the Middle Ages and were insignificant compared to others) further takes away from the game, as it ruins the atmosphere. Little details, but they are so easy to fix, only if someone does a few hours of research.

[dragomix]

You are compleatly right. And I hate moust when West Europians look at us like we are some underdevelopped region whit no history. They look at all Ortodox (especial Catholics) like we are their enemy.

[Innocentius]

The Orthodox states are given an isignificant role in this game, but in reality it is good to keep in mind that if it was not for the Eastern Roman Empire, the Bulgarians, the Serbs and the Russians to act as a buffer between Europe and invaders from Asia, Europe may have never moved out of the so called Dark Ages (which were not so dark in East).

That's not completely correct. Moving out of the "Dark ages" was quite inevitable, as evolution is something that happens one way or the other. I am probably not as good at eastern European history as you are, but for what I know, the only real "threat" to western Europe by the late 5th and early 6th century was the muslims. They were stopped in the east by the Byzantines, and in the west by Charlemagne (these are of course simplifications, reality is never easy).
But if the muslims had conquered Europe, I don't see why these lands shouldn't have moved out of the Dark age. The muslims at this time were far more technologically and military advanced than the Europeans, so this would have taken wester Europe out of the Dark ages as well, just in another way.

The way you wrote it, it seems like you are talking about the medieval times ("invaders from Asia"), by which time even western Europe had moved out of the Dark ages.

You are compleatly right. And I hate moust when West Europians look at us like we are some underdevelopped region whit no history. They look at all Ortodox (especial Catholics) like we are their enemy.

I'm neither Catholic nor western European, and I don't know the exact relationship between catholics and orthodox christians, but one must remember that the catholics and orthodox christians didn't approach each other in a "less hostile", or even friendly way untill the 20th century. Before that there was a thousand years of rivalry between Rome and Constantinople.

[Miloshus]

You are compleatly right. And I hate moust when West Europians look at us like we are some underdevelopped region whit no history. They look at all Ortodox (especial Catholics) like we are their enemy.

You are right,but you cant expect the country like Serbia wich was from 15th century under Turkish command till 1815, when Serbes destroyed Turks and got their independance, and lost half of population during the first and second world war to be rich and developed region.


And try to correct your spelling