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Thread: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

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    Tovenaar Senior Member The Wizard's Avatar
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    Default The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    Some of you may have known about the often-toted division of the world by Muslims into two Houses: dar al-Islam -- the House of Islam -- and dar al-harb -- the House of Struggle or War. This assumption is oft repeated by both Islamic fundamentalists (or not even those radicals alone) and Western sources, too (even scholars: I most recently read something about it on thearma.org referring to the Crusades).

    Yet this division, so easily termed "Muslim", is not mentioned a single time, not even indirectly, in the Qur'an, the Hadith, or the Sunnah.

    So where does it come from? Who thought it up, and why? I want to know, because it's starting to smell increasingly foul, another member of the family of corruptions of Islam by radicals and fundamentalists.
    "It ain't where you're from / it's where you're at."

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    Guest Stig's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    Sounds like the same things as Catholics and Protestants to me, dunno much about it tho

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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on
    So where does it come from? Who thought it up, and why? I want to know, because it's starting to smell increasingly foul, another member of the family of corruptions of Islam by radicals and fundamentalists.
    All I know is that the terms do not occur in either the Quran or the Hadith. Beware of Internet junk. If you think you smell a rat and you want to be sure, it will not do to simply Google for it. I think you should go to a good library, take out some handbooks and see if they tell you how the particular use of the word started.
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    Member Member Del Arroyo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    It is the assertion that the world consists of the people who follow Islam (which means submission or surrender to God), and those who struggle against Islam and are to blame for all strife and struggle. If you believe that your way is the one right, pure, and perfect way it is a very easy concept to accept. It's not anywhere in the Qur'aan or the Hadeeth, nor should it be. It is an Islamist talking point, same as "War on Terror" and "Axis of Evil" have been US talking points.

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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    I'd guess it developed through pretty much the exact same dynamics and practical necessities that once made Christians divide the world to "Christendom" and "Pagans & Infidels", and decide making as much of the latter part of the former as possible, if need be "with boot and blade" (to paraphrase Minsk from Baldur's Gate), was a really neat idea...

    But then, Buddhists have gone on pseudo-crusades and settled their disputes with private temple armies too. Ecce homo.
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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    if I recall the Buddhists were none to happy with the Jesuits spreading Christianity in Japan, and made every effort to destroy it, and appealed to the Shogunate to outlaw it.

    And while they did a pretty good job of doing away with Christianity, small sects have remained in Kyushu since the time it was outlawed. Originally they would hold sermons in caves, but after the meiji period the Christians sort of resurfaced and about 10% of the population in Kyushu consider themselves Christians today.

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    Tovenaar Senior Member The Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    It is an Islamist talking point, same as "War on Terror" and "Axis of Evil" have been US talking points.
    That was my assumption, as well. It seems that dar al-harb was not first mentioned until the 13th century, when the Islamic world was cracking and crumbling on all sides under the onslaught of the Mongols. The coming of the terms to what they are now are likely the result of the teachings of Sayyid Qutb...
    Last edited by The Wizard; 11-20-2006 at 23:07.
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    Default Re: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    Every time you define an "us", a "them" automatically springs into existence.
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    Default Re: The Houses Theory of "Islam" -- where does it come from?

    This seemed to me an interesting question and I certainly sympathize with Baba's implicit assertion that the concept of the two "Houses" is a fundamentalist innovation: certainly, as far as I can tell, there is no direct reference to it in the Qu'ran, the Hadith, or the Sunnah.

    However, after some research, I have discovered that it is indeed a "classical" Islamic formulation, i.e., it dates from an early period in Islamic history -- specifically from the eighth century, with commentary extending all the way to the twelfth century, essentially encompassing the golden years of the Abbasid Caliphate.

    According to the source I consulted (recommended to me by a professor of Islamic Studies at the university where I teach, since I am far from being an expert) the "Two Houses" formulation can be included in that body of commentary known as the Siyar. It was developed by prominent Islamic jurists to deal with the various contingencies raised by the realities of imperial rule and was intended to provide a guide (using the Qu'ran, the Hadith, and the Sunnah as primary sources) to the conduct of international relations. According to my source (I provide the reference below), since the Siyar is based on the above sacred texts/sources, it can be considered "an extension of the Shari'ah, or Divine Law."(1)

    The Muslim jurist who first used the term Siyar was the well-known Abu Hanifa (who did, apparently, comment on the theory of the "Two Houses" in the eighth century), but it was one of his students, Muhammad ibn al-Hasan who wrote on it "extensively and systematically." A famous commentary was later also written by Shams al-Din Muhammad ibn Ahmad Sarakhsi.(2)


    (1)Ralph H. Salmi, Cesar Adib Majul, and George K Tanham, Islam and Conflict Resolution: Theories and Practices (Lanham, MD: University Press of America, 1998), 66.
    (2) Ibid.
    Last edited by Boulis; 11-30-2006 at 18:32.

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