Official list of factions and Q&A about them

[Cousin Zoidfarb]

the volga bulgars were a minor state and had little impact on history.
the teutonic knights shaped modern europe.
the khanate of transoxania? never heard of it, name one historical ruler of this nation.

[kataphraktoi]

the volga bulgars were a minor state and had little impact on history.
the teutonic knights shaped modern europe.
the khanate of transoxania? never heard of it, name one historical ruler of this nation.

Unimportant for the ignorant...perhaps you'd like to go up against Orda Khan?

Volga Bulgar was a prosperous Muslim state on the Volga which recieved its cultural nourishment from the resplendent Abbasid Caliphate. It was a major trading center in Bolgar and had several cities prosperous from trade. Not to mention that they resisted the Kievan Rus instead of crumbling like the Khazars.

Well, look, we don't cater to personal preferences, if u like the Teutonic Knights, good for you, we're not including them. We don't make miracles, we can't crack the faction limit. So stop asking as to add factions on a whim.

Khanate of Transoxiana represents various dynasties which include the Qara-Khanids, the Khwarazmians, the Chagatai Khanate. Most important of all, its rich wealth and prosperity of the region supported powerful states in the past like the Samanids, the Saffirids, etc, etc. Even Timurlane had his capital in that region because it was wealthy. Moreover, Bukhara was an importnat Islamic city and even considered a holy one.

[Cousin Zoidfarb]

Unimportant for the ignorant exactly.

The teutonic order controlled a large amount of territory in the baltic at their peak.
The teutonic order's political state survived the middle ages and transformed itself, by various political manouvers into one of the most powerful states of modern times, Prussia.
The most famous conflicts by three of the factions already included in the mod (Poland, Lithuania and Novgorod) were against the teutonic order and not against the HRE.
I agree The Volga Bulgars had a rich state and were a great cultural center but in this time frame, short-lived due to the mogols obliterating them from the world around 1220. A rebel province would do them justice.

Khanate of Transoxania? unrealistic, ahistorical, isn't realism the objective of this mod? But If the objective is a generic Transoxanian faction why don't you include the Timurids in this one, save one faction slot.

[Hody]

oh thx god bohemia has the go!

are you going to implements hussite war wagons btw, Ive seen in some modding tutorial the way how to create them.

[mayhem87]

( ---> to Hody, in czech language)
Nemyslim si že tam ty válečný vozy daj....už sem se na to ptal a nikdo mi neodpověděl ( samozřejmě anglicky ;-) ) . A taky si nejsem jistej že čeští válečníci budou v husitskym stylu, protože to začlo až roku 1408 (myslim) a to už bude skoro konec módu. Ale těšim se na to. Ať žijou země koruny české :)

[Tellos Athenaios]

The teutonic order controlled a large amount of territory in the baltic at their peak.
The teutonic order's political state survived the middle ages and transformed itself, by various political manouvers into one of the most powerful states of modern times, Prussia.
The most famous conflicts by three of the factions already included in the mod (Poland, Lithuania and Novgorod) were against the teutonic order and not against the HRE.

Of course the teutonic order was very important. But so were the Knights of Sint John (Hospitallers if you like that better), and more important than the former: so were the Templar Knights too. True, perhaps they never wielded such a great power as their Teutonic colleagues and rivals but the point remains: why should you have the Teutonic knights in per se. In fact, the Templar Knight played a far more significant role (mainly as a sort of international bank) in Medieval times.

If we're on to famous conflicts: well the conflicts between France and the Templars Knights are quite famous too. And the only true conflict between the Crusader states and their Muslim neighbours eventually turned out to be (for the most part) conflicts between the Muslims and the Templar Knights.

If I may continue your line of thought (that one about being erased from history): didn't the forces of Novgorod, Poland and Lithuania eventually simply erase the order from the map?

Now, IMO: there is no reason to maintain that the order definitely needs to be in as a seperate faction. However, it would be very good idea to include them as a Guild (which is exactly what they were, just a very powerful one that's all).

Btw, I'm rather curious about your Prussia statement.

And on a side note: if there should be any change in map make up, I'd suggest you do something about the Turks. AFAIK they weren't exactly... united?

[Bakma]

...
And on a side note: if there should be any change in map make up, I'd suggest you do something about the Turks. AFAIK they weren't exactly... united?

as you can see this is a map of turkic empires and the yellow empire is the seljuk empire and in the game they represant the turks in the early time period.

So i think the map which kataphraktoi postet is acceptable

[Tellos Athenaios]

The point is: officially all that belonged to the Sultan of Bagdad; de facto most emirs were independent. Just about since the day the first Seldjuk leader to controll such a large empire died the whole area was the stake of many, many smaller and larger succesion wars. Amin Maalouf once wrote a book in which he described the Crusades from an Muslim point of view, and according to the sources he used it was the fact that the Muslim world was so utterly devided that allowed for the Crusade's succes and persistence.

Btw, if you look closely you'll see I used the word 'if'.

[Baldwin of Jerusalem]

Im just wondering if everyone in the team was impressed as I was with the quality of unit skins in the vanilla release. I found them to be much better than RTW's initial releases, which were absolutely crying out to be modded in every conceivable way. Units like armoured sergeants and steppe cavalry look to be straight out of the history books as far as I can tell. To that end, how much are you going to change unit appearances? Im obviously not asking for an early preview or anything, Im just wondering if re-skinning is going to feature as prominently in MTR as it did in RTW. My only real complaint with them is that they are perhaps a little bright but that would be easily remedied. I ask this because with all the new factions proposed and because all of the units have multiple appearances due to armour upgrades now being visible on the battlefield, it could end up being a stupendous amount of work.

[Sahran]

Unimportant for the ignorant exactly.

The teutonic order controlled a large amount of territory in the baltic at their peak.
The teutonic order's political state survived the middle ages and transformed itself, by various political manouvers into one of the most powerful states of modern times, Prussia.
The most famous conflicts by three of the factions already included in the mod (Poland, Lithuania and Novgorod) were against the teutonic order and not against the HRE.
I agree The Volga Bulgars had a rich state and were a great cultural center but in this time frame, short-lived due to the mogols obliterating them from the world around 1220. A rebel province would do them justice.

Khanate of Transoxania? unrealistic, ahistorical, isn't realism the objective of this mod? But If the objective is a generic Transoxanian faction why don't you include the Timurids in this one, save one faction slot.

I just want to make a point that by insulting the team and insinuating that their decisions are completely unrealistic and ahistorical, you are eroding away at any sort of argument you could try and hold against them.

Everyone can interpret history and the importance of certain groups over another differently. Whereas in RTW the only serious debate was held amongst the divided barbarian tribes and groups like Parthia or the Carthaginians were obvious choices, amongst the terribly divided political map of Eurasia and Africa, it's a lot more difficult. You have your views, they have theirs. Just because you hold a different one does not make yours correct and their wrong, and neither is the reverse. This is their mod, their historical decision was made to omit the Teutons. They are not saying they weren't important, but in their view, the selection of the Volga-Bulgars or Transoxanian was more critical for the 31-faction limit than the Teutons. While you should debate and argue for their inclusion, you should not act like a know-it-all and treat them with contempt for their decision to exclude them.


And what really gets my goad is people like you saying that a generic Transoxanian faction would be fine, but demanding the greatest of divvying up of generic European Powers. Others will come along and say that We must include every major Northern-Italian city, but can just lump the Moors or Turks into some big unruly grouping because of their damned nationalism. While I admit there is logic in the inclusion of the Teutons, I dislike the idea that we can just do an ahistorical and bland generalization of a Muslim or Orthodox faction, but can never do so to a European power. The Khwarazmians played a large part in the affairs of the Mongol's arrival, and just because it doesn't involve the history of Europe doesn't mean it shouldn't be included (if not for the Khwarazmian's actions towards the Mongol Ambassador/Merchants, it's possible we would have seen a far later Mongol Invasion, or no Mongol Invasion at all.). Those more knowledgeable than I can and those on the team can testify to their importance in the region and to the historical development of the Middle East, and even through it, Europe.

[Cousin Zoidfarb]

I just want to make a point that by insulting the team and insinuating that their decisions are completely unrealistic and ahistorical, you are eroding away at any sort of argument you could try and hold against them.

Everyone can interpret history and the importance of certain groups over another differently. Whereas in RTW the only serious debate was held amongst the divided barbarian tribes and groups like Parthia or the Carthaginians were obvious choices, amongst the terribly divided political map of Eurasia and Africa, it's a lot more difficult. You have your views, they have theirs. Just because you hold a different one does not make yours correct and their wrong, and neither is the reverse. This is their mod, their historical decision was made to omit the Teutons. They are not saying they weren't important, but in their view, the selection of the Volga-Bulgars or Transoxanian was more critical for the 31-faction limit than the Teutons. While you should debate and argue for their inclusion, you should not act like a know-it-all and treat them with contempt for their decision to exclude them.


And what really gets my goad is people like you saying that a generic Transoxanian faction would be fine, but demanding the greatest of divvying up of generic European Powers. Others will come along and say that We must include every major Northern-Italian city, but can just lump the Moors or Turks into some big unruly grouping because of their damned nationalism. While I admit there is logic in the inclusion of the Teutons, I dislike the idea that we can just do an ahistorical and bland generalization of a Muslim or Orthodox faction, but can never do so to a European power. The Khwarazmians played a large part in the affairs of the Mongol's arrival, and just because it doesn't involve the history of Europe doesn't mean it shouldn't be included (if not for the Khwarazmian's actions towards the Mongol Ambassador/Merchants, it's possible we would have seen a far later Mongol Invasion, or no Mongol Invasion at all.). Those more knowledgeable than I can and those on the team can testify to their importance in the region and to the historical development of the Middle East, and even through it, Europe.

I think they drew first blood.
Why are you mad at me? they are the ones that put in the generic 'Khanate of Transoxania', in previous posts I was for putting the Kharezmians in and stated that Iberian and Italian factions were overrepresented. At least a generic Transoxania is better than nothing at all.

[Miloshus]

I dont know about you, but i never heard of transoxiania.
There are many other medieval factions more important than Transoxiania (like arfrisco said: burgundy, genoa, TO, ) ...

[tito]

hello?
Are you ok for an other african factio like sonkaI empire with tombocto as capital?
And for the map can you put a part of india and island as the rome total realism version
thank for you answer
And sorry for my poor english!