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Thread: No collision detection in M2tw.

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  1. #1
    Harbinger of... saliva Member alpaca's Avatar
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    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    Isn't there a 2d collision detection? Like, when two soldiers try to stand in the same place they can't?
    Anyways, what would much larger units do for realism? If you play on huge, you already get very large armies and it doesn't change that much during a battle

  2. #2

    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    There is no need for collision detection as the game decides on hits from it defence vs attack stats engine. Collision detection is very resource hungry, imagine having to cheack 6000 soldiers for collision detection each cycle.

    They may actually hit each other graphically, but "collision detection" is a graphics computing term and means something specific.

  3. #3
    Member Member Phalaxar's Avatar
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    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpaca
    Isn't there a 2d collision detection? Like, when two soldiers try to stand in the same place they can't?
    Anyways, what would much larger units do for realism? If you play on huge, you already get very large armies and it doesn't change that much during a battle
    Yes, I believe they do have a footprint (a 2D collision area on the ground). But seeing if corners overlap is much easier for small, simple (mathematically simple) 2D shapes than for 3D shapes with hundreds of verteces and a lot of weird angles.

    I think it's great that CA are throwing thinking at this, rather than just brute computing power.

  4. #4

    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalaxar
    Yes, I believe they do have a footprint (a 2D collision area on the ground). But seeing if corners overlap is much easier for small, simple (mathematically simple) 2D shapes than for 3D shapes with hundreds of verteces and a lot of weird angles.

    I think it's great that CA are throwing thinking at this, rather than just brute computing power.
    It's an octagon unless that's been simplified along with all the other simplifications made in the new battle engine. The thing I find strange is that in the M2TW demo it seems men are taking turns fighting. I see extra men who could be striking at an enemy waiting until the two men fighting finish. In the earlier games such as STW, extra men would crowd around a lone enemy, and they would all be striking at him within a single combat cycle.
    Last edited by Puzz3D; 11-07-2006 at 01:19.

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  5. #5

    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    I've seen that too, and it is frustrating seeing my guys get slaughtered one by one by King Francis when they could all bum rush him and take him down in a glorious melee.

  6. #6
    Insanity perhaps is inevitable Member shifty157's Avatar
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    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puzz3D
    I see extra men who could be striking at an enemy waiting until the two men fighting finish. In the earlier games such as STW, extra men would crowd around a lone enemy, and they would all be striking at him within a single combat cycle.
    Thats not good at all and should be fixed in a patch as soon as physically possible. Taking turns to fight in little duels completely removes any advantage numbers may have given.

  7. #7

    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    Quote Originally Posted by shifty157
    Thats not good at all and should be fixed in a patch as soon as physically possible. Taking turns to fight in little duels completely removes any advantage numbers may have given.
    It does remove a lot of the advantage of having more men because the lone man can only strike at one of his attackers within a combat cycle, and with battlefield upgrades you can see how a man could become almost invincible as he kills one man after another if the other unit is of a weaker type. To be fair, I have seen double attacks by men, but my impression from watching a couple of encounters is that they are hesitant to do it. It seemed to me that unengaged men should be more aggressive about striking at an enemy man. I suppose it's possible this is one of the mechanisms that CA used to slow down combat resolution.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    In medieval 1, if my memory is right, only two troopers could gang up on an other trooper. this, of course led to powerful generals being able to hold out for an insane amount of time even when completely surrounded by infantry who hould be able to drag him down from the horse and finish him quickly.

  9. #9
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puzz3D
    It does remove a lot of the advantage of having more men because the lone man can only strike at one of his attackers within a combat cycle, and with battlefield upgrades you can see how a man could become almost invincible as he kills one man after another if the other unit is of a weaker type. To be fair, I have seen double attacks by men, but my impression from watching a couple of encounters is that they are hesitant to do it. It seemed to me that unengaged men should be more aggressive about striking at an enemy man. I suppose it's possible this is one of the mechanisms that CA used to slow down combat resolution.
    I'm pretty sure there was a similar mechanism in RTW. I think at most two men engaged a single opponent at a time.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    Quote Originally Posted by shifty157
    Thats not good at all and should be fixed in a patch as soon as physically possible. Taking turns to fight in little duels completely removes any advantage numbers may have given.
    Yes, I agree, this sounds like a very cheesy game mechanic. I hope it's not how the game actually works.

  11. #11
    Member Member Phalaxar's Avatar
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    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    I do think that it's sensible for there to be some upper limit, probably depending on the unit - more than two ponies against one ickle soldier probably won't fit round (if they've only got swords), and maybe three or four infantry against like? Maybe 5 or 6 halberdiers/pikemen.
    But it is a pretty low number that can properly engage just one opponent at once I reckon.

  12. #12
    Member Member hoom's Avatar
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    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    I'm pretty sure that STW had a limit of 2 vs 1 per combat round.
    Same with MTW as mentioned, it is the reason for Jedi Generals; a general can only be attacked by 2 of the weaker unit at a time so it is very hard to actually get a kill.
    maybe those guys should be doing something more useful...

  13. #13

    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    what would much larger units do for realism?
    Realistic numbers = more realistic set piece battles and tactics with much greater game immersion, imo. In RTW in an attempt to immerse myself in the game, I imagined I was a lowly legion commander, albeit in charge of an under strength legion.

  14. #14

    Default Re: No collision detection in M2tw.

    Quote Originally Posted by alpaca
    Isn't there a 2d collision detection? Like, when two soldiers try to stand in the same place they can't?
    I'm pretty sure that, by "collision detection", they mean "weapon and target collision detection", like, in RTW, hoplite would actually aim and touch their ennemy with their spears, and the spear would connect.
    As I understand it, in MTW2, there is simply one animation for "attack" for the attacker, one animation of "defense" for the defenser, and the weapon of the attacker isn't detected for collision (which means it can sometimes be a bit off-target).

    If I guessed correctly, it's a minor graphical change of little impact that save a lot of computer power, and it totally unrelated with actual unit collision detection.
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