England Faction Campaigners..

[Monarch]

Thereres no specific place to post guides yet, but just thought I'd make a thread for us boring guys who picked England first :P

First of all, not boring at all! I think England needs an aggressive pre emptive strike on Scotland first, which I failed to do. ATM I have Scots to North, French to South (and the pope is french), Danes (who have destroyed the hre) to east (they attacked me, I didn't want to be at war with them)and one of my armies is currently travelling to a crusade, by foot, currently in eastern europe.

I'm only on freakin medium/medium! I'm doing fine, but still I was expecting a nice simple introduction on medium.

I've got Caen and Nottingham as main troops producers, a few more castles but mainly cities. Btw, occassionally on rome I liked to turn fow off just to check out the campaign map, only for a quick 2 secs to see the state of play, anybody worked out how to do this yet?

[supersalsa]

little bit off topic but how u got it already. I in UK and i got to wait til the 24th of november

[monkian]

little bit off topic but how u got it already. I in UK and i got to wait til the 24th of november

Pre-ordering is your friend

[myz]

Just wondering, are the billmen heads and shoulders above other heavy infantry?

[scourgeofrome]

Danes (who have destroyed the hre)

. Yay for the Danes.

[econ21]

Just wondering, are the billmen heads and shoulders above other heavy infantry?

In the demo, they seemed far inferior to the dismounted Chivalric knights, although you may not consider the latter "infantry" per se.

[myz]

Aren't the billmen supposed to be the guys that make english infantry the best of the period? (hence their lack of cavalry) If the billmen are dwarfed, then what's the advantage of being English other than longbowmen?

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I'm assuming billmen are substantially cheaper, have lower upkeep, and can also be recruited in far greater numbers (thanks to the recruitment pool system) than footknights.

Chivalric Foot Knights in MTW were a lot better than Billmen, but the build requirements and high cost of fielding a larger number of the former meant that you were unlikely to see whole armies of them.

[Lusted]

Yup, billmen can be fielded in large numbers, many more than the dismounted knights and armoured swordsmen can.

[Throumbaris]

I love the english! But im afraid im not much of a player to post any guides.
I havent attacked scotland yet since im focused on rebels and the french peninsula right now, i havent gone too far in the campaign yet.

[astonkiller]

supersalsa just go to game on fri the 10th nov your be very happy.iam going there at 9.00am tomorrow

[myz]

what about billmen compared to the best nonknightly heavy infantry of other factions? What about billmen compared to say, zweihanders, or janisaris, sword and buckler men, pikemen(from this region or that, seems so many of them)?

[maestro]

My billmen just got pasted by bleedin armour upgraded Levy Pikemen OK, it was two squads of billmen against 2 pikeys and two crossbows, and the billmen had just finished off the rebel general's heavy cavalry bodyguard, but still

I just brought my 4 units of pikeys from reserver and charged them from the rear with my general.

[myz]

billmen are underpowered, it seems.

[econ21]

what about billmen compared to the best nonknightly heavy infantry of other factions? What about billmen compared to say, zweihanders, or janisaris, sword and buckler men, pikemen(from this region or that, seems so many of them)?

Historically, I'd be inclined to say the billmen should lose against most of the above but I may be wrong. Billmen should generally be lower quality fighters than most of the above and less heavily armoured. Pikemen might be comparable, but my money would be on a phalanx over a bill if it was a head-to-head scrap. Of your list, I'd only really expect the billmen to splat the sword and bucklers, although apparently M2TW intends the latter to be uber pike-killers (whereas historically, I think they were not so successful, at least against the Swiss pikes). Soon I'll have the game and be able to give you the cold hard numbers in game , although to my mind the historical reality is the more interesting question.

[AussieGiant]

Well I'd keep in mind there are 4 levels of Billmen each with it's own set of armour and weapon upgrades.

I'd agree with the result when you tell me they were Bill Militia or even Billmen given it was 4 against 2 and your 2 Bil units were already reduced from killing the Generals body guard.

I'd expect Heavy Billmen to give any other Heavy infantry a run for their money. But please note...any dismounted Knight unit would be an ugly confrontation with the slight advantage being with the knights unit with all things being equal.

[anders]

sword and buckler men were supposedly effective against pike when they rolled under the pikes and got inside the pikemens ranks.

btw. theres no rason they should be weak against other infantry, should be goos duelists except for a certain lack of reach and armor.

[econ21]

sword and buckler men were supposedly effective against pike when they rolled under the pikes and got inside the pikemens ranks.

I heard if failed at least as often as it worked. The Swiss would not have had the reputation they had if sword and buckler men could have just reliably rolled under their pikes and slaughtered them. If such a counter-measure to the phalanx was a sure thing, it's not exactly rocket science, so other factions could have imitated it.

btw. theres no rason they should be weak against other infantry, should be goos duelists except for a certain lack of reach and armor.

Exactly. I think there's a reason most infantry went for reach weapons and armour. I only an armchair expert, but I imagine a plate armoured man with a polearm is pretty much the pinnacle of a one on one melee fighter. Neither the buckler nor the sword seem much of a defence against a polearm, while the sword is not the ideal weapon to damage plate.

[Freedom Onanist]

Hmmm... Looks to me like the Longbow has been neutered as well. Their rate of fire is pants. Not sure about the damage they might be doing, since they pnly ever get one shot off against most opponents! I think there is balancing issue going on here. How do you simulate the bow's ability to fire out effectively out to +200 yards whilst not running out of arrows in the game?

[Barny Bangs]

First of all, not boring at all! I think England needs an aggressive pre emptive strike on Scotland first, which I failed to do. ATM I have Scots to North, French to South (and the pope is french), Danes (who have destroyed the hre) to east (they attacked me, I didn't want to be at war with them)and one of my armies is currently travelling to a crusade, by foot, currently in eastern europe.

Some quick remarks for anyone trying their hands on an in-depth guide for the English:

Start off with sending a large force to York, before the Scots have any chances of taking the city. Afterwards, I took the other rebel settlements only after I was given the mission to do so, as some of the rewards you get come in handy (money, money and money. Ah yes and some troops.) The armies waited for example outside of Dublin, after I got the "go", I sacked it and recieved 3000 Gulden bonus.

Crush the Scots as soon as possible, at least before they head north or west. I actually attacked them in the fifth turn and was – as it turned out – rather lucky. I took on their border forces, wiped them out and killed all prisoners. In the same turn I began my siege of Edinburgh, being aware, that the main part of the Scottish troops lingered near. As expected, their main army attacked me during their turnphase, with their meager garrison sallying forth. Bringing not that much men to the battle, it was a long and hard fight, with the Scots charging downhill out of the woods. I only won after killing their king and oone of the other generals, making Edinburgh mine and wiping the Scots off the map.

After that, I took my time conquering the rest of the Isles, keeping only Nottingham as a castle and turning the rest of the provinces in city cash cows.

At the same time I raised an large army on the continent, brought in my heir by ship and headed for Rennes. The French army was on my heels, so I attacked Rennes with only a handful of siege weapons and after a bitter fight Rennes was mine.

In the following turns I learned the importance of a good navy. Controlling the channel seems crucial for English success, as all of my archers are trained in Nottingham and have to be ferried over to the continent regularily. Yet large Rebel navies and later the Danish navy chased me over the sea more than a few times. Only after produvcing a large navy and sealing off the Channel entrances, was I able to have some peace there.

The French, meeting stiff opposition in Brugge, tried to expand south, as Milan took Metz. Yet, laying siege to the northern province of the iberian peninsula (forgot the name), a large rebel army with a six star general appeared out of nowhere and whooped some Frenchie-butt. After some minor skirmishes between Moors, Portugal and Spain, the three factions formed alliances (!), the Spaniards even gave the Moors military access, who headed north towards French territory. In some huge battles in the Pyrenaes, the French fought back the Moors, yet were left nearly defenseless themselves.

The HRE got into trouble very soon, declaring war on Venice and Milan, while being harrassed up north by the Danes. At this time the pope called for the first crusade to Jerusalem, but being military-wise rather stretched out, it took me too long to raise an adequate army, resulting in Venice taking Jerusalem with my Crusader-Army still stuck near Rhodos. The Egyptian navy beat me up good, nearly wiping out the fleet including the army. My General fled with his troops to Rhodos (only Rebel settlement in sight) and sit there till this day (no port so far).

In the meantime, I bolstered my secret service, accepting the invitation of the assassin guild and sent my killers to Europe. After some training my two star murderers thinned out the cardinal-college quite nicely. My priests, having gained experience in Moor country, got promoted to cardinals, leaving me with a papal candidate and four votes in the next election.

Meanwhile, Sicily and the Danes got excommunicated, both attacking Christian factions (Danes vs. HRE, Sicily vs. the Pope himself, go figure). Being on good terms with the pope, I asked him for a crusade to Neaples, which he willingly accepted. Unfortunately as my troops besieged the walls of Neaples the pope died, lifting the ban on Sicily and Denmark. Fortunately I stole the elcetion and now am the bestest pope-buddy ever.

The Danes, not being keen on keeping on good terms with the pope, declared war on me after taking Antwerpen and Brugge (was too slow on these). Currently they stand near Caen, with my army laying a nice ambush in the nearby woods.

In regard to money, I haven't any problems too big to handle, as the Noblemen's Guild and the pope donate to my cause. Yet my merchants are not that good. Being not exactly sure what raises the skill level of merchants, I had many of them, whch got Daimler'ed by other high-level merchants.

My assassins continue to rule the continent, taking out priests, princesses and imams. When the opportunity opens itself I meddle in other battles by killing off the generals of factions I don't want to win (mostly the French and the Milanese).

My family has grown substantially, mostly thanks to my adopted sons, who breed like rabbits (one has six daughters and two sons!) and the quick marriages of my other sons. No problems with loyality anywhere, as my king is quite an authority figure with a top-notch fear rating.

That's all so far after 40 something turns of M2TW bliss. Hope some of it is helpful, some other stuff is just for the heck of it.

Would be nice if some other people could post their experiences for comparison and joyful reading.

[parcelt]

Awesome report Barny!!

what difficulty were you playing?

[Barny Bangs]

I am playing on hard / hard. Veteran since Shogun Total War, but Very hard sounded like to much a´challange

[BazOokaKing]

It's not. I'm playing on very hard/ very hard. Wiped out the Scottish within 6 turns. Kind of sucked really. I wanted them to be a challenge. Only ten turns in so maybe things will change. But at moment very easy.

[Monarch]

Well why not let the AI build up a bit. I know a common house rule alot of people used in Rome was never to initiate wars. I did this and although I've taken out Scotland now they do make a half decent army or two, enough to distract all your efforts from the French, which in turn gives the French a hand in their war against you.

I've got France pretty crippled now, the popes even called a Crusade against Toulouse (which I obviously jumped upon the chance to get an army quickly to a cioty that was very unprotected).

Denmakr is annoying me the most. Because they're basically all the way down my Eastern border they're constantly sieging me. But I like to take one war at a time, so whilst I've France it still alive I can't do too much. Although I am in the process of filling their cities with spies.

Also something very interesting that I never got on Rome, the heir to the Danish throne sent me a "mission" to kill his father (the faction leader) and then he would stop the war and give me money.

[R'as al Ghul]

Also something very interesting that I never got on Rome, the heir to the Danish throne sent me a "mission" to kill his father (the faction leader) and then he would stop the war and give me money.

That's very nice. Seems there's much more depth and possibilities in diplomacy.

[SIGGE]

I just let the danes to take my French towns, that I had taken after about 13turns and concentrated on the isles. It was great tactic. Now I have all the time over 30k money, all the Scots destroyed, because I could concentrate 100% on them and enough army to attack France and beat them.

I've also made Pope happy all the time by joining crusades (though I only fought once) and accomplishing missions that he told me to do.

[Biggus Diccus]

Also something very interesting that I never got on Rome, the heir to the Danish throne sent me a "mission" to kill his father (the faction leader) and then he would stop the war and give me money.

Wow! Amazing! Can't wait to install the game later tonight!

[BazOokaKing]

Well why not let the AI build up a bit. I know a common house rule alot of people used in Rome was never to initiate wars. I did this and although I've taken out Scotland now they do make a half decent army or two, enough to distract all your efforts from the French, which in turn gives the French a hand in their war against you.

That's actually a good idea. I'm going to do that next time.

[Dutch_guy]

Also something very interesting that I never got on Rome, the heir to the Danish throne sent me a "mission" to kill his father (the faction leader) and then he would stop the war and give me money.

That's an awesome mission/feature right there !

PS: Would you be able to ask the same of the other factions, if say, your current leader is crack brained or something like that ?

[Drake]

Start off by pulling out of caen, shipping the General and his troops back across the channel and use them to take York. Caen? Give it to the French as a gift! They'll love you, the water separates you so you can havea tasty long trade relationship worth lots of money while they have to pay to build up Caen, defend it and extend themselves further.

Meanwhile, you are lef tin peace to take Wales, York, and build up to attack Scotland. The trick with the future Mel Gibson movie materials is to just hold off until you can hit them with two armies. Scotland only ever builds one big army early on, so once thats dead and gone, Edinburgh and Inverness are yours to mop up, followed by Ireland.

From there just research, build up your forces and gradually start invading the continent. Bruges is a good first target as it typically stays rebel for longish.