The Org bug list - ONLY post bugs here

[screwtype]

Inquisitors are felt to be unbalanced in the sense that they enjoy killing heirs, and that they'll attempt to root out heresy on a crusade (which historically was pointless as the crusade cleansed you of sin), causing the entire army to desert...

Don't know whether they actually enjoy killing generals, but they do it too much, according to many posters

[ShellShock]

I've seen other people report this.

When I use mouse button 4 (free look mode) the camera just spins continuously anti-clockwise. I thought this might be because of my old mouse, so I've bought a new one - a Logitech MX518 gaming mouse.

Guess what - the problem still happens.

I assume that this is a bug with the game, and hope it gets fixed in the patch. Use to work fine in RTW.

[Ralek]

Great work compiling this list Sapi. I just want to address and refine a few of them:

Archer Issues - Archers refuse to obey your orders with respect to targets and seemingly enjoy charging the enemies you've ordered them to shoot. This seems to happen more with missile cavalry, but sometimes one or two men out of the unit will charge straight at the enemy to engage meele combat instead of shooting as ordered, and others will just run around in circles. In addition, archers sometimes take forever to fire as a group and thus only get one full volley off against charging enemies. Archers also operate too far in front of their army to be saved by friendly cavalry in the event of an enemy charge.

The above is mostly correct, but I've seen the targeting of archers reported as a bug on several threads when it is actually a design feature which is covered by the advisor on the battle tutorial. I'll explain:

Actual created groups (by using the group command) work differently than multiple selection of several units. When you have a group selected and give an attack order, you aren't actually telling all the units in the group to attack that unit, you are telling the group to engage the enemy line at that position. Look at this battle formation example:

1 2 3

A B C

If 1, 2 and 3 are enemy units and A, B and C are your archer units. If you have ABC grouped and click on any of the enemy units, A will fire at 1, B will fire at 2 and C will fire at 3. In order to have them engage a SINGLE unit on the enemy line, you have to ungroup them first. This is intentional. For achers this is not very useful, but it is damned useful if your ABC group were melee units and you wanted to engage the enemy line while maintaining your own line cohesion.
The other reported problem with archers targetting is leaving fire at will enabled. If you have fire at will enabled, the archer's AI will take over your targetting orders and fire at the target they want. If you want to control who your archers target, you need to turn fire at will off.

The rest of the reported problems with archers (taking forever to aim, missile cavalry attacking in melee instead of shooting, etc) are all apparently real bugs and not design decisions.

Relocating your capital causes errors in merchant earnings.

I'll expand this one a bit. When you first start a campaign, the resource trading is calculated correctly. After you load the game, it fails to correctly calculate the distance to the capital, resetting ALL resources values to their base value, with NO regard to distance to capital. If you relocate your capital, the game will be forced to recalculate distance to the capital. Workaround for now is to relocate your capital back and forth immediately following loading a game.

Again, great work compiling this list and here's hoping they address the issues soon(tm)

[rosscoliosis]

Another one I just noticed that I haven't seen reported yet. Pretty darn minor, but I have one unit of Dismounted Feudal Knights with 64 knights in it instead of 60... If placed inside a castle it shows up under re-train, but is always greyed out. It also shows 64 inside the actual battle mode. I'll see if it's still that way (ie: haven't killed any of extras off yet) and take a screenshot.
Also, not so much of a bug as an irritating lacking feature is the ability to precisely change the direction of a unit without setting up the actual line formation again. Even just being able to right-click + drag rotate grouped units without it COMPLETELY ruining the formations would be great. Even to just be able to do this in the deploy troops phase would be great! I've been waiting for that to be in the interface since Shogun, haha. ;-)
Now if someone tells me that's in the game already and I've just somehow overlooked it all these years... I'm going to slap myself silly, haha.

[magnum]

Did a quick scan through the thread and didn't see this. Manual states that you can covert between castles and cities up through City <-> Fortress level. Game stops allowing conversion one level below that though. For a quick check on this, Cordoba starts the game as a Minor City (in game designation, population is the same as for what the manual lists as a City) and you do not have the option of converting to a castle.

[sapi]

@ralek, thanks for the clarification in the merchant issue - i've quoted you.

As to the archer one, i understand what you're saying, but i don't buy it. To begin with, my archers dont' fire evenly across the enemy line, as they would if that was working properly. Secondly, i've never noticed my infantry strictly keeping to that order, so i'm sure the archers shouldnt' either.

having said that, i now believe that the problem is to do with having the fire at will command have a higher priority than the manual commands, stopping the manual ones from workign effectively.

I've also decided to move the issue with two handed weapons into the major bugs section, as it's really irritating to have major units being completely ineffective due to it :(

I'll probably send this off later today to ensure that ca can get started on it tomorrow (they're actually on my time, fancy that :D ), so if anyone has any additions please be quick ;)

---

Categorised List (in order of priority by category, but not within the category; ie. major bugs should be dealt with first, then minor gameplay bugs, then minor irritants, but they all have equal priority within the category):

Major Bugs (need immediate attention)
Passive AI bug - seemingly triggered by a lack of missile troops and thus prevalent in sieges, the AI has a tendency to stand still and allow its troops to get shot to pieces by archers that could have been easily eliminated by a charge

Siege lag bug - the game lags severely when the ai has only one set of ladders/attempts to only use the one set; or when the ai attempts to use one major method to enter the castle; or from a myriad of other factors. Whatever they are, it needs to be looked at.

Cavalry stop charging when the first man hits, robbing the charge of its impact. Sometimes they don't lower their lances at all, but instead just charge in with swords drawn.

Units have cohesion problems - often, only the first ten or so men of a unit will attack, with the rest hanging back and only filling the gaps caused by casualties.

Archer Issues - Archers refuse to obey your orders with respect to targets (one suggestion is that this is to do with the fire at will command having a higher priority than your manual orders) and seemingly enjoy charging the enemies you've ordered them to shoot. This seems to happen more with missile cavalry, but sometimes one or two men out of the unit will charge straight at the enemy to engage meele combat instead of shooting as ordered, and others will just run around in circles. In addition, archers sometimes take forever to fire as a group and thus only get one full volley off against charging enemies. Archers also operate too far in front of their army to be saved by friendly cavalry in the event of an enemy charge.

Passive Friendly AI - your units won't always react to threats and will often just sit there being slaughtered instead of turning around and fighting

Papal Bugs - there is inconsistent excommunication, and the papacy doesn't seem to be able to distinguish between the aggressor and the defender. It's also been suggested that it shouldn't be an act of war to attack another catholic faction's army that is in your territory without leave.

Armies (both friendly and ai) occasionally spawn on inaccessible cliffs.

Infantry still have trouble navigating and fighting on walls and often get stuck with half the unit on the wall, and half off it, making movement next to impossible.

The AI can't deal with longbow stakes properly, and will either line up before them to get shot or bizarrely change formation to a deep column and stand to one side of the stakes.

Troops in loose formation can better resist cavalry charges and are otherwise inexplicibly superior to those in tight formation.

It is very hard to accurately place troops in cities, castles and forts. As a matter of fact, it is very hard to place units at all in them!

Relocating your capital causes errors in merchant earnings. According to reports, "When you first start a campaign, the resource trading is calculated correctly. After you load the game, it fails to correctly calculate the distance to the capital, resetting ALL resources values to their base value, with NO regard to distance to capital. If you relocate your capital, the game will be forced to recalculate distance to the capital. Workaround for now is to relocate your capital back and forth immediately following loading a game." (thanks ralek)

Men desert from crusades far too easily, either after a small change in course or after sailing around Spain.

There is no weather option for non-settlement maps in multiplayer.

Giving orders to groups sometimes results in only one or two units obeying that order and the rest standing around having a smoko.

Inquisitors are felt to be unbalanced in the sense that they enjoy killing heirs, and that they'll attempt to root out heresy on a crusade (which historically was pointless as the crusade cleansed you of sin), causing the entire army to desert.

Troops with two handed weapons (eg. billmen, varangian guard) don't seem to fight well in melee(at all, in fact - from what i can see they'll only make a kill if they're attacked and the enemy fails to make one), but work effectively on the opening charge.

Multiplayer balancing issues with musketeers and cavalry.


Minor Bugs (gameplay issues)
Siege battles in multi-walled castles automatically end when you run out of ammo for your siege weapons despite the walls being linked and thus infantry being able to get through.

Agents and ships get stuck into loops on the campaign map, generally involving 'get on, sail somewhere, get off, sail somewhere, get back on, sail to place one, get off, repeat'

Men sometimes run for a corner of the walls in siege battles without player orders.

Archers seemingly do no damage in heavy rain.

Sometimes crusades don't move anywhere.

Pathfinding for units chasing routers is terrible.

Ships sometimes have unlimited movement.

Longbow stakes can be deployed in fortresses to massacre cavalry.

Faction missions sometimes state that they were completed by another faction when they weren't.

Units have pathfinding issues in attacking artillery from the front.

In diplomacy, ai sometimes counter offer with the exact same thing that you offered.

Men are auto-placed on sections of wall that are cut off thanks to a previous battle destroying sections of the wall.

Cavalry or infantry will not attack a unit that is attempting to climb a ladder that is currently busy with another unit.

The gatehouse is reported as taken when you are defending on a siege. This is not the case, as the gates are still locked and the enemy does not attempt to go through them.

Missile units have difficulty firing on units inside the castle while on the wall, sometimes they will not fire at all.

Ordering more then one unit off the walls during a siege, will result in them getting stuck in the tower and unable to do anything, even though it still displays them as moving towards the destination.

Princesses often gain useless ancillaries that are designed for family members such as Governors and Generals.

The 'bad taxman' trait is awarded in castles, where you can't adjust the tax rate.

Master guilds don't award basic guildhouse bonuses to agents trained in their city (so it is actually more effective to train an agent at a city with a basic guildhouse than one with a master, provided you have a master one elsewhere)

Some people are having a bug where a crusading army gets stuck on the bridge by venice once another faction takes the crusade target. The army stays there forever until someone attacks it.

Sometimes the mongols fail to appear.

Ballista towers fire during a siege despite being destroyed by sabotage

Muskateers only fire effectively when in a formation two lines deep.

In multiplayer, map names are shown in the host's language rather than that of the player.


Minor Bugs (irritants)
Byzantine archers have a skinning issue on their arms.

Holding space to see unit positions doesn't stick, but instead flashes on and off.

There are occasionally texture issues on siege equipment, stopping them from showing up

Arrows hit the gates as if they're in closed position when they're open due to a spy

Faction heir doesn't return to king's son once he comes of age, but stays with the brother/whatever

Town square flags don't change to reflect the current owner.

Units change formation on rough terrain and don't change back

The 'let the ai control these reinforcements' option doensn't stay checked when you browse unit stats, army composition etc.

Byzantine spearmen are too weak in comparison to those of other factions.

Gothic knights appear to be too weak.

Crossbowmen are too powerful and the ai seems to use them far too much in its armies

The 'start battle' option obscures the unit description card

There are sound bugs (see post #60 of the Org bugs thread)

Battle replay files sometimes show completely different battles to what actually happened

Agents can't pass armies on the campaign map

With a large number of spies in a city, the chance to open the gates in the event of a siege will go beyond 100%.

Catapults (the men, not the weapon) are overpowered

Experience bonuses are sometimes not awarded correctly (see post #86 of the Org bugs thread)

Free Company heavy Infantry reply with 'heavy calvary' when you click on them

Muslim archers will join a sicilian crusade against muslims

Native archers have the peasant picture in the stats screen

Pope names seem odd - perhaps the incorrect file is being referenced?

Holding mouse4 to activate free look mode sometimes results in the camera simply spinning anti-clockwise.


Bugs that aren't common/cannot be repeated/are probably due to hardware
'm2tw has to close because of an unspecified error' sometimes occurs.

There is an invisible general bug (posted by rothe, the Org buglist post #19)

Family trees sometimes only show the faction leader (Org buglist, post #24)

Game seemingly stuck in a loop (probable hardware issue) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72147)

AI armies disappearing (Org buglist, post #30)

Crusades unjoinable (Org buglist, post #41)

Ransomed general 'floating on water' and blocking land bridge (Org buglist, post #42)

Faction switching bug (Org buglist, post #92)

Game hanging issues (Org buglist, post #105)

Some units have incorrect numbers of men in them (Org buglist, post #124)

[gc49]

I've got a major Siege slowdown issue.

My system handles everything fine. I can assault a city/fortress without difficulty, and the initial defence starts our fine, but about 5 minutes into a siege defence, and from memory always after I issue a sortie to drive an undefended group of ladders or something from the walls, I end up with unplayable slowdown (about a second every 5 second to 10 seconds). Graphic settings make no difference, nore does anythign else I try.

System should be fine for this, particularly on lowest settings (where I ended up as mentioned above, to no avail), and I've had no problem in assaulting (even with more units in the battle), only in defence.

[sapi]

Yeh - it's an issue with the ai that i've mentioned in the major bugs section. Still a bummer though :(

[Bullethead]

ok screwtype - thanks for the info. Added (both under major bugs).

On you list, I didn't see mention of the billmen and a number of other infantry units with 2-handed weapons being unable to fight cavalry. They can kill some if they charge them, but after that, there's some sort of animation problem where they never take a swing in melee combat, and thus never do any damage.

[sapi]

Troops with two handed weapons (eg. billmen, varangian guard) don't seem to fight well in melee(at all, in fact - from what i can see they'll only make a kill if they're attacked and the enemy fails to make one), but work effectively on the opening charge.

;) ...

[Vicarious]

I don't think this one has been covered by any of the bugs listed, allthough related:
In a siege battle, playing as the defender of a castle, I tried to rush my catapult through the gate to shoot at the advancing battering ram. But the catapult and its crew was somehow stuck in the gate, unable to fire. The men were on both sides of the gates, and wouldn't move anywhere when ordered.
There was also an advantage with this, so it could almost be used as a cheat: The enemy was unable to get the battering ram to the gate, neither could they destroy it or the crew. So the battering ram just stopped before the catapult, and the enemy were forced to used only towers and ladders to get into the castle.

After I had fought the enemy infantry off on the walls, I rushed out to take the cavalry too. When I opened the gate with another unit, my catapult was also relased and free to move again.

In the same battle one of the routing enemy units were also "trapped" in the castle walls. But I think that bug has been covered.

[sapi]

Considering that bugs are still cropping up, i'll delay posting it away for a day, so keep 'em coming.

[Lord Dazed & Confused]

I know the siege lag has already been mentioned with the one set of ladders thing, which I have experienced but I have noticed that lag also occurs when the AI if defending starts to pull back to the main square or the second ring of defences or if you are defending and do the same, the game will be happily running at 30fps then drop to 0fps for a split second then up to 30fps for about ten seconds and back down to 0fps again and carry’s on doing this until the end of the siege, . The trigger seems to be the minute the AI or your units move into the streets and is more obvious on large cities which would suggest a path finding problem or is it just these 93.71 NVIDIA drivers. I have recreated this in custom battles and happens on high or low detail and unit size and number of units also seems to make no difference.
Also I don't see the slow motion animations mentioned above, this happens regardless of unit detail or size or the amount of units on screen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im2tVDedB3g link to an example of the slow mo thing from CBR

[Von Nanega]

I found ona. When I was playing Spain, I had a night fighter General attack a stack of rebels. I clicked "Attempt night attack" and then the rebels retreated!! I went ahead to attack and the game froze. I reloaded and tried again. Same result. So the next time I withdrew from attack, and went at them the next turn. Got them then.

[Butcher]

I was under siege by the mogols, they got troops onto my walls which i routed. They fled thoruogh my gates, which opened for them and which then allowed the mongols to storm in. What was worse, was that it seemed to allow them to capture all the remaining gates.
They had no spy in, and the gates were seemingly under my control. Very annoying, I lost Acre cos of that. :(

[Oaty]

Well not to sure that's exactly what it is or a bug.

As England I had my king in Acre after a crusade. I looked at the settlement details and noticed instead of distance to capital penalty being 80 it is 30.

It appears the king can nearly kill the distance to capitol penalty. The only thing is he died and the penalty stayed at 30 percent.

So is this a bug or was the king causing a 50 percent reduction, and the bug is the 50 percent bonus staying after he dies.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I managed to take notes during the coarse of a few campaigns (Venice, Danes, Russia) and thought it would help to list them here since the .com has closed its bug thread. I tried to leave out the obvious bugs except if they differ slightly. I did read the thread but apologize if any have been mentioned.

Finally I listed some points which may or may not be bugs but would help to be corrected. Also I have images and more details for some of the problems.

CAMPAIGN
Campaign AI does not sufficiently garrison its frontier settlements or castles and its full stack armies stroll by when under seige.

Odd mouse cursur behavior eg don't always get the sword cursor displayed when selecting to attack rebels from a garrisoned army.

Loss of keyboard control after hibernation mode.

Danes have Russian accents.

Venice mounted sergents information scroll show empty "Abilities at a glance"

Battle engagement scroll when player reinforcements are available some overlayering occurs which prevents the clear display of the AI control checkbox.

Faction notices appear after their extermination. eg Faction reconciled notices appear after extermination and broken alliances notices even if both or one faction have been exterminated.

Bizarre and/or unobtainable missions. eg Council of Nobles such as send emissary to Venice to establish trade rights when you already have trade rights with them.

Receive an expired notice on a mission to annex settlement because another faction has taken control when this is clearly not the case.

No mission expired notice when faction heir requesting regicide mission and faction is later destroyed.

After merging and then retraining units you may have an unusual unit size.

Mongols may arrive in more than two waves. Have seen up to 15 stacks arrive from near Tbilisi.

Factions are much too willing to part with cities. eg for very low cost or even in exchange for traderights.

BATTLE

When attacking an enemy city with allied reinforcements and their ram breaks through you hear "Enemy rams are through our gates".

During triple speed can see Byzantine Infantry alternate 3 versions of armour.


BUGS OR IMPROVEMENTS

Assassins seem unusually inferior for some factions. Playing as Russia it is near impossible to train an assassin to a respectable level even with guilds where as playing as Venice nearly every assassin becomes a master.

Cities/Castles should turn rebel after sacking.

When asking French for trade right (no money) you get a reply "You enjoy holding us too ransom like this". This is a ridiculous agro response.

A worsen relations notice appearing when at war. Just how worse do you expect in war?

Portraits do not reflect age. eg heretic age 39 looks 79!

No diplomacy at VH levels. This is a real bummer.

When you open and then close the negotiation scroll (either because you changed your mind or you were just checking current treaties) is considered a failed negotiation leading to influence loss. Consider adding a close option without penalty rather than "end negotiation".

A failed negotiation/mission for an agent could lead to a total loss of influence/skill.

Battle control panel is clumsy to use and looks amateurish compared to RTW.

[Kraxis]

... most of those are gameplay issues. Post them in the other thread (what you would like in the patch).

[screwtype]

I was under siege by the mogols, they got troops onto my walls which i routed. They fled thoruogh my gates, which opened for them and which then allowed the mongols to storm in. What was worse, was that it seemed to allow them to capture all the remaining gates.
They had no spy in, and the gates were seemingly under my control. Very annoying, I lost Acre cos of that. :(

Hahaha, that IS pretty silly. It used to annoy the heck out me in RTW too when enemy units would route back to their city square even after you had taken the square, thus restarting the countdown! They should have routed off the map since they had lost the city.

IMO, units should not be able to route through city gates unless the gates are held by their own side, or unless the gates were already opened by a spy.

[Kraxis]

Gates should just have a lock you could set.

Naturally spies would negate that.

[screwtype]

... most of those are gameplay issues. Post them in the other thread (what you would like in the patch).

I disagree. Most of the things Nebuchadnezzar listed sound like genuine bugs to me.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

... most of those are gameplay issues. Post them in the other thread (what you would like in the patch).

I would agree that the last 3 items on the list are gameplay issues and a couple of others are uncertain (bugs or features classification) but I believe the rest do infact belong here.

[Kraxis]

Oh well, I guess I just got influenced by the first (point) and the entire last paragraph.

[sapi]

I've added in what i feel to be the actual bugs from Nebuchadnezzar's list, and i'm about to email it to the address Palamedes gave me.

Thanks for all your help guys; here's hoping most of them will get fixed :D

[troymclure]

not sure if it's an actual bug but i feel that Denmark needs some work. Most specifically i would make the path down from their main city into europe and the path into the rest of scandinavia shorter. Atm Denmark is almost always a power in europe probably because it tends to expand into the rebel provinces near it at the start. If it would focus on scandanavia first this would hopefully cause a more historically accurate Denmark to come about.

[Agapeus]

It is about the cavalry charge :

had some similar problems but now i do it "my way".

i group 3 cav units on two lines and tight. then order the formation to move just behind the enemy lines. when close enough i give them "run" . and they do !!! smashing any unit to pieces ( if u dont believe me try it )
when in the back of enemy lines i order then now in the opposite direction ; same : they run again though the lines - battle over !

and that without using "charge"

[Fridgebadger]

User defined keys

I've tried adding hotkeys for the three game speeds, as I did in RTW, and though in the list of keys in the options menu it appears they have been set, they have no effect in game. I thought it may be because I was in the middle of a campaign, but I've since started a new one and they're still not working...

[Darius]

So I'm toying with the idea of launching a crusade and just for the heck of it have one of my somewhat decent newly adopted french general raise a nice army and have it go to crusade. I then finally stop to think just what happens if I click "Abandon Crusade" as I never thought of a situation where that would be necessary. So I saved the game and clicked it. Nothing.

Hmm looks like my general got +1 Chivalry for joining it, ok well back on track. So I have him rejoin the crusade...wait a minute, he just got more chivalry? Well looks like the "Ruler" trait is increased towards the chivalrous side each time you join a crusade, regardless of whether you finish said crusade or not. So I figure what the hell lets see what else may happen and BAM Peter the hermit is in my retinue, sweet. Spam it a few more times and my general is now known as a Saint and the Ruler trait grants +5 Chivalry +3 Authority. Not bad for never having to leave home to fight the infidels.

[Whoz'onE]

Sounds like a prime candidate for the bug-fix patch list. Fun though :)

[Spartiate]

Must work with Jihads also then. Did you do this in the same turn or on consecutive turns?