Serbia in Medieval II

[dragomix]

Brate i ima nas. Sad su mi rekli na forumu sveta kompjutera. Nemoj da im drzis lekciju iz istorije ja sam vec to uradio.

I heard that Serbia will be in the game so JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I am sory about Bulgaria and others like Croati who had medieval states on balkans in that period. If you want you could play the game with Serbia.

[LegioScythia]

Well, Innocentius, the threat could not have been in the 5th century, for that was the time of the great migrations, and two centuries before Mohammed was even born. The Arabs became a serious thread only in the 8th century, and despite French myths about the significance of the battle at Tours, they were really stopped in the East and never allowed to establish a foothold in Europe here. The turks were at the doorsteps of the Eastern Roman Empire probably even before that - the Avars were already in nowadays Hungary. The Byzantines were able to stop first the Arabs, and then wave after of wave of Turks, until they were attacked from the Crusaders and finally ruined. In the emantime theyw ere able to convert us and the Russians to Christians. Imagine a Muslim Russia - scary, right?

What would have happened if the Eastern Roman Empire was not as a wall in front of the Arabs on their way to Europe, we cannot know what would have happened. There would have been no Rennaisance for sure. Just before the Ottoman invasion of the Balkans, there are frescoes in churches that suggest that these lands were on the brink of the Rennaisance. After their conquest, it arrived as late as the late 18th or even early 19th century. Also, in the 14th century, Bulgaria and England both had an estimated population of approximately 2.6 million people. In 1878, when we were liberated, we were still 2.6 million, and I believe England was more than 20. You are perhaps right that Europe would have moved out of the Dark Ages, but it might still be stick in the Middle Ages, if the Arabs were not stopped in Asia Minor.

The only contribution of the West in all this was to ruin the main buffer between Europe and the Asian invaders, which allowed tha letter to lay two sieges to Vienna. And this was at a time when Europe had developped itself significantly, trade was flourishing and the New World with its resources was discovered. If the Eastern Roman Empire was gone earlier, and the Pagan Slavs and Turks in the east were converted to Muslims, the chances of the Franks to stop the spread of Islam coming from all sides and converting the Pagans in Central Europe and the North would have been a very hard, not to say impossible task.

Vladimir I of Kiev
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great
had the option to either adopt Judaism Islam or christianity (catholic or Orthodox) he chose christianity although i deeply respect Muslims i wouldn't wanna be one

[Innocentius]

Well, Innocentius, the threat could not have been in the 5th century, for that was the time of the great migrations, and two centuries before Mohammed was even born. The Arabs became a serious thread only in the 8th century, and despite French myths about the significance of the battle at Tours, they were really stopped in the East and never allowed to establish a foothold in Europe here. The turks were at the doorsteps of the Eastern Roman Empire probably even before that - the Avars were already in nowadays Hungary. The Byzantines were able to stop first the Arabs, and then wave after of wave of Turks, until they were attacked from the Crusaders and finally ruined. In the emantime theyw ere able to convert us and the Russians to Christians. Imagine a Muslim Russia - scary, right?

What would have happened if the Eastern Roman Empire was not as a wall in front of the Arabs on their way to Europe, we cannot know what would have happened. There would have been no Rennaisance for sure. Just before the Ottoman invasion of the Balkans, there are frescoes in churches that suggest that these lands were on the brink of the Rennaisance. After their conquest, it arrived as late as the late 18th or even early 19th century. Also, in the 14th century, Bulgaria and England both had an estimated population of approximately 2.6 million people. In 1878, when we were liberated, we were still 2.6 million, and I believe England was more than 20. You are perhaps right that Europe would have moved out of the Dark Ages, but it might still be stick in the Middle Ages, if the Arabs were not stopped in Asia Minor.

The only contribution of the West in all this was to ruin the main buffer between Europe and the Asian invaders, which allowed tha letter to lay two sieges to Vienna. And this was at a time when Europe had developped itself significantly, trade was flourishing and the New World with its resources was discovered. If the Eastern Roman Empire was gone earlier, and the Pagan Slavs and Turks in the east were converted to Muslims, the chances of the Franks to stop the spread of Islam coming from all sides and converting the Pagans in Central Europe and the North would have been a very hard, not to say impossible task.

Got me on the first one, though I knew Mohammed wasn't born untill the late 6th century, however the Dark ages were the late 4th to late 8th century. By the time of the Battle of Tours (a significant battle or not) there were already established kingdoms in western Europe, and the "Dark" age was no more.

I know that the Byzantine empire (I preffer to make a difference from the Eastern Roman Empire, as their could only have been an eastern empire if there was a western counterpart) held off muslims and other invaders from Asia, but I don't really belive that it would have been impossible for the western Europeans to hold off the muslims since:
Western European armies in the medieval period are hugely underestimated by the majority of people, this common (and un-true) opinion reflects in several books. For example take David Nicolle's Osprey books about Nicopolis 1396 and Peipus Lake in 1242. Both times the defeats of the western armies are explained roughly like "the russians/turks were superior to the clumsy knights from Europe".
That's a shame, however that's not the point, what I wanted to say was that I belive at least the Franks hade a military power great enough to hold off some less enthousiastic invaders (I don't see why they should have any interest in some underdeveloped forestal farmlands to the far north). And many lands conquered by the muslims had actually greeted them as liberators rather than invaders, which greatly eased the muslim expansion in the 7th century.

[DukeofSerbia]

This thread is catastrophy.

@dragomix
Why you opened this? I told you in SK forum to not do that. We already discussed about it.

Bože...

[dragomix]

Nisam znao covece nisam znao. Kad si mi ti reko vec je bilo kasno. SORY.

[dragomix]

There is a good side of this story, and that is: this thread is in the first place on the forum for 3-4 days.

[Miloshus]

Brate i ima nas. Sad su mi rekli na forumu sveta kompjutera. Nemoj da im drzis lekciju iz istorije ja sam vec to uradio.

I heard that Serbia will be in the game so JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I am sory about Bulgaria and others like Croati who had medieval states on balkans in that period. If you want you could play the game with Serbia.

Kako ima? U nekim modu ili u orginalnoj verziji?

Why would you be sorry about Croats, they didnt have a medieval state back then !

[dragomix]

U modu valjda, ali nas ima 100%. Toliko sam razumeo. Idi na forum Sveta Kompjutera tamo je sve objasnjeno.

[Mithrandir]

Please stick to the English language so everyone can join in the discussion.

-Mithrandir

[dragomix]

OK SORY

[Miloshus]

Sorry I Just Clean Forgot

[Arbaces]

With around 10 (?) free faction slots we are all going to be able to get our dream-factions ingame much easier then in RTW. Personally I'd be very interested to see the Serbs and at least one Romanian faction in-game even though I'll have to work on this myself as soon as the packs and models will be available.

Arbaces.

[Ivanjedini]

I recently played excellent and if I dare to say the best Medieval 2 Total War mod New Teuton, but I need to ask why did they switch Serbia for Sweden?